Julian Tharpes Contributions

Jerry Clardy · Post by **Jerry Clardy** » 9 Nov 2004 8:13 pm

Be shure to get yure strang on the rat thang!

Fred Jack · Post by **Fred Jack** » 9 Nov 2004 9:47 pm

Donny H. & Stephen G.
I'd like to know who sent the e-mails and made these accusations! Surely you could reveal the names since you have revealed the accusations.Now that doubt has been lodged.
Incidently, I did know Julian very well.Ran with him some.I've heard talk but never anything but talk.I think the readers here are entitled to the name of the author.Kind Regards, Fred

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 9 Nov 2004 11:15 pm

I'd just like to make a note that I'm aware of various things in regards to Julian, and Dave made a good topic, but I'd like to see it go beyond the usual conspiracy stories and tales that go around and around to no avail.

I have been part of the nomination process for one particular individual, almost 12 pages, and that was just the bio, setting the artist into a historical context.

Some are simpler, but I'd be interested to see exactly what was used for a nomination.
I'm not anti-Tharpe, and I suspect some poeple thought I was when I jumped in on that other topic where Scotty and others were getting some pretty poor misinformed abuse. (in my humble opinion)

I wanna see more, like I said Dave is one his way, how about a date, for every album, a listing for every album, some testimonials by players who got them at the time, or dug him later.
Julian played in the road bands of Ray Price and Barbara Mandrell, anyone got pics, quote, heard live stuff?..

Pull it all together, post it here, and send it to the HOF, which I might add, gets plenty of other nominations each year.
Just coz ya get a nomination done, doesn't mean they'll get in, and it doesn't have to even be the 'big bad conspiracy' scenario.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 10 Nov 2004 5:19 am

Fred Jack-
I got the email from Jim Molberg, and that's all he said about Julian. The rest of the(rather lengthy)email concerned MSA, and some dealings with Maurice Anderson over the years. Too long to post here, and I only mention Jim's name, because he told me the email was NOT confidential.

Dave Horner · Post by **Dave Horner** » 10 Nov 2004 7:07 am

Stephen,

Just so you are aware. The information that Jim Molberg is currently pasing out regarding MSA is riddled with falsehoods. As you may have read on another thread (now closed), I challenged him to join us in a mediation to determine in the truth or falsity of his allegations. He has yet to accept.

Tom Bradshaw's post in response to my message to Molberg derided that offer as "gambling." Molberg apparently didn't want to speak for himself and "put up or shut up" as my post was so eloquently characterized by Fred Shannon.

In fact, mediation is a recognized form of dispute resolution. Secondly, "gambling" implies a wager on an uncertain outcome with a chance to win or lose. Since we would have no chance of losing and Molberg would have no chance of winning, there is no element of gambling.

The Molberg writings are symptomatic of some of the problems noted elsewhere on this thread. Someone with an axe to grind peppers the steel community with false accusations.

In Julian's case, there are apparently accusations that are based in rumor and innuendo but no court findings. One has a hard time defending oneself against rumor. In Julian's case, he is unable to even attempt it.

In the case of Molberg's current writings about MSA the infomation, as I said, is riddled with falsehoods. To date, Molberg has not accepted my proposal. Knowing what I know, and knowing what I'm sure he knows, I'm quite certain he never will. That ought to speak loudly about his allegations. But, the offer as written is still open to him.

To paraphrase an adage: "If the facts are on your side, then pound the facts. If the facts are not on your side, then pound the table.

Molberg continues to pound the table.

But, it is beginning to appear that many others have had enough of the rumor mill that has long plagued the community. Maybe that will lead to positive change.

