A Runaway Train of Misinformation

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 1 Dec 2004 11:46 am

When the Campbell Brothers came to my town, they actually invited me and my friend Larry Jones to jam with them after the show. What a gracious band of awesome musicians! That was an experience I'll never forget.

Chuck Campbell is probably still too young to be in the Hall of Fame, but I have no doubt that someday he will be inducted.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Post by **Joey Ace** » 1 Dec 2004 12:24 pm

Roy,
I think the only "CONFIDENCE/NO CONFIDENCE" vote that matters is attendance at the convention.

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 1 Dec 2004 12:37 pm

Joey,
Good Point!

Dave Robbins · Post by **Dave Robbins** » 1 Dec 2004 12:57 pm

Just want to know:

"Who all" is on the HOF board?

"How" did they get there?

Can I or anyone else be a HOF "board member",if "no" then why not or is that decided between select few?

How long is their term?

Does the "personal life" of a "board member" come into play in being considered for the position of "board member?"

What "qualifies" them to be there?

Are they a "qualified musician" or just someone who has made their living off of musicians?

Why does a handful of board members decide who the steel guitar community honours?

And...what's to keep anyone from starting another "Hall of Fame" elsewhere and why not?

If the selection (or "none selection" as the case may be) of a Hall of Fame inductee is not favorable to you then "do not support the governing body of the Hall of Fame!"
In other words, just don't buy the products offered by those in charge. Hit them where it hurts, the money they make off of it.

Not throwing any stones here...just asking questions worth thinkin' about.

Enquiring minds want to know.

ADR (all due respect)to those deserving.

Dave

Post by **b0b** » 1 Dec 2004 1:08 pm

Most of your questions are answered on the SGHOF's web site, Dave:
http://scottysmusic.com/abouthof.htm

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 1 Dec 2004 1:45 pm

Dave
Even though all the answers to your questions are available here on the Forum in the many, many threads on this topic, I'll answer some of them for you.

I am on the Convention Board, along with Bobby Caldwell, Winnie Winston, Scotty, Fred Layman, Bob Maickel, and Tom Bradshaw. Jeff Newman of course passed away tragically this year. Do I have to list the qualifications of those guys? I know why I was asked to join.

I was asked to be on the Board by Bob Maickel, but I don't know if my becoming a member was his idea, Scotty's, Jeff's, or whoever's. I understand I was selected by the entire Board because I'm a long-time professional player who knows a lot of the history of the steel guitar and am good with the language and communicating. I also don't have any specific agendas or axes to grind about who goes in and who doesn't go in.

That isn't to say that there aren't others with qualifications equal or greater than mine. Maybe others were asked and they refused the offer, I don't know. It is somewhat of a hot seat, so to speak. Anyway, I accepted.

Are they a "qualified musician" or just someone who has made their living off of musicians?

Like Paul Bigsby, Leo Fender, guys like that? Being a "qualified musician,"... whatever THAT means... your only criteria for being a legitimate Board member? I consider myself a qualified musician, incidentally. But there are other types of contributors to the success of an endeavor; inventors, entrepreneurs, businessmen. Some guys want to write the world's greatest novel, other guys can't write a word but work to invent the world's greatest typewriter. All are necessary for an artform to advance.

The Steel Guitar Convention Board, which is the official name of the committee that chooses, by majority vote, the inductees into the SGHOF based on nominations that come from the steel guitar community or members of the Board themselves. A nomination that comes from a Board member must compete using the same criteria as a nomination that comes from the steel guitar community. One of this year's upcoming inductees was in fact nominated by me; and I had to do research, enlisting knowledgeable people I know to help me with facts and fact checking, write two lengthy documents listing the criteria, etc. In other words, I had to make the case for my nominee just as any other person doing the same task.

By the way, the "steel guitar community" doesn't honor an inductee selected by the SGHOF, the Board does. The decisions of the Board reflect the opinion of the Board, not the amorphous "steel guitar community."

The SGHOF is a private organization, and who is and isn't on the Board is the business of the Board itself. People don't seem to get that straight.

Incidentally, nothing is stopping anyone from starting another HOF. Frankly, sometimes it'd be a relief if someone DID start another HOF.

