Jerry Garcia

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 7 Sep 2004 10:12 am

Mark,

In regards to the question about the Twins that Buddy Cage played through with NRPS, there is some info on that in an interview John Arnold did with Buddy a few years back (was in the PSGA Newsletter, and a link to a saltier version was on John's website and may still be (www,johnbarnold.com). As I recall, Jerry was using a Sho Bud amp while playing steel with NRPS, and Cage insisted on going with the kinds of amps the Dead were using for the guitars.

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 7 Sep 2004 10:56 am

It's funny, but when you think about it, the arguably most famous pedal steel part ever played was not played by Buddy Emmons, nor was it played by Lloyd Green, nor any other icon. It was played by Jerry Garcia. Hmmm ..

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Jeff's Jazz

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 7 Sep 2004 10:59 am

And what will happen if Robert Randolph ends up playing the second most famous steel guitar solo. Most likely our heads will explode.

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Jeff's Jazz

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 7 Sep 2004 3:33 pm

Let me put it in perspective[my warped perspective].. NO ONE ,NO other steel player anywhere that ever lived,could have done a better job on Teach..Yes it could have been done by one of the studio greats a little more classy sounding or more slickly produced,but with more soul? more feeling? more appropriate to the tone, tempo and feel of the song ??? no way my friends.. Say what you will about JG's playing[I liked it .. A LOT]but what he played and how he played it was absolute PERFECTION for the song[Teach} in question. NO ONE could have done THAT song any better bob

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 7 Sep 2004 4:02 pm

Thats what I think Bob. I was just wondering if anyone knew his copedant and tap setting on his three position ZB pickup.

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 7 Sep 2004 6:36 pm

Mark

Yeah, I know a bit about those modded twins-I had my reissue done that way to Healy's specs. Buddy used them as preamps. Then into McIntosh 2800's, sometimes 5 or 6 of them, then into about a dozen or more Hard Trucker cabs with dual JBL's in them (from the Wall of Sound when it was parted out.)

More on all that in the interview at www.Buddycage.net

and yeah, garcia started using them too.

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Fulawka D-10 9&5
Fessenden D-10 8&8
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net

http://www.nrpsmusic.com/index.html

[This message was edited by JB Arnold on 07 September 2004 at 07:37 PM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 7 Sep 2004 7:00 pm

JB.

I know. I was there when they recorded it in '75.

EJL

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 7 Sep 2004 7:40 pm

Eric -- Wasn't it recorded at the Great American Music Hall? It seemed as if the Dead weren't there it was Old in the Way ... or NRPS ... or Merle Saunders and Jerry G. ... or ... or ...

Or did I permanently alter those brain cells?[This message was edited by Russ Young on 07 September 2004 at 08:47 PM.]

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 7 Sep 2004 8:16 pm

The steel player was more skilled than Jerry (Paul Fanklin, I think) but IMO, it's just doesn't grab me like original.

The original is definately very catchy. Though it is also true that folks tend to stick with their first attachment/impression for reasons I can't articulate very well (nostalgia or whathaveyou), even if later renditions are technically more refined. (Hard to argue with PF being refined.)

But Jerry did it first....

I think another song that helped define the PSG for the broader public was the simple little lick in the chorus of Tammy Wynette's "Stand By Your Man". That song helped to define steel for me, even before TYC came along.

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Bill, steelin' since '99 | Steel page | My music | Steelers' birthdays | Over 50?[This message was edited by Bill Llewellyn on 08 September 2004 at 07:54 AM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 7 Sep 2004 8:41 pm

Live at the Cellar Door in WADC with
Jerry Garcia - banjo, vocals
David Grisman - mandolin, vocals
Peter Rowan - guitar, vocals
John Kahn - acoustic bass
Vassar Clements - fiddle

Pig In A Pen (Traditional)
Midnight Moonlight (Peter Rowan)
Old And In The Way (David Grisman)
Knockin' On Your Door (Traditional)
The Hobo Song (Jack Bonus)
Panama Red (Peter Rowan)
Wild Horses (Mick Jagger / Keith Richard)
Kissimee Kid (Vassar Clements)
White Dove (Carter Stanley)
Land Of The Navajo (Peter Rowan)

I remember they did a bunch more songs, but twenty years ago I might have remembered what they were..

They did several shows that ran through from 74 to 77(?) in other places and other "Old and In the Way" records too. The one on this album was live there in 75.

It was great. 30 years has passed by in a blink...

Now, gold has turned to gray, and youth....

EJL [This message was edited by Eric West on 07 September 2004 at 09:51 PM.]

Mark Switzer · Post by **Mark Switzer** » 8 Sep 2004 1:23 am

J.B.: Thanks for the reply. So what was the nature of the mod?
The Greatful Dead book "The Illustrated Trip" says Old and In the Way did 27 shows, all in 1973.
Mark

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 8 Sep 2004 2:45 am

If you want to hear a truly superb chicken-pickin' standard guitar solo by Garcia, listen to his work on "Mama Tried" on the Dick's Picks Volume 10, Live at Winterland 1977. When their heads were properly tuned, the Grateful Dead could absolutely tear up "Big River", "El Paso" and other country standards - their admiration for classic American music and their talent for playing it was very evident. Unfortunately, pharmaceutically tuning the human brain can be a haphazard and unpredictable process, tuning six brains to peak at the same time can be even more so, so they had their share of clams for sure.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 8 Sep 2004 6:17 am

I think it is pathetic that the quality of a player is judged by the size of the hit record that he was on instead of the amount of talent he actually has.