Best Regards,

Dave

Fred Jack · Post by **Fred Jack** » 10 Nov 2004 8:27 am

Stephen, Thanks for your post.I'm not to alarmed over that one as I've heard that one befor. Thanks, Fred

Post by **b0b** » 10 Nov 2004 8:44 am

Dave Horner, please start a topic about MSA if you want to talk about that. I won't have another Julian Tharpe topic hijaaked. I will delete posts about MSA that appear in this topic, from this point forward.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Nov 2004 8:45 am

Fellow steelers, my intention here was never to start rumors or spread malicious gossip, but merely to find out if the allegations I'd been told about Julian were true. It's been my own experience that bad memories and experiences that people try to keep buried often grow and fester, like a splinter buried deep in your finger. And, like that troublsome splinter, they will continue to cause problems until they are brought out. Some here allude that Julian is dead now, and they really don't think anything good can come of knowing more about this story. If that's your opinion too, so be it. I just find it curious that people often post here to sully the reputation of of someone still living and promoting the steel guitar, but are somehow averse to doing the same to someone who has died.

Shouldn't we accord the same courtesy and forgiveness to all?

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 10 Nov 2004 1:41 pm

Hey, b0b, Fred Jack asked, and Dave responded. I read his offer, and Bradshaw's response, in the other thread. As with the HOF, I don't care, one way or another. I ain't got a dime in this thing!

Dave A. Burley · Post by **Dave A. Burley** » 10 Nov 2004 4:26 pm

The main reason I started this thread about Julian's accomplishment was not to start a lot of Julian bashing or a bunch of unfounded insinuations.
I knew Julian personally and traveled several thousand miles with him......Drinking, eating, joking and a lot of steel guitar discussion.
Read the life story of Django sometime....Once you have read it, ask yourself if you think any less of Django's talents because you have just discovered that he was not a real nice person at times.
Django was a super star jazz guitarist.
Julian Tharpe was a super star pedal steel guitarist.
My opinion, again, is that the talents of Julian Tharpe and what he offered to the steel guitar world is what really counts.
Gees...During those years in the mid-seventies when I first started promoting the pedal steel guitar shows, I got caught up a few times myself. Not because of any intentional wrong doings....Just the fact that I loved the pedal steel guitar and might have been moving a little too fast.
Maurice knows how tough it was for me.
Julian knew how tough it was for me and they both did their best to help me promote my ideas.
Had it not been for Les Paul, another long story, and had I been able to continue with my ideas for the steel guitar, it's hard telling where the pedal steel might be today.
Like I said......Julian and Maurice were right there in the beginning and both went out of their ways to help me promote the instrument.
This crap that someone posted about where is the proof that Julian did anything, such as teaching books and etc., is exactly that...A bunch of Enquirer style crap.
I was there.....I knew where Julian was coming from...He wanted to promote the pedal steel guitar more than anyone I knew at the time. Julian, I and Jimmy Bryant discussed it hours at a time over several bottles of wine. We wanted the pedal steel guitar to be on an equal basis with the jazz guitarists, doing concerts at jazz clubs and being featured on major shows as individual talents, not just the people that backed up the great country music singers.
Julian was a monstrous talent. He influenced hundreds of beginning steel guitarists. I seen it personally..... He deserves to be in the SGHOF no matter what kind of unfounded rumors are floating around out there.
As far as his recorded material....I believe that I probably have more unreleased material of Julian Tharpe's than anyone. Why isn't it out there? It costs money.
When I promoted all of those shows in the mid seventies, I didn't have any money, just guts. I still don't have any money but the years have taken away the guts that I had as a young man.
Maybe some of us 'better than thou' people should start a hall of fame for some of the biggest winners that were also losers at time's. There would probably be a bunch of names that would shock the heck out of all of us.
Look in your mirror and ask that man or woman that you are looking at if you have the right to say anything negative about Julian Tharpe. If you don't have that personal experience, keep your mouths shut. Better yet, keep your mouths shut anyway. Julian is gone but his music lives on.
Judge both Maurice and Julian for their great musical talent's and what they have done for the pedal steel and give them the honor that they deserve by inducting them into the SGHOF.
Thanks,
Dave Burley

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Nov 2004 5:52 pm

Dave, I honestly don't know where you get off saying something like this...

This crap that someone posted about where is the proof that Julian did anything, such as teaching books and etc., is exactly that...A bunch of Enquirer style crap.

What I actually said was...