I even have a suggestion for a name. Call it the REAL Steel Guitar Hall of Fame.

Not throwing any stones here...

Yeah, right. I find your suggestion of "hit'em where it hurts" to be spiteful and disengenuous, and certainly not in character with what I've heard about you and the impression I got the few times we've actually met. As far as I'm concerned, my products help steel players become better steel players; I certainly don't want to sell anything to anyone they'd feel ripped off about. Likewise Scotty and his work, Jeff Newman's products, and Bob Maickel's work with the PSGA... arguably the best steel guitar journal around today. Their contributions and products far exceed mine in quality and quantity. Hell, without Tom Bradshaw, Jeff Newman, Scotty, Bob Maickel, and Winnie Winston, there wouldn't BE nearly as many steel players around to get their panties in a wad about who is and isn't in damn HOF!

Yeah, get personal. Work to hurt Scotty, Winnie, Herb, Bob Maickel, dis Jeff Newman's memory... that's definitely the way to get whoever you want into the Hall of Fame. That would include not attending the ISGC, resigning from the PSGA, organizing a boycott of Winnie's products, my products, maybe calling the musical employers of Bobby Caldwell and myself and getting them to cut our gigs or fire us. That would be productive, wouldn't it?

Frankly, I'm tired of this bullshit; the SGHOF is a very, very small part of my involvement in the steel guitar world. I have a life totally separate from the HOF, and I suggest you hard heads out there discover one for yourselves. Maybe if you got a call from your doctor one day you'd realize what is important in life and what isn't, and how you should spend your energy.

Herb out.
[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 01 December 2004 at 02:17 PM.]

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 1 Dec 2004 2:01 pm

Way to go Mike Cass!

Post by **Joey Ace** » 1 Dec 2004 2:26 pm

You must get tired of explaining the same points, Herb.

I suspect the only reason there's not another HOF is no one wants to take on the amount of work and hassle you guys endure.

Let me add a sincere Thank You (to you and the other members) for all you do.

Post by **b0b** » 1 Dec 2004 2:48 pm

Herb, you rock!

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 1 Dec 2004 3:19 pm

Thank you Herb for such an outstanding reply. I do not know why Julian has not been inducted into the Hall Of Fame but I believe one day his time will come. I believe down through the years the board has done a great job in their decisions. Trying to keep every steel player or fans happy is impossible. It appears this time around thare has been a mistake or the nomination has been misplaced. I personally do not feel any of the board members would do this intentionally to keep any player out. I know Tom Bradshaw is getting a roasting but I will say any time I have ever dealt with him or talked with him he has been nothing but a first class individual. I have ordered from him many times and he would send the product trusting that I would pay like I promised. That to me sounds like someone who has trust and can be trusted. His contributions to the steel guitar community are tremendous. I remember recently him donating much material to this forum. I do not know much about Tom's playing or what he has done as far as traveling or recording but I do know he loves the steel guitar and this community. He is only a single vote just as all other board members are. I believe asking for the board to resign and start over is asking too much. To all board members, I personally thank each of you for what you have done and the selections you have made. There are some great men in the Hall Of Fame. I hope one day to see Julian and Reece in there as well. We all know their playing is excellent. In closing, I wonder when we will get our first lady inducted into the Hall Of Fame?

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 1 Dec 2004 3:23 pm

thanx Herb for your enlightening post. Therefore,after now learning who the other board members are(I dont get out much), Id like to retract the part of my post where I suggested that you(HS)be the only board member left standing after a mass hatcheting. I did a disservice to Jeff's memory, not to mention Scotty, Bobby C, Winnie, Fred and Bob M......now beyond that, I think I'll stand by my original story

All I know for sure is that the guy who usually gets fired from a job is the one who repeatedly irritates and embarrasses the other workers, constantly making them have to defend themselves and their position due to his ego,agendas and innane self-determination to cut off his(and everyone elses)nose, to spite his face.
Here in the Guitar we like to call that kind of fellow a Shi*-Stirrer....and he's usually found sometime later in the local unemployment line.......[This message was edited by Mike Cass on 01 December 2004 at 03:43 PM.]

Post by **b0b** » 1 Dec 2004 3:43 pm

You can't fire the audience.

