A New "Music City"??

About Steel Guitarists and their Music

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Herb Steiner
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Post by Herb Steiner »

<SMALL>It may be after a lot of us are gone, but there will be a resurgence and a small but loyal group of followers will keep it alive. Nothing as good as our kind of music can ever die.</SMALL>
Roy, you're right... I hope. Image I recall a conversation I had with Leon McAuliffe back in 1975. I was on Alvin Crow's band and we were doing a big WS show with the TX Playboys. I told Leon I thought it was great that Western Swing was making a comeback. He said "yeah Herb, it's wonderful. It's too bad I'm too old to enjoy it."

About moving to Austin: the town is better for live music opportunities than where you're currently living, I can almost guarantee that. But it is not the 1970's anymore. And be aware that Austin is the most expensive city in Texas to live. Bring your day job with you... and money.

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<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 11 January 2004 at 11:03 AM.]</p></FONT>
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Bob Hoffnar
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Post by Bob Hoffnar »

Damir,
Did you actually read my post ?

For you guys that like to trash NYC have fun complaining. But if you want to be busy playing with some of the best and most challenging musicians on the planet come on up.

Just so you guys know the corporate suits doing the most damage to country radio work out of San Antonio, Texas. So don't keep pointing your fingers at Nashville and NYC.

Clear Channel Communications (parent company of Premiere Radio Networks, Inc.) 200 Basse Road San Antonio TX 78209 Phone 1-210-822-2828

Lowry Mays, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
LLowryMays@clearchannel.com

So if you need to blame a geographic location because it makes you feel good the most likely city to blame would be San Antonio. Or you could blame Bentonville, Ark for the Wal-Martization of local cultures.

Roy,
Exactly what you are talking about is happening here in NYC. On any given night in Brooklyn there at 100 Hank tunes being played at bars all over town. The great stuff will never die.

Bob
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Chris Lasher
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Post by Chris Lasher »

The only thing I see wrong here is older generations giving up hope on younger generations. Then again, that's nothing new. Perhaps your grandfolks thought you were going to ruin the world, too, just as their grandfolks lamented the "golden days are gone" and how it was all "going downhill from there."

Many people have prophesized the end of the world. So far, none of them have been correct. I'm betting they won't be, at least not in my lifetime.

Just because the "Country music" that you knew and loved does not draw in droves of audiences anymore does not mean there aren't people who will be there to appreciate it after its heyday. I put my experiences as a case in point. Charlie Vaughn kindly invited me to come out and hear the Atlanta Country Music Hall of Fame jams this past year. I can count the number of songs that were played that I knew on the fingers of one hand. At the same time, it was great to hear them played, especially live.

There were two other young men about my age, one who sang on the stand there, and another who I believe did a set with a group in the bluegrass room that I missed. There was also a young lady there who I don't even believe was in high school yet, who played two numbers on fiddle with the guys in the country jam room. It's because these guys are out there still playing the music they love that makes it possible for it to be passed down the generations. I can guarantee you that it won't ever be played like it was "back then," but as long as it's taught, you can be rest assured that someone, somewhere, is still playing it.

When the "Fusion Jazz" movement arose, the older players and critics cried foul and said that it would be the death of jazz. Well, by that point, the audiences for bebop groups had thinned out, yet the fusion jazz audiences began to build. And it was through the fusion jazz that what came before was connected to present. Some of those people in the audience even went so far as to explore "what came before the present; what influenced the present," and "re-discovered" for themselves the treasures of the past: the John Coltranes, the Dave Brubecks, the Thelonius Monks, the Barney Kessels, heck, maybe even going back to the Duke Ellingtons.

Some of those audience members are musicians who will start playing the old time music to replicate it. One could maybe find it difficult to believe, but there are still some bands out there, such as the Jim Cullum jazz band, that play Dixieland Jazz, a form that came several generations before fusion jazz, and they still have audiences. The audiences are, of course, small, and oftentimes enjoy the music as a novelty, but maybe a young musician in the Jim Cullum jazz band audience will go on to continue keeping Dixieland Jazz alive in its true form. Likewise, yesterday I talked to a tenor saxophonist who plays Parker and Getz tunes at various gigs here in Athens, who is a fine fellow and player. Jazz did not die.

