It Ain't Just The Money......

Bob Farlow · Post by **Bob Farlow** » 4 Dec 2003 4:39 am

that keeps younger wannabee steel players from getting into steel playing. I think the
lack of good teachers has the most influence
on whether or not someone lays out several thousand dollars to buy a rig when they know they may never meet their goals without good solid instruction from someone who will take the time to nurture them through the rough times ahead. Lack of funds can be overcome with time and hard work, but lack of good instruction is harder to overcome than the money. I know because I've been there. So, who are you going to help today? If we "take", we oughta "give". Shouldn't we?

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 4 Dec 2003 5:15 am

I believe you may be onto something. I do believe the money has a lot to do with young people wanting to play. I know a couple of guys who want a steel so bad but do not want to spend the amount of money it takes to buy one. You can get a simple E9th for a good price these days but I think they do not realize a steel is costly no matter what model you buy. Also there are no professional teachers around here that I know of. I have offered many times to help get them started but these guys just back away. Maybe they do not have the desire to play one. I bought my 1st steel in 1979 after listening to steel on radio and TV. I had a desire to play one and still have the desire to this day. I hope we can get more young people to learn to play this instrument.

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 4 Dec 2003 5:58 am

Most of the problem that I've had with teaching is that most of my students don't have the discipline needed to get over the learning curve of the steel when they don't sound very good. I give them all kinds of material to learn, then when they come to the next lesson, they don't appear to have practiced. I cannot impart my knowledge on them by osmosis, they have to do some hard work themselves. Although I must admit most of my students have been older cats as opposed to young people, I don't think that they have the fire needed to overcome the obstacles the steel offers.

Mike Sweeney · Post by **Mike Sweeney** » 4 Dec 2003 6:40 am

Check my thread "Should The Boot Camp Stay Or Go". I don't believe this.

Cliff Oliver · Post by **Cliff Oliver** » 4 Dec 2003 6:40 am

If you want to play or learn to play bad enough, you will get a steel. Lacey is right.
Saying you want to do it and doing it are worlds apart. Most will blame not doing it on the lack of funds, but wont quibble about dropping $20k on a car. The greatest obsticle is desire, real desire.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 4 Dec 2003 6:50 am

John,

I have had the same experience. The following are just some of the comments I was told upon students arriving for the next lesson:

1. "Sorry carl, but I haven't had a chance to even take it out of the case since my last lesson, I been sooo busy.

2. "Been so busy I only practiced one day for about 20 minutes".

3. "Sorry I missed the last 3 lessons. But I got this job and I had to do it".

4. "Sorry carl, had to baby sit the kids, my wife got sick. So I didn't get a chance to practice"

And on and on. So ittitated by it, I finally said, "nope, I am not interested in wasting time."

I shall not attempt it again. The drive, dedication and effort necessary to learn to play the steel guitar is rarely found. I am convinced, THAT is the major reason there are soo few players; more than any other reason. It simply must be an "eat, sleep MUST do" obsession; where nothing else interferes; or it is total waste of time.

Learning to play the steel, as you say, is NOT going to happen by osmosis. Unless a student is openly and willingly determined to give it their all, it will simply be a case in futility.

There is always an excuse when one does not have the above. And NEVER an excuse when one has it. Sadly 99% do NOT have it.

May Jesus bless those who have it and have given us sooooo much joy lo these many years. And may he bless all of you always,

carl

Ward Wilsey · Post by **Ward Wilsey** » 4 Dec 2003 6:54 am

Respectfully disagree,

I have found the steel instruction to be top notch. Don Curtis is a heckuva instructor and guy. I also have the up from the top series from Jeff Newmann, which explains the AB pedals in extensive detail. These two factors have improved my playing exponentially. I never had a teacher for regular guitar to compare to. But I will compare the videos. Jeff Newmann's stuff is ten times better for learning than any guitar video I ever bought (many). I've heard that other videos, Joe Wright, ect. are just as good, and I can't wait to progress to those. I don't think there's a steel playing instruction glut. Ward

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 4 Dec 2003 7:41 am

I'm an experienced teacher of pedal steel guitar, non-pedal steel, and dobro. My experience has been that children up to about the age of 20 are far easier to teach than are adults.

While the excuse/reason "I just don't have the time" may be frustrating to the teacher, the fact of life is that many adults simply ARE stretched by other demands and activities that ARE more important than learning the steel guitar.

Job and family? Hummph... funny what some people feel is important, huh?

I've heard the story, no doubt true, that Jerry Byrd told a student who said "I don't have the time" that "you have lots of time, you just choose to spend it doing something else instead of practicing the steel."