Isn't it strange that Jerry Garcia is judged to have had more talent than Randy Beavers, because of this one record he was on? I'm sure some people reading this now will also feel this way. Such a shame that the steel players true talent is judged by the size of the record that he was lucky enough to be on.

Jerry was a nice guy, worked many shows with him in the long gone past, but he truly knew where is was in the pecking order of steel players. God rest his soul.

bobbe

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 8 Sep 2004 6:57 am

Bobbe
I don't think anyone here is trying to say Garcia had more talent than Randy Beavers-or any other real steeler for that matter. God knows Garcia wouldn't have said that. And as Cage says when asked if he taught Gar to play "Hell no. If I'd taught him, he'd have been a much better steel player."

I think those Garcia phreaks among us just think he gets raked over the coals for the sin of being more famous than some other folks.
JB

------------------
Fulawka D-10 9&5
Fessenden D-10 8&8
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net

http://www.nrpsmusic.com/index.html

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 8 Sep 2004 7:06 am

J B, I totally agree with you, this is exactly what I'm trying say.
He was a good guy, just in over his head! Ha!

bobbe

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 8 Sep 2004 7:54 am

Probably the most relevant thing identified in this thread is that steel-guitar players are no different than any others in the entertainment field.

Except when judged by their peers, the "Greatness" (is that a word?) of musicians and other performers is determined not by their actual ability but by how they are "perceived" by the public who they serve!

How many times have we heard the comment that someone else may have done it better....but he (or she) did it first!

......and how many times have we heard the comment, (or made it ourselves), about the "unknowns" we know who have ability "above and beyond" the "stars" who have been "recognized".

It was not always so, but in my old age I have come to believe that those known as "one hit wonders", and those perceived by their peers as not being adequately talented or qualified enough to be accepted by their peers....are legitimate members of the "club"!

They all had dreams, and in diverse ways achieved a place in the entertainment world. May God bless 'em all!

www.genejones.com

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 8 Sep 2004 8:21 am

.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 09:35 PM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 8 Sep 2004 8:24 am

Like most people, I have two ears. In a musical setting, one is connected to my brain while the other is connected to my heart. Sometimes I hear music through my 'heart' ear, while the 'brain' ear doesn't seem to pick up much, other times it's the other way around. To me, the truly great players are those who appeal equally to both ears (but if I have to choose between them, I'd go with my 'heart' ear).
And now I'll stop not making sense and go back to making music..

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Post by **Joey Ace** » 8 Sep 2004 8:49 am

The "One Hit Wonders" of the world are one hit ahead of me, and most of us.

Did anyone say Johnny Farina is more talented than Randy? No. Same for Jerry.

***Flame Shields On***
Jerry belongs in the HOF for the same reasons that Johnny is there.

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 8 Sep 2004 9:30 am

I think this is the same argument at heart as the spat over Pat Metheny and Kenny G.
Of course there are better players than Kenny G, but the man is successful because his music is accessible to a very large number of people.
In the classical field, I'd rather listen to Debussy than Beethoven. That's not because Beethoven is worse, but because with Debussy I can hear what he is doing and understand the how and why of it.
It's the same with JG. His music was immediately accessible to people who were not coming to steel with all the of the preconceptions of the people who had grown up in the Buddy camp. If you liked Prog rock, a Garcia steel solo was right down the line. The extra was that he was able to do the thing that only the really creative can manage. He could play a lick that you really wanted to hear, but did not know you wanted to hear till you heard it. Jimi H could do that too -and Bird and Diz etc etc....
It is very clear from a lot of the posts on here that Country is seen by many as an unchangeable and unchanging music. The unexpected is unwelcome. From that viewpoint JG is a serious threat- he knew his country music very well, but chose to do something different with it.
It looks as if Mr Randolph is the latest heretic shaking the foundations. In the backwood and hills, they'll be building the pyre anytime now.

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Cheers!
Dave

Jerry Clardy · Post by **Jerry Clardy** » 8 Sep 2004 12:11 pm

Jerry could play good music without worrying about any stinking "pecking order." Music being the bottom line and not technique. He certainly had enough technique to get his point across. The steel was just one of the musical colors he, as an artist, was using. Some people talk about Ralph Mooney with this limited technique argument. They are missing the point. From the looks of things, Robert Randolph will be making a big mark with music that is different from the mainstream country. But, I'm thinking it's about making music and not the kind of music.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 8 Sep 2004 5:32 pm

There is nothing here that I don't agree with. Some well thought out and presented statements.
I knew Jerry well enough to believe that he'd also agree with all of you,(and me).

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 8 Sep 2004 8:17 pm

121 posts. Not a bad run. Great reponses. Okay, next subject. Greco/Roman culture. Premise: The true Roman culture was neither Greco nor Roman. Discuss amongst yourselves.[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 08 September 2004 at 09:19 PM.][This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 08 September 2004 at 09:21 PM.]

Jerry Clardy · Post by **Jerry Clardy** » 8 Sep 2004 8:58 pm

May we compare the cold-war era Russian government and the Mao era of Chinese government instead?

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 9 Sep 2004 2:19 am

Chunky vs. Smooth?