1/2 pay for steel players

Kevin Chriss · Post by **Kevin Chriss** » 18 Feb 2004 3:34 pm

Has anyone ran into bands that only wanted to pay their steel players 1/2 pay? Their argument is that steel guitar is really an embellishment and you can do without them. Also, they don't even play all the time.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 18 Feb 2004 3:54 pm

In that case, you should leave when the gig is half over.

Leroy Riggs · Post by **Leroy Riggs** » 18 Feb 2004 4:02 pm

Just hit the correct chord 1/2 the time!

autry andress · Post by **autry andress** » 18 Feb 2004 4:06 pm

The Real reason is: They are not playing country music...[This message was edited by autry andress on 18 February 2004 at 07:11 PM.]

Post by **Joey Ace** » 18 Feb 2004 4:11 pm

Play everything a half step lower.

Will this band pay you double if you play another instrument?

Jim West · Post by **Jim West** » 18 Feb 2004 4:19 pm

That's easy, just play all the time on every song. Don't be afraid to earn your pay! It's also a good way to get paid for practice.

David Holden · Post by **David Holden** » 18 Feb 2004 4:39 pm

Get a double neck, tell them it's really 2 instruments, and demand to get paid twice as much.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 18 Feb 2004 4:45 pm

Kevin, those bands you speak of have class. Unfortunately, most of it is low.

Just remember, no one can take advantage of you without your cooperation.

Chris Bauer · Post by **Chris Bauer** » 18 Feb 2004 4:48 pm

Reminds me of the guy who wanted to know if his studio rate could be pro-rated beacuse his song was only three minutes long.

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 18 Feb 2004 4:50 pm

Tell them if they want to pay 1/2 and that is because they can do without you, then do without you and quit. See if they really want to do without you. I always tell them I should get higher pay cause I work harder setting up equipment and I also work harder....

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 18 Feb 2004 5:01 pm

Reminds me of my first band in St Louis when I was about 18 or 19, just starting to play out on steel. One night, about halfway thru the 1st set, the bass player's amp blew up and I ended up lending him mine so the band could finish the gig. I just sat out in the audience and enjoyed the show. Then, when we got back, they tried to cut my pay because I didn't play all night!!

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 18 Feb 2004 5:31 pm

First a related story. I believe you will see the connection.

I once had a question from a young technician. He said, "I worked on this set for over 8 hours, and finally found the problem to be a broken connection on the PC board. It was a bugger to find. That is all it was. I just don't have the heart to charge the customer for 8 hours work when I used NO parts."

I said, "Never EVER be ashamed of your time expended. Your Doctor isn't; nor is your attorney. Don't you be. Would you have the heart to charge the customer for parts they did not need just to justify your labor? MOST of the dishonest technicians would do that! You look them in the eye and tell them 160 dollars for labor, cuz your competitors will charge them 160 for labor plus 160 for parts they did NOT need!"

If a band leader told me what he told you, I would be sayonara yesterday. "I do the time; you pay for it. Or I am outta here."

carl

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 18 Feb 2004 5:32 pm

I recall when a musician doubled on a second instrument.........he got EXTRA PAY! These were working musicians.

Nowadays, the more instruments one can have standing in racks along side his chair, the more status is seems to project. Odd shapes, sparkling glitter, bright colors, and working without or for minimal pay, is second to "the glory" of being on stage.

I can't help but feel that many so-called musicians have brought this kind of disrespect to bear on all of our shoulders.
Oh well, let the temperature rise!

Pride in one's work establishes the value of one's artistic contribution to a musical presentation. A record producer once told a very famous steel guitarist that he "lacked dynamics". That steel player who didn't need that kind of crappola, merely packed his gear and left the studio. Those kind of disrespectful remarks are NOT NEGOTIABLE. No one who calls himself a "musician" should EVER be so anxious to play that he prostitutes his talent or willingly gives it away.[This message was edited by Ray Montee on 18 February 2004 at 05:36 PM.]

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 18 Feb 2004 6:43 pm

Their argument is that steel guitar is really an embellishment

Tell them you are an embellishment to their credability as a band and Goodbye all in the same breath.

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 18 Feb 2004 6:51 pm

What John said.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 18 Feb 2004 7:09 pm

Sign me up with THAT band!.. I'll bring my steel.. and my chainsaw...