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 1 Dec 2004 3:48 pm

b0b, if I understand that statement correctly, is that why some clubs have chicken wire around the stage?

Post by **b0b** » 1 Dec 2004 3:49 pm

And why SGHOF meetings are behind closed doors.

Mike Sweeney · Post by **Mike Sweeney** » 1 Dec 2004 3:49 pm

Although I think halls of honor if you want to call them that are a great way to pay tribute to our heroes. I think in the grand scheme of things they are not the best way to pay tribute to those who've influenced us. I think that putting our energies into our own improvement on the instrument is the best way to do that. I personally know several members of the S.G.H.O.F. and to me it kind of cheapens their achievements when all this bickering goes on. I feel that Julian should be in the H.O.F. but it's not my place as stated by Herb S. and a person could take what he said the wrong way I guess to mean it's none of our buisness because none of us are qualified to make such decisions. But, for me, I have my own hall of fame in my heart for players that have influenced me in my musical journey through life some in the H.O.F. some not and never will be but that does not make them any less special to me.
All I can say is if enough people send in nominations and the player in question no matter who it is isn't still put in then take it up with the board in private.
Don't think I'm taking up for any one on the board just giving you something to think about.

Mike

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 1 Dec 2004 3:57 pm

Well, I said I was "out" but here I am again. First, I'd like to thank Mike Cass for his last post, and I'd like to address some points Mike C. made in his earlier post.

Mike, we've had this discussion privately but I'll enlighten the Forum on my opinion. Regarding fiddle players and how they differ from steel players in terms of attitude, cameraderie, and finding subs for their gigs.

Fiddlers/violinists, if they learned their instrument in school, learned in an orchestral setting. They're used to being part of a team and not threatened (some probably are, though) by the presence of other fiddlers. Why some steel players... Mike alludes to there being many in Nashville... feel threatened is understandable but it ignores a basic, musical Darwinism fact.

If another player CAN take your gig, it wasn't YOUR gig in the first place. You're doing something wrong or not doing something you should be doing. Or you're working for a boss that doesn't appreciate you.

When I can't do a Johnny Bush job due to previous commitments, Bush calls Johnny Cox, Dicky Overbey, Jim Loessberg, or Rick Price. Each one of these guys, IMHO, can play circles around me, though I do a good job for him and try to play my ass off each night I work with him. JB loves me personally, and I love him, we're brothers in spirit. I'm not afraid of him hiring one of those guys; hell, I've recommended them. Jim Loessberg refers jobs to me and I do the same for him. Likewise Dumplin', Rick Price, Dicky, Neil Flanz. There's some great steel players in this town that get tossed gigs by me, and they toss me work as well.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think we play the zero-sum games that go on elsewhere... for one guy to "win" someone has to "lose."

Do your best, whatever gig you have.

Mike Sweeney: I agree with you that the most meaningful Hall of Fame is in the heart of the individual fan or player. A HOF plaque on the wall is nice but ultimately only reflects the opinions of those awarding the plaque. No one's career got a boost by being in the HOF, no one made any more bucks by being in the HOF, no one's health improved by being in the HOF, no one's marriage was saved by their being in the HOF. It's nice to be honored, but ultimately your life is not changed fundamentally at all. I'm amazed at people who get so riled up about this; I haven't talked to Reece about it, but I can't imagine him worrying as much about it as some of his acolytes seem to do.

One more thing to the general population of the steel guitar community out there: think about the last time someone wanted to influence a decision of yours by questioning your integrity, demanding your resignation, being disrespectful, or threatening to damage your business. Did it piss you off? Did it make you more receptive to fulfilling their wants/needs or less receptive?

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 01 December 2004 at 04:06 PM.][This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 01 December 2004 at 04:14 PM.]

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 1 Dec 2004 5:10 pm

As of tonight, I've organized the REAL

NC Steel Guitar HOF, and Ron Lashley, Sr., Leonard Stadler and Clyde Mattocks are the first inductees. I hold the office of president (nominated and elected myself), and I'm the only board member. I think I'll make up the bylaws as I go.