Just out of curiosity, does Julian fit...or has he made contributions under all, or most, of the 7 categories mentioned at the SGHOF site? No doubt he was a great and innovative player, but did he really contribute in all the "required" areas? My only awareness of him was as a club player, and the few albums of his that I have. I'd like to hear something about his touring, backing major artists, teaching, instructional materials, promoting, conducting concerts, etc., since these are all mentioned in the nomination application form.

If you're going to "paraphrase" what I say, at least get it close, please!

I don't know much about Julian, but many here speak highly of him. I simply asked (in as nice, and as an objective way as possible) for some more information on what all he had done to deserve such attention. I wanted to know what else he had done that I wasn't aware of.

When I got a derogatory e-mail about him, I was simply curious as to what all the "secret hoopla" was about. (I'd heard it before.) That's why I posted the guy's statement, and that's why I gave it no credibility when I posted it! But obviously, you and a few others failed to notice that. (No one told me there were things you're not supposed to know and things you're not supposed to ask about.)

I have no personal agenda here on the Forum. I have nothing to do with the SGHOF. I also have nothing for sale, I work for no company or store, and I endorse no one's products, (though I have bought most of the CD's b0b has for sale). I joined the Forum only to learn what I could, to share what I know and have experienced from over 40 years of playing steel guitar, and to offer a different viewpoint, sometimes.

And now I realize...why so many just read...and refuse to post here.

I'm finished.

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 10 November 2004 at 05:53 PM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 10 Nov 2004 6:40 pm

I might take responsibility for turning what Mr Hinson said into a call for a statement of these things. Sorry Donny. I'm too clever sometimes.

I don't care how many ways you slice it, how famous you are, how good you play, how "caught up in it" you got, how many times you were "absolved in a court of law", or how many times Jesus saved your soul. Especially not how many of your friends are doing time in prison on a "bum rap".

I hear people using all kinds of excuses for "keeping the money", "padding the time card", not telling the whole truth, or not standing up for something you know is right. etc etc,. They use "the steel guitar community" here sometimes, I suppose, their religion, the "greater good", or their wife and kids. In my 50 years, I've heered durn near all of them..

If what you did was right, it was right.

If what you did was wrong, it was wrong.

The guy in the mirror know for sure. Look at him.

Don't talk about how "other people have no business talking about anything".

Who are you to decide what people talk about?

They ALL have a right to decide what right and wrong is. It's a responsibility that more and more seem to be ducking in these times.

Also. don't look for winning a victory in a court of law taking away "right or wrong". That's not it's function if you take the time to read the fine print.

How embarrassing for Mr Tharpe watching all this from purgatory.

I never, until this thread, knew a single negative thing about him, nor did I wish to.

That's the way it works though...

A lot of it really went for nothing, didn't it Julian?

Look at these people...

They are your peers..

Maybe even your friends

EJL

Robert Momot · Post by **Robert Momot** » 10 Nov 2004 6:40 pm

I was at the Millenium Hotel today to visit the Steel Guitar Hall Of Fame, and to admire all of the plaques of all the great players that had received this great honor. And it came to me that none of these great players had to have their actions and lifestyle's defended by anyone. So there must be a problem that lies in the way Mr. Tharpe lived his life and treated his fellow man.

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 11 Nov 2004 12:30 am

Robert M. states: "So there must be a problem that lies in the way Mr. Tharpe lived his life and treated his fellow man."

Geez! Robert, although this is not in the full context of your last post, is this how you reallly feel, and you from the 'Show Me State'?

I'm assuming this is an "assumption" on your part, and you really have no real "proof" (now there's a word a lot of folks don't like) of this statement, referring to Julian's life. But if you do have such "proof", I would appreciate your emailing it to me.

After having studied under Julian for too short a time, and he were still alive, I believe I can tell you where he would tell a lot of folks "---where they could stick it."

However,what I really want to say is if the quote is an "assumption" and not "proof", a lot of people can be lead to believe the statement as gospel, gasoline will be added to the fire, and another individual's reputation is beginning to be sullied.

No matter what anyone wants to believe, Julian Tharpe contributed a hell of a lot to the Pedal Steel Guitar as we know it.

