Danny Boy

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 12 Oct 2004 4:16 am

Fred Weatherly's own description of writing Danny Boy.

In 1912 a sister-in-law in America sent me "The Londonderry Air". I had never heard the melody or even heard of it. By some strange oversight Moore had never put words to it, and at the time I received the MS. I did not know that anyone else had done so. It so happened that I had written in March of 1910 a song called "Danny Boy," and re-written it in 1911. By lucky chance it only required a few alterations to make it fit that beautiful melody. After my song had been accepted by a publisher I got to know that Alfred Percival Graves had written two sets of words to the same melody, "Emer's Farewell" and "Erin's Apple-blossom," and I wrote to tell him what I had done. He took up a strange attitude and said that there was no reason why I should not write a new set of words to the "Minstrel Boy," but he did not suppose I should do so! The answer of course is that Moore's words, "The Minstrel Boy" are so "perfect a fit" to the melody that I certainly should not try to compete with Moore. But beautiful as Grave's words are, they do not to my fancy suit the Londonderry air. They seem to have none of the human interest which the melody demands. I am afraid my old friend Graves did not take my explanation in the spirit which I hoped from the author of those splendid words, "Father o' Flynn." However, "Danny Boy" is accepted as an accomplished fact and is sung all over the world by Sinn Feiners and Ulstermen alike, by English as well as Irish, in America as well as in the homeland, and I am certain "Father o' Flynn" is equally popular, as it deserves to be, and its author need have no fear that I shall be so foolish as to write a new version of that song. Here are my words:

DANNY BOY
Oh, Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
From glen to glen, and down the mountain side.
The summer's gone, and all the roses falling,
It's you, it's you must go and I must bide.
But come ye back when summer's in the meadow,
Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow,
It's I'll be here in sunshine or in shadow,—
Oh, Danny boy, O Danny boy, I love you so!
But when ye come, and all the flowers are dying,
If I am dead, as dead I well may be,
Ye'll come and find the place where I am lying,
And kneel and say an Avè there for me.
And I shall hear, though soft you tread above me,
And all my grave will warmer, sweeter be,
For you will bend and tell me that you love me,
And I shall sleep in peace until you come to me!

It will be seen that there is nothing of the rebel song in it, and no note of bloodshed. "Rory Darlin'" on the other hand is a rebel song. It has been set sympathetically by Hope Temple. No doubt if Sir William Hardman were alive, he would forbid it being sung at Surrey Sessions mess.

Fred E. Weatherly, K.C.
Piano and Gown
London & New York, G. P. Putnam's Sons, 1926
pp. 277-279
A few comments. When Weatherly says "a sister-in-law", keep in mind that he had seven brothers. Moore didn't set the tune because he used Bunting as a source. Petrie's collection wasn't published until three years after Moore died. So Weatherly seems unaware of the origin of the tune; he only knows it is Irish, and assumes that Moore would have known it. He received it from his sister-in-law as a manuscript copy, not a printed copy of Percy Grainger's version. The explanation of the reference to "Surrey Sessions mess" will be found below.

Also, you get Weatherly's original punctuation and spelling, if you ever had any questions about that.

Ambiguous or what ?

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 12 Oct 2004 3:09 pm

basilh: Well, I'd be the last to question those pieces of history as they are very compelling. But old habits die slowly and while I will agree with you, I'd like to keep my perception of the words. I think it would best be stated as: Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder !!

Regards, Paul

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 13 Oct 2004 12:53 am

Paul.. I agree ENTIRELY with you...the story you heard, and recalled for us, would make one play and view the tune with a certain aproach that probably would be different, but still "From the Heart" and possibly just as "Tear Jerking" (Hopefully !!)

I've almost been driven to tears by performances of this Tune/Song.. I'm sure you know what I mean !
Baz[This message was edited by basilh on 13 October 2004 at 01:55 AM.]

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 13 Oct 2004 5:39 am

Baz: I have done that too ! One time after some surgery, I thought I wasn't going to make it and the thought occured to me that I would liketo have those lyrics on my tombstone.The reality of what that would cost changed my mind but it still comes to light now and then.

Thanks, Paul

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 13 Oct 2004 6:34 am

Paul,
That would take a BIG tombstone!

Erv

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 13 Oct 2004 7:52 am

When sung by a man, the composer of the lyrics, suggests that the name "Eily" (Eileen) be used INSTEAD of Danny...

Basil, with all due respect, how can we know who added the alternate lyrics? They obviously didn't appear in the original release...nothing that I've read so far affirms that they were. It could have just as well be added, or suggested, by the publisher. (This happens even today on many songs!)

Also, from the link you gave us, I've extracted this...

The singer, less clearly identified, could be either an aged parent or guardian, or a lover with a terminal or critical illness, of indeterminate gender. You could make the singer a mother, father, aunt, uncle, gay lover, or straight lover: many opportunities for royalties, as you say.

So, your comment that...

...then ANY other slant is just wrong.

...could also very well be wrong. Writer's from time immemorial have been ambiguous in the meanings of their works, often for good reasons. I suspect that's what's happened here, and therefore, we'll just have to "agree to disagree". I will stay on the side of the vast majority that accepts it as a song meant to be sung by a man until such time as the female vocal versions surpass those already made by males.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 13 Oct 2004 12:25 pm

Here is a simple tabbed out version I use for teaching:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum8/HTML/000061.html

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Bob
intonation help

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 14 Oct 2004 4:00 pm

Gee, and I always thought it was called the "London Derriere".

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 14 Oct 2004 5:17 pm

Derriere...

Jim: Isn't that a small handgun ??

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 15 Oct 2004 12:31 am

Donny, with all due respect, whenever a sentence starts

with all due respect

I usually interpret it as meaning the exact opposite, but in this case as you say

we'll just have to "agree to disagree".

I'm also sure you're correct regarding the vast majority... myself, being just one person would most defintely be in the minority... I Maybe the ONLY one to view the song the way I do !

BUT...
My partner for over 15 years (Rosaleen Collins) who was 12 times world champion Seano's singer, and probably the best that Ireland has ever produced, tells me that judges in the Seanos competitions, are VERY particular regarding interpretation, and would NEVER entertain a MALE version of this song in competition. The judges being the worlds foremost experts in trad unacompanied (Seanos) singing have their own veiws which seem to be as mine, so just MAYBE, whilst in the world of "Popular" music, you may be correct in your view of the song, the "Traditionalists" (Like myself) would seem to support the credited writers view, as given on the original score, the use of "Eily" (Eileen) INSTEAD of Danny.
Basil

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 15 Oct 2004 7:17 am

Paul Graupp-your wrting in the Fender Frets Magazine was one of the few we had to enjoy in those days.

I remember very well when in 1967 you printed the chart of Maurice Andersons' Danny Boy. On his Bb6 tuning. Of course I was amazed and highly impressed with it. So I had to learn to do it, but it wasn't easy. It was a very modern arrangement. Reece took the pedal steel in a new direction in that year....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 15 October 2004 at 08:19 AM.]

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 16 Oct 2004 5:32 am

Thank you, Al !! You might find it interesting tha b0b has posted an e-mail he received in Extended Family. The thread is titled Bobby White and is about one of Reece's best friends and also a devotee of Bb tunings. In a post to that thread I mentioned that Bob liked Danny Boy and I'll Take You Home Again Kathleen. Since it has been almost a year since he passed away, it deserves a mention in this thread.

I would still like to see something substantiated about Reece's arrangement of Danny Boy being the first published Tab for PSG. Surely it deserves that recognition if indeed it was the first such endeavor.

Regards, Paul