Nashville Guys?? Is the music scene tough?

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 4 Dec 2004 6:58 pm

Just talked to a very young guitarist who spent 6 mo. in Nashville. He relayed stories about seeing GREAT players playing in bars for whatever tips they could scrape together. Good musicians playing 4 sets sometimes for less than 20 bucks.Forget that crap man.. I'd take a wood chipper to my axes first...bob

Chris Lasher · Post by **Chris Lasher** » 4 Dec 2004 8:08 pm

This is the most depressing thread I've read.

So how on earth did the studio guys (Paul, Mike, Dan, John, Robby, Gary, Tommy) make it into the studio? And is that a totally different world?[This message was edited by Chris Lasher on 04 December 2004 at 08:10 PM.]

Pete Grant · Post by **Pete Grant** » 4 Dec 2004 8:44 pm

Ask Paul how long it took him to be the top studio player. He could play circles around most anyone (IMHO) in town in the early Seventies. That was _long_ before he got to where he is now.

Gee, ask me how many times I played the Opry without getting paid.

Chris Lasher · Post by **Chris Lasher** » 4 Dec 2004 8:58 pm

I've got a copy of "Nervous Breakdown" and the liner notes of the CD say that it was recorded in the late 70s. I thought he was just in his teens, then, though. Looking at his discography on his website, it looks like he got embedded in the studios by 1987.

Oh, and how many times did you play the Opry without getting paid?

Chris Haston · Post by **Chris Haston** » 4 Dec 2004 10:16 pm

The thing is, no one is going to become succesful(what is success anyway?) in a short period of time. I've been here for four years, have a day job, and I'm slowly getting to where I want to be. I've done a bunch of cool music-related things since moving here, and I see my opportunities far clearer than I did when I first moved here from Michigan. There's many factors involved in reaching the point where one can earn a living playing music in Nashville. I can say that I've learned a ton, and had some great experiences here.
side note; Chris Lasher, do you know Matt Stolson in Athens with his Emmons S10 pp?[This message was edited by Chris Haston on 04 December 2004 at 10:19 PM.]

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 4 Dec 2004 11:05 pm

Wow, you guys are freakin' me out. I don't get out too much anymore. I'm glad I've got a nice day job with medical insurance/paid vacation/telecommuting/, etc., and just play on the weekends for fun. Sounds like it must be tough out there in the trenches.

I moved to Nashville from different places several times years ago, and I always landed an artist gig after a night or two of hanging out and sitting in. I guess it's not like that anymore. Back then it was no auditions, no resumes, just the bandleader hearing you play somewhere.

C#[This message was edited by Cal Sharp on 04 December 2004 at 11:07 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 4 Dec 2004 11:18 pm

I'm not sure what its like in Nashville but if you want to live as a musician in NYC and you can be scared off by competition and poverty then you should skip it.

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Bob
intonation help

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 04 December 2004 at 11:33 PM.][This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 04 December 2004 at 11:36 PM.]

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 4 Dec 2004 11:39 pm

Pete said

Gee, ask me how many times I played the Opry without getting paid.

Gee, I played the opry maybe a few hundred times, and each time I got paid. I think something like $25 per show. And many weeks the three opry shows were the *only* pay for the week. And in order to actually get the check I needed to join the Nashville musicians union which meant I needed to resign from the San Jose musicians union and pay the Nashville initiation fee (maybe $600) so I only actually got paid after the first 30 shows or so. Of course back then one could live on $75 a week. Not well, but I happen to like peanut butter, so it wasn't bad. And I got to listen to Paul Franklin play every night I wasn't on the road and meet Hal and Weldon and a bunch of other great players. Yeah it was hard, but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

If you are into security and money (or fame and fortune) forget about Nashville, or simply working as a musician, because chances are you aren't going to find anything like that. But as Bob says, being a musician does have it's rewards.

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www.tyack.com

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 5 Dec 2004 12:01 am

The first time I worked the Opry the pay was about $14, I think, and I signed my check over to Lynn Owsley to cover some long distance phone calls to my girl friend back home in Indiana. Her name was Lynn, too, oddly enough.

I almost lost my guitar onstage - I had a black Emmons, and so did Sonny, Hal & Weldon. I never worked there without being paid; but you had to sign the time card.

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 5 Dec 2004 4:54 am

Yeah, "making it" nowadays is a slim proposition- I mean, you need to weigh 125 pounds, LOOK GREAT and YOUNG, mime well with a cordless mic, be able to dance, and/or have already made it in the past...so put down those picks and bars and get to the gym! Forget the speed picking and chord inversions- start pumpin' iron, bleach them teeth, get an '80's haircut - and while you are out, pick up a realtor's license or a law degree so you having something to fall back on to feed your family when your "flavor of the month" fades...

YMMV.

with love from the Bitter Curmudgeon of the North.