Further, you can damn well rest assured my last nomination to the hall has been made. It aint worth the time, effort, or the abuse one has to endure to "justify" one's opinion.I honestly believe most, but not all, the individuals in this hall belong there, but it is my right to choose, but no one single person has the right to choose who is not. There are several Players, Teachers, and Manufacturers that need to be, but never will.

Not that it makes a bit of difference, but I don't need a few guys meeting in "executive session" to tell me how good or bad a steel player is, onstage or off. But more than one Board Member has told us that this is a "private" organization and in so many words, the Board can pretty well do what they want. Not with my opinion, they can't. I don't have to participate. It appears to me some one is implying "You don't like it, start your own damned hall." Have I got news for them, I ALREADY HAVE, and strangely enough I didn't need their help.

Like Herb Steiner, this will certainly be my last post on this sordid mess, but I qualify the statement to reserve the right to proceed with my life, whatever that means.

Edited to add: I would like to be a fly on the wall when some people I know are told they have been inducted into the hall, and it's a certainty that I'll never be asked to participate and buy a personal plaque for over 700 bucks to hang on my wall. Now hang your hat on that,and ask the board what it means. I know one person who is 700 dollars richer today. UnAmerican as hell, LOL.

fred

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The spirit be with you!
If it aint got a steel, it aint real

[This message was edited by Fred Shannon on 11 November 2004 at 12:42 AM.]

Dave A. Burley · Post by **Dave A. Burley** » 11 Nov 2004 9:33 am

<<<<<I'd like to hear something about his touring, backing major artists, teaching, instructional materials, promoting, conducting concerts, etc., since these are all mentioned in the nomination application form.>>>>>>>

I wonder what would happen if all of the deceased steel players would have to fill out the nomination application for themselves to be inducted into the SGHOF.
According to the requirements, there would probably be a lot less members of that honored Hall.
I didn't mean to offend Don with my remarks using the word crap.
I guess everyone has the right to question someone's credentials when it comes to a yea or nay on becoming a member of the SGHOF.
I guess that the fact that I knew Julian personally and knew his talent and his drive to improve the lot of the steel guitar players makes me a little prejudice and I can't understand anyone posting negative thoughts or posting something that could possibly be a seed that would produce negative thoughts.
Anyone can make up a story just to be heard. They just don't realize that these stories end up sprouting wings and as they go from one person to the other they gain momentum and you end up with a lot of stories that had nothing to do with the first story.
Best thing to do, like I said before, is keep your mouth shut when it comes to things such as Julian's personal history and especially something you know absolutely nothing about. Judge the man for what we know as fact, his accomplishments with the steel guitar, not what you heard rumored that he did somewhere else.
Thanks,
Dave A. Burley

Charles Curtis · Post by **Charles Curtis** » 11 Nov 2004 10:32 am

I have known guys that have got into the dangdest fist fights and went on being friends etc., and I've known malicious words uttered that can just lie there and fester for years. I think it tacit that words alone can do irreparable harm.

Harold Parris · Post by **Harold Parris** » 21 Nov 2004 3:02 pm

Julian was more advanced on pedal steel 25 years ago than most of us will ever be. He had his style of playing and was a pioneer on 12 and 14 string universal pedal steel. I know nothing about his personal life or habits other than he was an accomplished musician decades ahead of his time. He was a player that stepped outside the "box" and experimented with pedal steel guitar styles and setups. The bottom line is he paved the way for us with his adventurous nature.

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Sierra Session and MSA Classic Guitars, Nashville 400, Session 400, and Evans FET 500 HiVolt, and Gretsch Nashville Pro Steel Amps, Keith Hilton Digital Sustain pedal and Digital Sustain Box .
Harold Parris email hparris9@aol.com

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 25 Nov 2004 6:46 pm

I was introduced to Julian Tharp by Bob when I purchased Julian's tape off the forum. I was introduced to Zane Beck by Don Frenche.

These 2 guys, changed my whole prospective of what pedal steel is and can do.

Regardless what side of the fence you reside on, the playing ultimately speaks for itself.

At St. Louis how many children did you see? How many people over 45 did you see?

We have got to expose the instrument to the next generation of players.

Julian and Zane have inspired me to want to go in a different direction and try to reach that next generation.