More often, though, musicians, will assimilate the sounds of the past, absorb them, and combine them with the sounds that come from their own explorations and experiences, to craft something that feels personally "theirs".

I think every generation of music depends on this second process. Every new "style" or "genre" of music is the product of two things: the music that came before it, combined with the new generation's struggle for a unique identity.

This means that earlier generations of music continue to live on through the current generations. There is still Hank Williams, Sr. in Montgomery Gentry, even if you don't think you can hear it because of all the other influences that factored into their sound. Each generation reinvents the wheel, and even though it looks like a square, it's still a wheel at the core.

Perhaps the music business has been perverted by people in suits who don't care for the music that they seek to make their fortunes from. That is something I can neither confirm nor deny. Yet, even if industry moguls are leading audiences to bad water, you can't deny that the majority is still drinking. It is your responsibility as a musician to play what you find as your truth with integrity and conviction, and lead your audiences to good water. If things work in your favor and they drink, congratulations, but if not, you will not feel downtrodden because you know you've been doing your best. Either way, you can not stop playing with integrity and conviction, and you can not give up faith, or you've already failed what it is you set out to do, and you become part of your own problem.

So keep playing, and trust future generations to do well.

Thank you for attention and patience. I will return it.

Chris<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Chris Lasher on 11 January 2004 at 11:39 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Chris Lasher on 11 January 2004 at 11:43 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Chris Lasher on 11 January 2004 at 11:48 AM.]</p></FONT>
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Damir Besic
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Post by Damir Besic »

maybe I should move to New York then.But the best musicians on the planet I`m interested in are right here in Nashville.San Antonio?I don`t know anything about San Antonio so you might be right.The heart of Country music recording industry is right here in Nashville and radios are playing only what they get payed to play by the big labels anyway.It`s all about the money.There is no 100 Hank tunes played in Nashville,at least I never heard them.I can`t even remember when I heard one live or on the radio last time here.I get emotional talking about situation of country music so I try to stay away from topics like this one,there is nothing I can do to help get real country music back so why bother and get all out of shape.I have better things to do.Just don`t listen country radio anymore.

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Joe Drivdahl
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Post by Joe Drivdahl »

When I ask young people why they don't like country music, its always the same answer: They don't want to hear about losing their woman, or their dog dying, or whatever. We all know this hasn't really been the case in country for a long time. What they are really saying is, the theme in most country music songs is sad. They seem to like songs such as "5:00 Somewhere" because the words are upbeat. I don't like care for 5:00 Somewhere because its too commercial. What we need are songs with upbeat lyrics, and a traditional country feel then we'll all be satisfied. What we need is Bob Wills Jr.

jd
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Chris Lasher
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Post by Chris Lasher »

<SMALL>When I ask young people why they don't like country music, its always the same answer: They don't want to hear about losing their woman, or their dog dying, or whatever.</SMALL>
I find it slightly amusing that you say this when "There Goes My Life", sang by Kenny Chesney, is the #1 single on the charts today, followed by Alan Jackson's "Remember When" at #2. Image Image Image

Edit: Ah! Perhaps I misread! If you are talking to young people who don't even listen to what is called "country" today, and that is there response, that is understandable. I don't think that is an audience you could really aim to court, just as old-school hip-hop troupes aren't trying to court you. Image<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Chris Lasher on 11 January 2004 at 01:01 PM.]</p></FONT>
Theresa Galbraith
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Post by Theresa Galbraith »

Without reading every post.
I think you all need to get a life and over the past.

Theresa
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Chris Lasher
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Post by Chris Lasher »

Haha, Theresa, you're awesome! Image x 1,000
Theresa Galbraith
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Post by Theresa Galbraith »

Chris,
I appreciate it! Image
John Macy
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Post by John Macy »

Quote:

"The heart of Country music recording industry is right here in Nashville and radios are playing only what they get payed to play by the big labels anyway"

If you think the labels are dictating what radio plays, you're a bit dilusional....
Rick McDuffie
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Post by Rick McDuffie »

Back in the 60's I wanted my Dad to take me to Fayetteville, NC to see Buck Owens. He said, "No... that's not country music." Image

Of course, he was a Roy Acuff man back then. I'm sure he see things somewhat differently now.