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff.

Joaquin Murphey solos book info and some free stuff : <A HREF="http://www.johnmcgann.com/joaquin.html

" TARGET=_blank>http://www.johnmcgann.com/joaquin.html

</A> [This message was edited by John McGann on 05 December 2004 at 05:02 AM.]

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 5 Dec 2004 5:25 am

It's ok if you don't mind putting your gear up at a pawned shop sometimes to eat.I know lots of Preachers who sells life insurance to make a living!Just a thought!OH OH,now i've gone and done it huh. farris

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 6 Dec 2004 5:10 am

Dan, I didn't know you lived in the San Jose area. I lived there until moving to Nashville.
Chuck, we "road" players only get to play the same dozen songs a night with an artist gig. If we are lucky, 120 dates a year. So to keep our chops up, we take Lower Broadway gigs and get to play for a few hours and have fun (if you call hanging out in a bar fun). Are you going to give up some hours at your job to let someone else come in to learn your job? If you have a steady weekend gig, are you going to let another player take your place because he doesn't have a gig? If so, you are a very generous man. Rock on!Road players are scrambling for every gig they can get too.
Peace to all, and gigs to all that can get them
Dave

Buddy Blackmon · Post by **Buddy Blackmon** » 6 Dec 2004 6:25 am

If you move to Nashville, be the best player you can be and be prepared to kiss a lot of asses to get work. LOL!

I always liked the Roy Orbison theory: "Bring me your biggest and your best ass, and I'll just kiss THAT one!."

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 6 Dec 2004 7:16 am

Buddy,you are in a great state,GEORGIA,Lots of places to play there.Don't know about money,but always places to play.I spent 2yrs.in DALTON,we traveled all over that state,never seen as many old busses in my life.nothing to pull up to a place to play,and see 4 to 6 groups,even at country churchs,used to wonder,why,they would book so many groups at one time.split 100.00 between 5 groups.huh,they play auction barns,all kind of places in GA., i enjoyed those 2yrs.but sure traveled a lots.nothing to set up 3to 6 times in one wk end.Enjoy yourself in GEORGIA. FARRIS

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 6 Dec 2004 8:52 am

This thread makes me really appreciate all the sacrifices made by the PSG Great Ones who put the steel pickin' and music together that I've been listenin' to for 50 years.

A Great Big THANKS To All of ya!!!!!![This message was edited by Ray Minich on 06 December 2004 at 08:53 AM.]

Jim Hartley · Post by **Jim Hartley** » 6 Dec 2004 12:09 pm

Cal, I love your website, it brings back alot of memories. I spent eight years on the road, six with Del Reeves and three of those with Big Jim Webb in the band. With the Big'un around, you know there were some stories to tell.

This thread contains so many negative thoughts, I thought I might add a few positive ones. I worked the Opry many times and I always got paid. Yes, I had to join the union, but I lived in Nashville, so why would I not want to be in that union. I had the opportunity to play in every single state, all over Canada and even went to Europe four times. I have pictures to show my grandkids of places all over the world. No, not everything was great, but I know some plumbers,electricians,carpenters etc. whose lives are not perfect. Maybe I was one of the lucky ones or maybe I didn't stay on the road long enough to get burnt out, but I look back on my road days as good ones.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 6 Dec 2004 12:28 pm

I didn't want to speak negatively of the musicians union. After all, where else would all those accordian players work other than as union officials? What I objected to was having to resign from the musician's union in San Jose (a GREAT union at the time) and join the Nashville union. Just about every other musician's union in the county (even LA) allowed musicians to transfer, but not Nashville.

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www.tyack.com

Jim Hartley · Post by **Jim Hartley** » 6 Dec 2004 4:37 pm

Dan,

Sorry, I didn't read your first reply correctly. I thought you meant you wanted to stay in the other union. It's been so many years now, but I thought that I had transferred to Nashville. I guess not. Anyway, I loved working the Opry, wish I could do it again.