If ya'll don't like the inductees, let me know and I'll fire myself.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 1 Dec 2004 5:13 pm

I just got the new "Bluegrass Unlimited," and Larry Sparks won Male vocalist!!!!
(Larry was the first lead singer Ralph Stanley hired after Carter's death).
So there's hope for good guys, with little flash, but TONS of soul, who're out there week after week, playing to meet expenses, and not much more.
Maybe this doesn't belong in a "Hall of Fame" thread.
Maybe none of these other posts do, either.

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 1 Dec 2004 5:32 pm

Seriously, guys... there are many, many fine and influential steelers in the world, and the board can't possibly include all of them. There will always be differences of opinion as to who's best suited.

Herb's right... if you don't like the inductees, form a HOF for people who've been snubbed by the present board.

And... remember that many great artists never receive the blessing of the "establishment" during their lifetime. I decided long ago (back in high school, really) that I didn't need the establishment's stamp of approval- and that's been a very liberating thing.

In fact, when I find myself in harmony with the establishment, I usually presume that I'm wrong!

Lonnie Portwood · Post by **Lonnie Portwood** » 1 Dec 2004 5:36 pm

Herb, I'd vote for you for President!! Why don't you run against Hillary in 2008? What you said in it's entirety was perfect! I would add an additional descriptive phrase to "hard heads", and that would be "dumba$$es. Regarding Tom Bradshaw whom I've never met, none of the posts by him have been nonsensical, egotistical, arrogant, misleading, vindictive, or anything related. They have been objective, truthful, and apparently offered in an honorable effort to clear the "air". Now, after boarding this train, paying for my ticket, I hope the Conductor will shut this sucker down, so we can all get "off" and do something productive. Thank you, thank you, thank you!! Lonnio P.

Lonnie Portwood · Post by **Lonnie Portwood** » 1 Dec 2004 5:37 pm

Oops, pushed too many buttons! Sorry, ya'll.[This message was edited by Lonnie Portwood on 01 December 2004 at 05:45 PM.]

bob drawbaugh · Post by **bob drawbaugh** » 1 Dec 2004 6:51 pm

Mike, we agree! the world is coming to an end.

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 1 Dec 2004 7:05 pm

OK.... then my question is this...
IF Maurice has currently cleaned up the past to the best of his ability,and judging from the settlement results it sounds as if he has,or he is honorably a good ways into the process of doing so,whether or not the ultimate fault originally resided with him; AND Julian isnt here any longer to defend himself,then why are their names still being dragged through mud,and why are steel guitarists of their caliber still being made to(choose yer favorite innappropriate term here)??......a simple question.
Jeez, even Downbeat Magazine knew enough to award a junkie like Charlie Parker.
And Mr's Tharpe and Anderson had to be mere rookies in whatever they "might" have separately been up to compared to Bird.
I say "might" here, as I personally know of no one who was ever harmed by either of those two men.
I didnt start this thread,nor did I encourage it. Check the "thread starter's" name. Theres yer damm culprit!
From nearly my first day on this forum up to and including today,Ive gotten a number of unsolicited and lengthy emails from him and his followers,all focusing on what scumbags they feel either Mr Anderson and Mr Tharpe are/were. And if those emails werent mean egotistical,selfish and vindictive,then I dont understand the lexicon of our conversational discourse very well.
Thats not my opinion,thats fact! Id post those emails here for all to read,but Im not vindictive. Mean, selfish, egotistical?? you bet yer ass, but TB said I should be like that in one of his first glossy mags back in the 70's

...which the same earlier statement by me(pg1) of course prompted yet another email

Im thinking of suggesting to Scotty that maybe a good Thursday night event for the ISGC this year might be a boxing match in the main room featuring all those people in our community who have a bone to pick with one another. You could sign up for ring time much like getting a tee time

Then we see whos all mouth and whos not.
Or, we could just do it like REAL steel guitarists and have a head cuttin' contest. Plenty of time to bone up before Labor Day,folks

Better get out more than the old distortion pedal and make like RR tho, St Louis is a pretty tough room

[This message was edited by Mike Cass on 01 December 2004 at 07:34 PM.]

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 1 Dec 2004 7:17 pm

Well, before it gets completely shut down and because I didn't start this thread however my name was mentioned many times, I think it's time to show the cards. So here they are. Please read carefully. There are no accusations, only questions.
I believe a Forum usually consists of personal opinions and here's my opinion.

