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Topic: Anyone know this chord? |
Billy Murdoch
From:
Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.
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Posted 29 Feb 2004 10:12 am |
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At the start of our gig last night our singer suggested a new song and asked that we finish on a D7sharp9.
I play this easy on a six stringer but for the love of me I can't seem to get it on the steel.
Anyone know the easiest way
Thanks from Scotland
Billy |
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Jeff Lampert
From:
queens, new york city
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Posted 29 Feb 2004 10:42 am
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The key notes you have to play are, from bottom up, F#,C,F, assuming the bass player is supplying the root (D) note. On E9 tuning, at the 4th fret, play strings 9,6,5 with the A pedal. On C6 tuning, at the 5th fret, play strings 7,5,3 with pedal 8.
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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]
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Fred Amendola
From:
Lancaster, Pa.
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Posted 29 Feb 2004 10:44 am
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Hi Billy,
The chord you are looking for is the standard 8th pedal change on C6th, strings 3-5-7-10 at the 5th fret.
For E9, I can think of two ways to play it.
- The easiest is strings is 9-6-5 (you can add 8 or 4 also); 4th fret with pedal A and [E to F].
- Or to get it into a more common position, play a D9 chord at the 3rd fret; AB pedals, lower the E's; say strings 10-8-6, then add the 2nd string lowered a half tone.
Hope this helps.
Fred |
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Niklas Widen
From:
Uppsala, Sweden
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Posted 29 Feb 2004 10:46 am
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The easiest way of playing this with a full voicing on E9th, to me is
1----------------
2---3D------------
3----------------
4----------------
5----------------
6---3B------------
7---3------------
8---3E------------
9----------------
10--3------------
with D lowering second string 1/2 step. If you have both a whole tone lower and a half step raise, you could alter the top note from anything from the 9th to the 11th! I also use a higher voicing, up on the 10th fret, playing out of the "open" dom. 7th position, using the second string 1/2 step lower, adding the half step raise from the 9th to #9th on the first string.
well, didn't see the other replies! 
/Nicke W[This message was edited by Niklas Widen on 29 February 2004 at 10:47 AM.] |
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Mike Bagwell
From:
Greenville, SC, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2004 10:47 am
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E9 neck strings 9,6,and 5 A pedal down at the 4th fret. This will give the 3rd,b7 and #9 notes of the chord.
You could raise the 8th string a half tone and play it also, that would add the 5th.
On the C6 neck, press pedal 8 and play strings 3,5,6,7,8,10,.
Mike[This message was edited by Mike Bagwell on 29 February 2004 at 10:57 AM.] |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2004 11:25 am
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Everyone beat me to it. That 3 string voicing at the 4th fret contains the essence of the chord without getting too dense, and it's real easy to play. It's easy to remember, too, because it's always one fret below the pedals down position for the major chord.
Example:
D is 5th fret AB pedals, strings 8,6,5.
D7#9 is 4th fret A pedal, strings 9,6,5.
D7b9 is 4th fret no pedals, strings 9,6,5.
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 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 29 February 2004 at 11:28 AM.] |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2004 11:37 am
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Billy,
Jerry Byrd invented a tuning on his 6 string lap steel in the late 30's, that preceeded the 8th pedal on our D-10, C6 neck.
It is called A7/C6 and it is tuned as follows:
E
C
A
G
E
C#
If you analyze this tuning for a moment and think in terms of an A chord instead of a C chord it opens up, and shows what all the abover posters have poignantly said.
carl |
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Billy Murdoch
From:
Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.
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Posted 29 Feb 2004 12:31 pm
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Thanks everyone for your very early replies.
Where would I be without the "Forum"?
Billy |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 29 Feb 2004 1:08 pm
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| probably still in Glasgow, Scotland, U.K. |
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Karlis Abolins
From:
(near) Seattle, WA, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2004 2:21 pm
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| edited to remove obvious error. [This message was edited by Karlis Abolins on 01 March 2004 at 06:20 AM.] |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2004 4:21 pm
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hmmmm Karlis,
C# on the 5th string is a major 7th for a D chord. Rather than a 7th (called flat 7 in England). Not sure this is the same as a raised 9th chord like pedal 8 on a D-10.
Am I incorrect?
carl |
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Karlis Abolins
From:
(near) Seattle, WA, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2004 7:19 pm
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Carl, I stand corrected. To get the D Dom 7 9#, you have to flat the 7 to C.
Karlis |
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John Steele (deceased)
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 29 Feb 2004 7:31 pm
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I'm with b0b and Jeff. Just play the rootless 3 note voicing for the chord - that's what the guy is asking you to do. 3,7, & #9.
