Changing Strings?

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 25 Jun 2004 8:16 pm

A couple of my picking buddies were telling me his guitar(electric) had better tone, sustain and held better tuning by winding the whole string on
and didn't cut off any extra. Anybody tried this on guitar and steel?
Tony

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 26 Jun 2004 4:04 am

bull-oney
All it does is make it harder to remove if you break it onstage.

I do wrap SOME extra (certainly not ALL) on my 3rd string, to avoid any little burs in the hole in the post on the tuning machine sawing the string in half, but it doesn't sound any different.

As a matter of fact, I don't think you could wind the entire string onto the post -- especially the larger diameter ones. As far as the guitar is concerned, the string starts at the bridge and ends at the roller nut (or perhaps the tuning machine).

Changing your strings regularly (and only you can determine what schedule works best for you) will do much more to improve the sound than winding more string on the post.

Jusy MHO

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 26 Jun 2004 4:32 am

Some say "bull-oney," while others, like myself, say "horse puckey." Either way, the answer is the same.

The "Official Music Store Technique"

is to cut the string approximately 2 tuning peg shafts past the tuner the string is to be attached, about 2.5 - 3". One wrap pass is made on the inside of the string end extending from the peg hole, then the rest of the passes made on the opposite side, so that the string end is being pinched as the string is being wrapped around the shaft.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 26 Jun 2004 5:41 am

mega dittos, Larry Bell and Herb Steiner. Sounds to me like a "Joe Sixpack" tale.

carl

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 26 Jun 2004 6:05 am

Not cutting off the strings was a rather dopey trend that started with folk-singers back in the '60s. I can recall seeing dozens of folk music players with their strings wound in dopey little coils on the peghead. I think I've heard every dopey little excuse for this dopey trend from "Pete Seeger did it!" to "It's safer...keeps you from getting injured by a string end", and "It makes it ring like a Martin!".

Of course, even if you told your buddies it was dopey-looking, and that it really didn't help their sound, they wouldn't believe you. They have already made up their mind, and do not wish to be distracted by facts.

Carl West · Post by **Carl West** » 26 Jun 2004 6:39 am

I agree with "Horse-Pucky" and "Bull-Oney"!

Carl West

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 26 Jun 2004 7:41 am

Bluegrass guitarist Charlie Waller, of the Country Gentlemen, did that because he "hated the sound of new strings". When one broke at the saddle, he'd slide the ball end over the broken section, tie 'er up, unloose some of them windings at the tuner, and be good for another 60,000 miles.

The James Jamerson of bluegrass!

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff.

[This message was edited by John McGann on 26 June 2004 at 08:42 AM.]

Post by **Joey Ace** » 26 Jun 2004 7:43 am

I'll side with bull-only.

Two wraps for everything except the E9 .011 G#.
I like 5 wraps there. I have a superstition that that make's it last longer. This superstition only applies to that string.

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 26 Jun 2004 8:33 am

I'm with you all on this. I can't see where it would it make an improvement. Larry, I hate changing strings too so the less string the better.
Tony

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 26 Jun 2004 10:10 am

Tony, I would go one step further and say that the fewer wraps on the tuning peg the BETTER the tone but it would take a super sensitive sensor to note the difference. In theory tone is better if the vibration of the string can carry thru the tuning peg and back to the body. Extra windings would tend to dampen this vibration. This is absurd because of the minute undetectable difference but nevertheless it is true. Many people believe that the old Kluson keys sound better that the newer types that do not contact the keyhead hole except for the bushing nut. The point is, more windings can not have a positive effect on tone and more than likely would have an inmeasureable negative effect. Wow!
Jerry

Stephen LeBlanc · Post by **Stephen LeBlanc** » 26 Jun 2004 10:28 am

Tony, I would go one step further and say that the fewer wraps on the tuning peg the BETTER the tone but it would take a super sensitive sensor to note the difference

yep

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 26 Jun 2004 1:14 pm

Remember fellars, it was a guitar player not
a steel player that told me this. You know you can't believe a thing they tell you.
Hey Herb, try horse-hockey.
Tony

Mike Archer · Post by **Mike Archer** » 26 Jun 2004 3:06 pm

I gotta say im with larry bell and
herb on this one
good to hear from you tony
emailed you a couple times
wondered if you got um
im looking for oct and brisol how bout you?

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 26 Jun 2004 6:16 pm

All that, and you are putting more tension on the string to get it up to pitch because it is longer. The shorter the string between the held points, the less tension to get it up to pitch.

I think the mental physics can be explained by having a ten foot string brought up to G#. The reason it can't be done is the proof of the premise.

I use the aforementioned 2 or 3 diameter wraps, and two "keeper" wraps on the 17 on down in size.

EJL

Tony Smart · Post by **Tony Smart** » 27 Jun 2004 3:07 pm

I find the best way is to make sure the string lies in a straight line from the bridge, over the nut rollers and to the tuning key. Once you have got it right you can keep a list of the cut-length for each string. It saves time when changing a set.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 27 Jun 2004 4:40 pm

One could always try painting the strings with a nice clear lacquer, or perhaps a bright red enamel, and start a trend.

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 27 Jun 2004 5:33 pm

I’m surprised no one has talked about “locking the strings in.” That is the way I learned to put strings on some 50 years ago, and I still do it. I have taught every student I ever had to put strings on in this manner. I have never found a better way to keep them from slipping when tension is applied. I could easily draw a sketch to explain it, but it may be hard to write an understandable written description. I’ll try anyway.

Feed the end of the string through the hole in the peg, leaving one to two inches of slack. Don’t cut the end off yet. Turn the peg about half a turn in the direction that allows the main part of the string to pass over the nut then OVER the top of the peg. The end of the string should then be pointed back toward the nut. Now take the end of the string and wind it UNDER the peg in the opposite direction of the half turn until it is next to the point where the main part of the string enters the hole, then pull the end of the string tight as you wrap it a half-turn around the main part of the string. Continue winding the tuning key and you will find that the string is “locked in” by the string clamping itself against the peg. At this point you can cut the end off about one-quarter inch or less from the peg. It only takes a couple of turns around the peg to bring the string up to pitch and it is almost impossible for it to slip. I have never had a string to slip when locked in this way. The very large gages of wrapped strings are difficult to use this method on -- and they are less likely to slip because of the windings, so it is not really necessary on large gages. But I do them the same way regardless – even up through my largest string, a 0.52w.

I hope this description is half-way intelligible.

Try it; you’ll like it.

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 27 Jun 2004 6:32 pm

Roy, that's the way I do strings 1-4 because I had a problem with them slipping. I leave about 1-1/2 to 2 inches of string to wind for strings 5-10 and I wind the 5th & 6th on the end of the tuning shaft to keep them in a straight line. I don't really know if that helps with anything or not. I don't use the whole string as the ? I asked to begin this thread. Like Larry, the less to wind/unwind the better. I hate changing strings so I keep it as simple as I can.

Tony