This post wasn't intended to pit traditionalists against modernists... it was more about how "real" country music might thrive outside Nashville... and how "unsigned" artists might continue to have places to play.

I guess I WAS suggesting that this IS "the peoples' music" and that it'll continue to thrive as a cottage industry regardless of what the big money says.

I think it's erroneous to believe that all young people are negative about traditional country, or that the older crowd doesn't like the rockin' stuff. My Mom, who's 70 now, is a serious Charlie Daniels fan... and I (cut my guitar teeth on Led Zeppelin and Grand Funk) love to hear the steel guitar and twin fiddles. The world just ain't that black and white.

And, like any real child of the 60's, I'm always in the mood for a revolution. Image

Rick<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 11 January 2004 at 01:55 PM.]</p></FONT>
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HowardR
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Post by HowardR »

<SMALL>They don't want to hear about losing their woman, or their dog dying, or whatever.</SMALL>
That can't be the reason, or even a reason.

Operas haven't died. Why do people go to the Opera? Have you ever seen or heard of an Opera that wasn't about murder, suicide, death, infidelity, and/or adultury?

HUH?
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Chris Lasher
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Post by Chris Lasher »

So I guess, in a way, you could say that the fat lady hasn't sung for Opera?...

Haha, oh, come on, I know you grinned.

Rick, I think Country music will thrive anywhere it's played with true spirit. I'm still confused as to why you want to have a music city different than Nashville, which is just a figurehead for Country music around the world. It might be easier to start a revolution within "the system" than it would be to try to build another one to compete.

And my apologies for drawing this further into a old v. new topic.

...But I still think Theresa said it best. Image Alright, I'm off to get a life.
Theresa Galbraith
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Post by Theresa Galbraith »

Chris,
Image
Gene Jones
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Post by Gene Jones »

If the radio stations are playing what the fans are requesting....does that not show that we who are advocating traditional Country Music are following a "lost cause"?

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Post by Theresa Galbraith »

Image
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Eric West
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Post by Eric West »

Gene..

You mean there's a "Lost Cause" that I Missed...?

Can't let that happen...

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EJL
Theresa Galbraith
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Post by Theresa Galbraith »

Ha! Ha!
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Leigh Howell
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Post by Leigh Howell »

I think longing for the old days is a normal thing. The older I get I find myself longing for the days when I used to fish with a safety pin for a hook! Ran barefoot thru thru the hills etc. I feel the same about country music. It wont ever be as I remember it when I was younger. No more than I will ever run barefoot thru the hills again. But I can still remember how it was, and enjoy the old songs that I have in my collection, and enjoy other kinds of music as well.And as someone said there are many young folks enjoying, and playing traditional country as well.I dont think it will ever disappear. And I dont think there's a conspiracy to get rid of it.
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Post by Theresa Galbraith »

I guess it's like being compared to an ex-wife or ex-husband. It was in the past.
John Steele
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Post by John Steele »

I've spent alot of time pondering this, and come to this disappointing conclusion;
If you play traditional country, then you play "period music". And I'm not talking about this period either.
Add yourself to the list of artists interested in something that's been pressed into a historical frame, never to be "new" again, but beautiful nonetheless.
Yup. Swing players, classical players, singers of Gregorian Chants... we're all in it together.
-John

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Kenny Dail
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Post by Kenny Dail »

I haven't heard of a country station yet that would take requests. They are all playing the programs that they have "subscribed to." There maybe an occaisional "Indy" that only has about a 1000 watts to push their signal that has the guts enough to take a request. And if they were a subscriber to the NCS format, they would not take requests either.

In fact I don't know of a country station...period.

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kd...and the beat goes on...

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Eric West
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Post by Eric West »

Gene, and others.

A letter I read from Mr Schmit put me on to a "Theory"

His equation he said was passed on to him was stunningly simple.

A=Audience
R=Reduction
T=Technique.

I was about to let it go until I remembered MY initial immersion with Live Music. The Old SHows, like Billy Walker, Hank Snow and the like were almost Supernatural in their imprinting on me. This was WAY before any casual drug use.

Later the times I spent listening to Bud Charleton and the String Dusters, at Hunters Lodge, and Don West at the Village Barn similarly left me permamantly imprinted.