There are lots of other voicings for the chord, but that's academic.
-John [This message was edited by John Steele on 29 February 2004 at 07:52 PM.] |
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John Steele (deceased)
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 29 Feb 2004 7:36 pm
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Another related point.
Imho, when someone says "seventh", it's assumed to be the flattened seventh. Or minor, or diminished, or dominant, or whatever you like to call it. No need to waste breath on that.
If the seventh is intended to be major, they will specify that.
If someone says it's a G7 chord, they don't specifically point out that the seventh is flattened -it's implied. They do however point it out if it isn't... i.e. GMaj7
-John
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www.ottawajazz.com [This message was edited by John Steele on 29 February 2004 at 07:53 PM.] |
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Karlis Abolins
From:
(near) Seattle, WA, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2004 6:18 am
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John, You are absolutely right. I feel like I have egg all over my face for such a bonehead error. But on a related vein. The issue of 3 note abstracts of complex chords seems to come from the limitations of 3 pick fingering on the e9th copedant. Is there anyone who has put together acceptable 3 note abbreviations for the whole list of complex chords? The 3 note abstracts have always puzzled me.
Karlis |
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Dr. Hugh Jeffreys
From:
Southaven, MS, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2004 6:25 am
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| By spreading all five fingers (piano style), I play (from bottom up): I V III VII +IX or D A F# C F ----- HJ |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2004 6:52 am
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John,
Very respectfully, it depends on where one resides when they say "7th". There are musicians (particularly in England) where a 7th means a major 7th to us. Our 7th means a flatted 7th to them.
Like metric versus SAE, there is some merit to what they say. IE, C D E G A B C or 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. Note the 7th tone is NOT Bb rather it is B. Because of this anamoly, there is, from the onset, some built-in confusion in our musical notations that is absent from theirs.
Just as there is in inches, lbs and MPH. The metric system removes all that. It is sad that in America, we chose a really archaic system of measurements; and I find this also somewhat true when it comes to calling C E G Bb a 7th. We call C E Gb a flatted 5th, why not call C E G Bb a flatted 7th?
Again, you are correct IF we think of us. but for them I believe they would be justified in calling it a flatted 7th.
My thoughts anyway,
carl |
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Russ Wever
From:
Kansas City
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Posted 1 Mar 2004 8:18 am
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"Dominant Seventh" is the term for a seventh tone that is five-tones above a Root.
Dominant Seventh
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Jeff Lampert
From:
queens, new york city
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Posted 1 Mar 2004 12:25 pm
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| Quote: |
| 3 note abstracts of complex chords seems to come from the limitations of 3 pick fingering on the e9th |
This in not correct. Many (if not most) jazz theorists commonly acknowledge that the only tones of a chord that really matter are the 3rd, 7th, and any extensions. In the case of a D7#9, the 3rd is F#, the 7th is C, and the #9 extension is F, so only 3 notes are necessary. Also, there are jazz guitar rhythm techniques based exclusively on 3-note chords no matter what the chord charts are calling for. And all of this precedes by decades whatever steel guitarists have developed in terms of their understanding of chordal techniques. With that being said, there is no reason not to include other tones with your chords in order to embellish the chord, or even to substitute uncharted notes in order to vary the harmony, and it is not difficult to accomplish this with the standard 2 finger and 1 thumb picks. The idea of 3-note chords is most certainly NOT the province of E9 players.
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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]
[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 01 March 2004 at 12:27 PM.] |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2004 12:51 pm
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Jeff,
Very well said.
carl |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 1 Mar 2004 1:14 pm
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| Sounds like Freddie Green, Jeff! |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 1 Mar 2004 10:26 pm
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Carl,
Please add to your list that you all drive on the wrong side of the road as well !! |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2004 7:18 am
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Jeff Lampert
From:
queens, new york city
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Posted 2 Mar 2004 7:25 am
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Sure enough Stephen. Other players too seem to like this technique, apparently for the fact that a single 3-note chord form can be used in many different ways. Check out the link.
http://www.folkblues.com/theory/3note_text_1.htm
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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 2 Mar 2004 5:02 pm
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| Richard, is it true "7th" means major 7th in England, and the flatted 7th would be referred to specifically as a "minor" or "flatted" 7th? I learned that "7th" meant flatted 7th unless "major" 7th was specified when I was a kid taking classical piano lessons. I, IV and V7b were "tonic, subdominant and dominant 7th." I just assumed that terminology came from Europe. I can assure you my piano teacher knew and cared nothing about jazz or steel guitar. [This message was edited by David Doggett on 02 March 2004 at 05:04 PM.] |
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