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 18 Feb 2004 7:59 pm

It's a dog eat dog world out there. I guess there is always what you expect to be paid, and then what they want to pay you. Negotiating is always a job that takes guts. If there aren't many steel players in your neck of the woods, you've got the advantage. I'd charge them by the song... Some songs just cost more than others...like for instance, the ones they want you to play.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 18 Feb 2004 8:16 pm

I usually tell people that if they offer me peanuts then a monkey is all they're gonna get.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Jack Francis · Post by **Jack Francis** » 18 Feb 2004 9:46 pm

This type of situation really frosts me.

I make my living as a sign painter/artist.
From time to time, after I quote a job, people will ask if I can do the job for 1/3 or so, less than I quote. I answer in the affirmative then add, "What part of your graphics do you want me to omit?" "Your paying for my time as well as my talents."

These people would NEVER make such a request of thier doctor, the butcher or the plumber...but to artist types it seems a reasonable question.

We weekend warriors, are only being paid for the time we take to lug all this stuff around....we don't really get paid enough
to entertain, but for the most part we do it because we love it and get satisfaction from performing with the talents we have worked hard to develop.

We wouldn't put up with this kind of disrespect on our jobs but we sure do with our music.

Tell him NO CHANCE...then leave.[This message was edited by Jack Francis on 18 February 2004 at 09:47 PM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 19 Feb 2004 1:09 am

I've NEVER played for less than 50$ and I NEVER will. Anything less and I'd be cutting my own and others' throats that are trying to get paid even that piddly sum.

Never.

That's right.

Never. Not in more than 2 thousand gigs and twenty five years.

EJL

Anders Brundell · Post by **Anders Brundell** » 19 Feb 2004 1:45 am

No, Kevin.
That's an unfair deal, and we should all be at least reasonably fair to each others. Furthermore, I bet none of the other band members would accept such a deal for themselves.

Anders

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 19 Feb 2004 1:55 am

Seems like that band leader is running on half a values system...

It's one thing to have some one not booked come and sit in, and another to book someone and then want them to do it on the cheap.

I was told part way into rehearsals that we could also add some country to a set of other music. But then we would need another player for s small part of the show, but not all, of the night.

I opted not to call a friend and offer him half pay, rather than temp him with B.S.
Nor short all the other guys to make it all even. We just stay in style that's that.

On the other hand there is another player for the 1st style we will play all night, who is coming just to listen, but is welcome to sit in if he wants. A fine player too on a compatible instrument we don't have.

If he plays a lot, I might give him the PA rental money, since I am not renting.
Half pay yes, but he isn't expecting to be paid, and is doing no rehearsals.

He is just coming for the fun and is not worried about it.
Still if he does sit in a lot I would think about paying him something anyway.

Anybody who tries to short a steel player he is booking, has no clue about the work needed to move, set up, and play well on this wonderful instrument, and therefor doesn't deserve, nor warrerent, a good player on his stage.

Jim Cohen, you should have charged that band the cost of renting an amp for the night, often more than the players get.
Plus your part of the night playing fee.
They got lucky you were so gracious as to just sit out at that.

I have also set a minimum with my current band much like Eric's choice.
I want to help establish the band regionally, but not give cheap club owners free entertainment if the night is slow,
because they don't advertise,
and expect the band to PROVIDE all their customers for them.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 19 February 2004 at 01:58 AM.]

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 19 Feb 2004 6:42 am

True story: While I was attending college in Louisville, KY I got a gig playing a noon radio show from a local furniture store. When the leader called to offer me the job I asked what it paid. He said, "Union Scale." I usually got quite a bit over scale, but this job was near the college and fit in very well with my schedule, so I accepted it. The show was on the air Monday through Friday, and we were told that we could stop by the store on Saturday and pick up our pay. When I went in to get my check it was exactly one half of union scale. I asked for the store owner and questioned the amount. He said, "I called Mr. Steubin at the union office and he authorized the job as half of scale." I told him I was quitting. He threatened to have the union fine me for quitting without notice, but I walked out anyway. Steubin called me later and challenged me, and I told him where to put it. I never heard any more about the situation. [This message was edited by Roy Ayres on 19 February 2004 at 06:44 AM.]

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 19 Feb 2004 6:58 am

"Mr. Ayers, I'm with the Union, and I'm here to help you."

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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 19 Feb 2004 8:19 am

Alright Roy, don't keep us in suspense!! Where did you tell him to put it, and I want to really know if it fit there!...

I don't do shortcut gigs, I get full pay or I get full mad. You don't want my steel and my talents, no problem. But, make damned sure you don't advertise with my name, however unknown it may be, it may cost you more than full pay. IT COULD HaPPEN.

I agreee with Eric W., you play for peanuts, you not only lower your esteem, but you cut the throats of "real musicians".

fred

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The spirit be with you!
If it aint got a steel, it aint real