They had done their jobs RIGHT. At many times since, I have passed on Concert Tickets, as I still regularly do, and the only reason is because I've "Seen The Best" and it really was "enough".

All I have to do to see HS and the Rainbow Ranch Boys sparkling under the carbon arc lights, or Bud Charleton and the String Dusters taking my breath away with "Thunder Road" is to just close my eyes and remember. They did their jobs That Well

I think of My 'Career' playing for audiences. Such as it has been.

Every time I do, I make an effort to go out and talk to people. I feel this sincere urge to tell them, especially if they drink too much, that if anything I want to inspire them, and they'll be able to live their lives without a constant "empty feeling" for "entertainment". I always tell them to "come back with friends", but I get this feeling that I get when I'm lying to somebody. I DO mean it when I tell them to "Drive Careful", and I note the difference between the sincerity of the two.

It's dawned on me that with many of us, that it is our aim to somehow impart things to them that help their "souls" and make them less deficient to the point where they're out there "carousing".

I know it's kind of stupid, and I don't claim to be a rocket scientist, but let's consider maybe that instead of people not liking "our music" being the reason that Austin has now about 10% of the "live country music" that Portland had twenty years ago, maybe it's because Our Music, and live performance of it, has done what we, in our better moments, have wanted it to do.

In short, maybe it's made people feel more "whole". You don't see that many idiots with chicken feathers in their hats 'looking for love' anymore.

Maybe we helped them find it, or at least stop looking for it "in all the wrong places."

Maybe if we'd "known that" we'd have "choked up a little"....

I know it's a stupid thought, but sometimes the best of them are just "stupid thoughts" that no one else thought of before..

SSM as they say...

( .... music plays in the background...,. " (Hello I'm a Jukebox)....... "Tonite the jukebox......")


Maybe it's just the Cops and the MAD Mothers...

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EJL<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Eric West on 12 January 2004 at 01:35 AM.]</p></FONT>
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David L. Donald
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Post by David L. Donald »

Damir I have to agree with Bob Hoffner.

NYC is the best music place on the planet.
24/7 anything you want, and all of the best pass through town on tours.

If you think there is one brilliant guitarist in a million poaple, then there are at minimum 7-10 in NYC and environs.
But in reality there are more.
Not tons of steelers there, but the ones I HAVE heard were great...
uh and Jeff Lampert's there too.

I have seen more of the best music in my 5 years there than anywhere.

I have been debating coming back to the USA, but couldn't think where.
I had thought Nasville a bit, or Austin, but this post kinda kills either in my mind.

I love NYC, but the cost of putting a studio there is prohibitive.
But musically it is heaven.

Oh yeah I had a bluegrass band in NYC,
we gigged 4-5 nights a week for good money. Better than Austin pay from what I read here.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 12 January 2004 at 02:42 AM.]</p></FONT>
Gene Jones
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Post by Gene Jones »

......Maybe it's just the Cops and the MAD Mothers! Eric......

That may very well be the primary reason! The fans of the country music era that used to be, were totally involved in their quest...as the current outing was winding down they were already making plans with their friends where to go "next" weekend! But, the enjoyment of those events always included the liberal consumption of "spirits", either from a discrete bottle from the bootlegger during prohibition days, or the legal liquor of the later "Club" days.....and of course the biggest fan base of country music MAY have been the weekend crowds around a Juke Box with the volumn maxed in thousands of beer joints all over the USA.

But all those folks had to get in their cars and find their way home after those fun outings, and the days of the police "looking the other way" as long as a driver could still walk without staggering, eventually ended. Driving under the influence citations began to severely penalize violators with substantial fines, and many began to see "jail" time. The fun crowd stopped going out on weekends for fear of getting caught in a road-block with alcohol on their breath, and having to face the Boss on Monday morning and the possible loss of their job.

I'm not unhappy about having fewer drunk drivers to avoid on our streets and highways.....strict traffic enforcement and MAD has given the public a safer environment and undoubtedly saved many lives.

My hypothesis: Was the public's enjoyment of country music during the golden era because they were loyal fans of the music....or was it primarily because of the "party environment" that accompanied it?

I dunno....I only know that it's gone, and Eric only needed one line to say everything I've said! Image
www.genejones.com <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 12 January 2004 at 06:17 AM.]</p></FONT>
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