I saw a quote from a respected and knowledgeable gentleman on this forum stating, "-------a person who wrongs another steel player wrongs us all". I believe that, and I wholeheartedly support such a statement. I don't know if the reference was made about an individual, player, manufacturer, shop owner, or whatever. But I do know it was made in reference to a discussion about the SGHOF . If one believes that statement is correct about a player, manufacturer, shop owner, or individual, (I can't speak for everyone but I would wager most folks believe that statement represents their feelings) then I ask is it OK for a SGHOF board member to actively participate in any function that causes any doubt whatsoever about the quality of the character or reputation of an individual player who is subject to induction into the SGHOF, based on unproven allegations, rumors, or personal opinions?

If a board member was to participate in, or initiate a campaign against any steel guitar player, with no evidence of wrongdoing, causing his/her reputation harm is he wronging us all? I would think so. Certainly not saying they did, but if the rest of that board, was knowledgeable of that kind of campaign, and sat by saying nothing publicly, are they condoning the activity by watching it happen and saying nothing? If so aren't they harming us all?

Further, and more importantly, is it alright to be able to remain a board member if it's proven he/she has wronged other steel guitar players either directly or indirectly by standing by and watching? Not if you believe, "-------a person who wrongs another steel player wrongs us all".

I've known of Tom Bradshaw for many years, especially where his steel guitar expertise is concerned. I was in his shop only one time and I'm certain he doesn't remember me, but I thought he ran an excellent business. I've read many of his articles and they have contributed much to the steel guitar progression through the years. His efforts to advance the PSG in the music world are many and worthwhile. In short he's been a super asset and pioneer in the PSG arena, but sometimes one may misjudge someone else’s actions. I personally am of the opinion Mr. Bradshaw went over the top on this one, and I've thought so since I was made aware of a letter he wrote to a gentleman in Louisiana, in which he made serious derogatory remarks and unproven allegations about a well known steel player. In that letter he plainly stated his position as being a member of the SGHOF board.

Mr. Bradshaw here's your opportunity, to put the train back on the track, set all the wheels to spinning, and you can do so by truthfully answering some very pertinent and pointed questions for this forum. I'll make it easy, perhaps like taking a multiple choice test but you'll only have to ponder two options; "yes" or "no". No explanation needed. . Just "yes" or "no" will suffice. In asking these questions, I am not accusing you of anything whatsoever. I’m just asking questions.

1. Have you circulated an email message to any members of the steel guitar community relating derogatory claims, relative to Julian Tharpe?

2. If the answer to #1 is yes, have those claims ever been proven in a court of law?

3. Have you ever written to anyone in the steel guitar community anything to the effect that you would never vote Julian Tharpe in the hall of fame because of what you claim to know about some of his activities?

4. Have you been the defendant in, required to participate in, or settled out of court, a legal proceeding brought by the action of a prominent steel guitar player, relative to your not paying monies for materials you reproduced and marketed?

5. Have you been a defendant in, required to participate in, or settled out of court, a legal proceeding based upon your written and oral wrongful derogatory accusations and remarks made about a prominent steel player and his business activities, where you later admitted publicly on this forum that you had been wrong ?

6. Were any of the derogatory accusations you made regarding question #5 ever proven or even considered in a court of law?

If you answer question #1 "yes", or #2 "no", then it seems to me you would fall into the category of "-------a person who wrongs another steel player wrongs us all".

It would prove true also if you answer questions #3 or #4 "yes", then it seems to me you would fall into the category of "-------a person who wrongs another steel player wrongs us all".

If you answer question #5 "yes" or #6 "no", then it seems to me you would fall into the category of "-------a person who wrongs another steel player wrongs us all".

If your answer to questions #1, #3, #4, or #5 is “no,” then perhaps we can discuss some of those answers more fully on this forum.

The Julian Tharpe matter is of great concern to me as is another matter. IF it turns out that you have wronged one or more other steel players then I don’t see how you can have any credibility as a board member. This is not a claim any members knew of your actions, but if you have wronged one or more steel guitar players, and others on the board know about that and haven’t corrected it, it would certainly be difficult to see how they can have any credibility as board members either?

Many of us would like to see your answers.

Fred

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The spirit be with you!
If it aint got a steel, it aint real