So what if the Hall of Fame was not based upon how good the player was but what impact he made on music and it's influence today.

I wonder how many would be in it?

Julian doesn't need a plaque on a hotel wall to determine his worth, his playing did all the speaking.

Willis Vanderberg · Post by **Willis Vanderberg** » 28 Nov 2004 8:48 am

If private life is the criteria by which we are ultimately measured , I can think of thousands of famous and great people who should be deleted from history books.
This includes a few presidents and world leaders.As any flyer can tell you, the best pilots are not always the best instructors.
I learn something from pickers who don't have a very high opinion of their own ability.It has been my experience that, some of the exceptional people I have had contact with, have personal problems. So Talent and brains doesn't alway let us rise above the darker side of things. Just my 2 cents.
Old Bud

Post by **b0b** » 28 Nov 2004 10:32 am

If private life is the criteria by which we are ultimately measured...

The view of the SGHOF, as I understand it, has little to do with "private life". Board members have said as much on this Forum.

As I understand their position, a steel player who wrongs another steel player wrongs us all. Private or public actions that do not hurt other steel players are of no concern. Charles Manson could make it into the SGHOF if he were a steel guitarist.

The "formal" nomination that Tom Bradshaw claims never happened seems to have happened. Even in the thread he makes he statement that Tharpe was never "formally" nominated. Fred Shannon post a copy of his "formal" nomination for Tharpe that he sent in to the HOF in 2003----anyone who read the thread can make up their mind as to the integrity of one of the actual board members of the Steel Guitar Hall of Fame. He denies the actual nomination occured, and then you get to read it! Go figure.

I believe Tom.

I apologize for fanning the flames here, but it had to be said. When people call the integrity of the entire Board into question, I will question the source of the accusation. These guys are all friends of mine and they are, in my opinion, as honest as the day is long. If we can't trust Scotty, Fred Layman, Herbster, et.al. then I should just close this place down and walk away.

When you know the real people, it takes a lot more than a text file on a remote computer somewhere in cyberspace to change your opinion of them.

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/b0bxicon.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 
System Administrator

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 28 Nov 2004 11:47 am

Well hell, here we go again. Tom Bradshaw made a statement about as far as he knew there had been no nominations submitted for Julian Tharpe. I made the statement that I knew there had been, then you, b0b, asked me to post the nomination. I had the nomination on another older computer under a Corel Word Perfect document. I copied that to a txt file in order to put it on the Forum. No one bitched about it then. And if we're gonna' fan the flames I suggest someone get in touch with Scotty and have him send you the email he sent me, which I consider confidential, explaining what may have happened to that nomination. Just another example of blow outs that occur before people have done their homework.

Even though I was not mentioned by name I think the implication was caught by all according to one email I just received. I havent even looked at this thread since my one post until the email. I am not thin skinned, but I take the post personally.

Too, I am not a damned remote computer posting out of cyberspace. I didn't bring up the nomination of Julian Tharpe. I did post what I thought about the methods used against him and if that's not what a forum is about then count me in with Carl Dixon. Enuff is enuff and I resent the damned post and insinuations. Period. No one from this computer ever said they doubted the integrity of but one person on the SGHOF and I maintain that stance.

Edited to correct two spelling errors and one misstatement.

BTW Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas. Have a nice life.

fred

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The spirit be with you!
If it aint got a steel, it aint real

[This message was edited by Fred Shannon on 28 November 2004 at 11:51 AM.][This message was edited by Fred Shannon on 28 November 2004 at 11:56 AM.]

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 28 Nov 2004 4:15 pm

b0b-I once read somewhere that Charles Manson WAS a steel guitarist...

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 28 Nov 2004 4:24 pm

The Bradshaw/Manson connection is well documented elsewhere on this Forum. Manson is not a steel guitarist.

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 28 Nov 2004 6:19 pm

Super dodge. An old indian once said it's darkest before the sun rises, but it would make no difference to a man who can't see or hear. Deaf and dumb people would probably have a rough time being a steel player. Just a thought. Sometimes minds are changed by revelations. Probably sooner than later.

fred

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The spirit be with you!
If it aint got a steel, it aint real