I'm not going to make learning steel guitar a guilt-trip for my students. I just try to provide the inspiration and the knowledge for the hour of time they rent from me to assist them in solving their perceived problem... that they don't know how to play the steel guitar. My payoff is the $40 they pay to sit with me for an hour and pick my brain, watch how I play, and listen to the instruction and explanations I provide. I heavily stress practice of course, but I don't consider not practicing to be a personal affront.

There have been two or three students I have gently had to "let go" since their lack of progress, due to no practice time, did become ultimately frustrating for me. But that two or three is a small percentage of those I've instructed.

There is the occasional pay-off when I get a student who excels. I have one student who is a retired engineer that is an active practicer and "gets it." A least four of my students I know have gone into semi-professional playing, but these are men in their early 20's, and they had the desire to persevere. These are the type of student I have to seriously prepare for each lesson, since their progress can get ahead of what I've got ready for them.

And I again have a student now who is a "natural." Never saw a steel guitar up close until her first lesson. But is totally hooked and her first time behind a steel immediately took the correct hand/body position. She had the hand/eye coordination to instinctively grasp the basic chord grips. She is also 12 years old, smart as a whip, is a barrel racer, and plays tenor saxophone in the school band. A pleasure to teach, I have no doubt she'll make a steel player if her interest doesn't get diluted.
She is a teenager, after all.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 4 Dec 2003 8:09 am

The pedal steel guitar has a very large rejection rate for people who try to play it. Upwards of 90% from what I've seen. Most people neither have the talent nor are they willing to devote the enormous time involved in conquering this instrument even on an intermediate level. Also, the vast majority of people who do play steel do not play out professionally. They are home players for their own enjoyment. That is why there are relatively few pro steel players as opposed to guitarists and drummers. I wouldn't waste the time of day on someone who didn't practice and learn the previous week's lesson. A waste of time and money. I practice two hours a day six days a week and its still not enough for playing both C6th and E9th. I play five instruments on stage every week. The pedal steel is by far the most difficult. Most people will NEVER learn it.

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 4 Dec 2003 8:47 am

If you love it you can't put it down. When i first started in the mid 70's I took lessons from Chuck Gillette (great player). I couldn't get emough. I would practice for hours and hours. Time would pass so quickly it would be 3 am and i thought it was 10 pm.
25 years later and i love it even more.

Keith Murrow · Post by **Keith Murrow** » 4 Dec 2003 9:03 am

..[This message was edited by Keith Murrow on 26 October 2004 at 03:29 PM.]

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 4 Dec 2003 10:20 am

It would be interesting to know how many PSG pickers, including the BIGGIES, took lessons, and if so for how long. I took three weeks worth of group lessons at Halifax Hawiian Studios in the 1940s, ..number/tab system, ..Stella guitar.

If one is not "in the environment" they will not normally manifest an interest, The local high school band/orchestra usually does not have a steel in it. Most of the "music du jour" does not have a steel in it, ..indeed, even most of the so called country music of the day does not have steel in it, ..so why should a youngster consider the steel?

Until the PSG is taught via "reading of music" methods it will remain in a peripheral status and be ignored as a school taught instrument. How many steel players do you know that you can have a discussion with using music theory terminology? Ask the BIGGIES where they place music theory and see what you get for an answer.

At a table in the bar at the International in St Louis, I asked Jerry Byrd what he would do differently if he had it to do over again, ..the answer was "I would pay more attention to theory"!!!

Walter Stettner · Post by **Walter Stettner** » 4 Dec 2003 10:44 am

No success without trying hard!

For the Steel Guitar: No success with trying harder!

Walter

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David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 4 Dec 2003 11:31 am

It's two things. Lack of role models in pop music (even pop country), and loss of the work ethic in young people. This latter affects all kinds of music except for rock and rap, for which virtuosity is less important than hooks, lyrics and showmanship. Even in classical music the young geniuses tend to be Asians, who still have a very strong work ethic among the young. The Van Cliburns aren't happening as much.

And the cost and availability does matter. Very, very few music stores stock steel guitar, and even the student models cost 5 or 10 times more than an entry level acoustic or electric guitar. And the cheap amps don't work for steel.

Hands on instruction may be hard to find in some areas, but I am overwhelmed by the amount of good instructional books, CDs, and videos.

I don't buy the lack of theory idea. Every steeler I ever met knew tons more theory than any guitar player I ever met (other than acacemically trained jazz players). How much theory do all those guitarists, bassists and drummers, and even keyboardists, know who are out there playing plenty of gigs and cutting CDs and videos and inspiring lots of young wannabes?

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 4 Dec 2003 2:09 pm

Guilty as charged.

Okay, now that that part's out of the way, I have to say that I find the video instruction excellent up to a point. I don't think tracks and videos are ever going to make me a bandstand killer, but that's not my goal. I have limited time to practice and if I ever had to coordinate calendars with and instructor it wouldn't get done.

I agree that serious players--those with passion for steel-- will find the time.