Jim

Chuck Cusimano · Post by **Chuck Cusimano** » 6 Dec 2004 6:04 pm

Steve, This has always been, (and will always be ) "SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST" if you move to Nashville, to play Steel on a full time basis, You are really going to have to be FIT. I think you stated you had another sourse of income and weren't looking to JUST play Steel for a living. You might get a chance to set up your horn, and show the folks what you can do. I think someone there will see potential when it is in front of them, and you may well be able to work some, but I still believe there is way more Steel players looking for work there than there are bands looking for Steel players. Nashville has always drawn Musicians (like moths)to the "flame" For sure it has almost always been the Meca for discovery. Austin Texas draws a lot of pickers there also, and I've got friends that live there, and from what I hear Austin is Texas's answer to Nashville. In the old days of Nashville, if you could sing or play better than just pretty good, you could get a job eventually. Now, it seems that they are looking for movie star looks (Male, or Female) that can do something good enough that it can be "Fixed in the Mix". This is a lot more true for singers, but it's the same with road pickers for the "Stars". A fat guy like me with 30 years experience don't stand a chance to be seen on Television. If the audience wanted to see a fat, bald, 56 year old fart, they would stay home and talk to their dads. I know of a case (not sayin' who) where a GREAT guitar player was working for a BIG name act, and he lost his job because "He didn't look good in the Videos". When I listen to the radio (classic country) I can't see the
singer, or the band. I don't care what they look like! Can the singer sing, and can the band play? Ahhhh! Those were the good ole days! Dave, I wasn't meaning to imply that Road musicians were bad for getting a chance to pick, I am asking, Where dose a new-bie go to be heard? A singer can usually get to set in and sing a song or two. But, what about Steve, a self proclamed beginer of the steel? where can he set up and jam? If you live there you must have some sugestions. And Yes, if I had a gig there, and needed to be gone with my Band, I'd let someone sub for me. I would even let a deserving picker take a night or two, if he needed the money to SURVIVE, I would rather do that than LOAN him the money. If he took the job away from me because he played better, then we're right back where we were. SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 6 Dec 2004 6:25 pm

I wouldn't trade the 3 years I spent in Nashville for anything. I also am glad I left when I did.....

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www.tyack.com

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 6 Dec 2004 8:07 pm

Thanks for the comment, Jim. I worked with Del a couple of times, subbing for Big Jim. Del almost killed Faron once. He was riding back to Nashville on the bus with us and had Faron laughing so hard he was red-faced, doubled up on the floor, couldn't get his breath. We thought he was a goner. Del was the funniest SOB I've ever seen.

Yeah, there have been a lot of negative comments in this thread, most of it just hearsay, with a paucity of input from real live Nashville musicians. I'm like Dan, I wouldn't trade it for anything, and I'm glad I had enough sense to switch careers before it was too late. About the only middle-aged Nashville steel players making a living just playing are the established instrumentalists and the studio cats, and I'm neither. There's a lot of young, hot players down on Broadway working for $20 + tips _still_ waiting for some star's bandleader to wander in and offer them a gig.

I've worked Broadway off and on since the 70's. 1997 was probably my busiest year there. I played 268 live gigs in-town that year, almost all of them on Broadway, at every club except Wolfy's. The average per gig was $37.17.[This message was edited by Cal Sharp on 06 December 2004 at 08:43 PM.]

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 6 Dec 2004 9:36 pm

Cal is almost as good a writer as he is a steel player, and that is pretty damn good.

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James Pennebaker · Post by **James Pennebaker** » 6 Dec 2004 11:28 pm

My story is not typical I'm sure. I came here from Texas in '93. I already had a job lined up with Lee Roy Parnell since we were old friends from years of playing around Texas. He'd been trying to get me out here for years before I finally made the move. The first day I got to town I was playing acoustic guitar on a record he was cutting. I thought I was in tall cotton and I guess I kind of was. Went on to cut 5 or 6 records with him as well as for many other artist but nothing like the big boys. I spent almost 7 years with Parnell until his career started sliding downhill and I had to look for greener pastures. I've worked for a slew of other artist since. I have a lot of friends who've lived here for 20 plus years or more and some have been very successful. Most are Texas transplant's whom I'd worked with for years back home. All of them were very helpful to me and still are. Being a utility guy, I was probably able to get more work than if I just played one instrument. Still, no matter who you know, it takes several years to break in. I have never done a great deal of session work though it has been better some years than others. In the past 5 years it has really slacked off. I've always had to make the bulk of my living by getting on a bus. Yes, it's tough. I've seen some really lean times but I've alays managed to survive. You have to keep at it and never give up though there have been many times when I've thought about it. I've been a road manager, a band leader, a guitar player, fiddle player, steel player, etc. I've been lucky. I'm just a respectable player at best, definitely not a virtuoso. A lot of it has to do with your personality. How you get along with others. How you "do the hang." That can go along way for you. It's not for the faint of heart. You have to believe that it's what God put you here to do. I basically am not any good at much else. I fill in the gaps by doing demo tracks for songwriters and publishers in my home studio and all kind of other stuff. It'can be very heartbreaking at times. The competition is tough. It's great to have chops but it also helps to have a style that people know you for and will hire you because the like what you do. Regarding the Opry, I've played it more times than I can count and always have been paid. It's a Union job. Opry wages are up to about $90 for a performance. You usually do two performances a night. If you happen to play on the TV portion the pay is much more. It's always a thrill to play the Opry.
JP

Bill Myrick · Post by **Bill Myrick** » 7 Dec 2004 2:24 am

Sounds a lot like the advice I was once given about the used car business---"If you want to end up with a small fortune--start out with a large one" !!!