Bob's original post didn't say there are not good teachers and good materials out there. He merely stated that access to good teachers was a limiting factor, and he was encouraging capable players to make themselves availaible to younger students.

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HagFan

[This message was edited by Ron Page on 04 December 2003 at 02:11 PM.]

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 4 Dec 2003 2:15 pm

I have met a lot of young people with much more natural ability than I have who wished they could play the steel. Some were great guitar players. I would tell them that they should learn because 6 string players are a "dime a dozen". I've offered to help them get started for free. But I've found that the biggest problem they have is that when they look at all the strings,pedals, and levers, it scares them to death. I know they have what it takes but they are afraid to try.-----------Eddie

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 4 Dec 2003 3:46 pm

Carl D hit the nail on the head. I used to give standard guitar lessons. I charged for five lessons in advance so if they didn't make it to a lesson it was their tough luck. If they did show up i'd ask if they had been practicing and they would always say they had. On a standard guitar you could look at their fingers and tell real easy...and for the most part they had not.

But when you did run across one who really wanted to learn it sure was fun. They were far and few between though and I gave it up.

Bob

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 4 Dec 2003 4:21 pm

I don't think it's a lack of good teachers. It might well be a lack of people that are willing to do the things that too many people wanting lessons expect.

I promised myself watching Bud Charleton show me what it took to be a good teacher, that I'd never do it.

I don't have the "stuff". He seemed to know which ones to "turn the switch on" for and which would break his heart if he did. Maybe he really didn't care. I dunno. I think he did.

I've spent most of my life trying to prove to myself that his effort wasn't wasted. I will try again tonite. Like many others.

24 years and a couple thousand gigs later that promise is as bright and shiney new as the day in 77 when I made it. Even when facing poverty.

Those that do I bless and admire.

I'll show anybody anything I know on break on a bandstand.

Hopefully like others I can post stuff with a little less moral crisis.

That's all the responsibility I want.

Others results, as always....

EJL

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 6 Dec 2003 10:07 pm

well here is my .02 cents worth ...its 11:00 p.m. my wife is in bed asleep and the only reason that i stopped to read the forum is that my bar hand was cramping from 2 hours of praticing , there are still a few of us ranks beginers that truly love the steel and are more that willing to find time to pratice , pratice and then pratice some more . those of us that are putting in the time and work to learn from you ..our teachers. we can't thank you folks enough for your time and most of all your paitance (can't spell) please don't give up on us

thanks
calvin

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 7 Dec 2003 3:13 am

Having ANY student can be frustrating for the teacher at times, but it's the nature of the beast.
Some people will have the desire, but never have the aptitude, much as on the violin.
Some got the ears to get it, others never will. Never, never, never.

But if you show them how to do it correctly, for their dime, they have at least a chance at moving forwards eventually.

And every once in awhile a prodigy will cross your path and really take to it and become a hot player.

Those are the moments a teacher can hope for.

Amongst all the others you have helped, and maybe planted the seeds that might not take root for 20 years, but may eventually sprout... or not.

Robert Jones · Post by **Robert Jones** » 7 Dec 2003 7:32 am

I have a for what it's worth for ya. I started playing steel back in the late 80's because the band that I was playing in didn't have one. I was on lead guitar at the time. I finally just broke down and went to the music store and bought one. The store had an old Weaver single neck steel. 3 floor pedals nothing more. When I bought this steel, I didn't even know how one was tuned. I had been around one since the mid 70's but was on bass then. So I knew some of the things that could be done with steel guitar. I bought this Weaver for $100.00 picked up a book that showed me how to tune it as well as some picks and bar etc....took it home.... about drove my wife up a wall for a week trying to figure out what to do with it.... and took it out on my gigs and started playing it. Needless to say I figured out what to do with it. I have been at it since. I had the desire to learn how to play no matter what. Granted not everyone is going to have the determination that I did and I'm certainly not trying to put anyone down for that. I can say that since I have bought my first steel that I've gone from a $100.00 steel to one that's just over $6000.00 My only regret is that I wish I had started trying to learn a long time before I did. I have been places I may never ever get to go back to, but I can say that my steel has taken me there once. I love the instrument and know that there are some very wonderful people out there that sit behind one as well. I think Cliff is right. If you want to learn how to play a steel bad enough you'll buy one. there are some really great instructional videos and such out on the market today as to what was available when I was trying to learn. I tip my hat to anyone that puts out something for us to learn by. Taking time to learn how to play the steel is something that each individual is going to have to come to terms with. Far be it for me to give anyone the idea that I know everything. Not the case. This is just my "For what it's worth." I hope that some day that I can be an influence to someone like so many have been to me.

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Mullen Royal Percision D-10 Red Laquar Pearl inlay 8&8
www.dbcooperonline.com

Lawrence Sullivan · Post by **Lawrence Sullivan** » 7 Dec 2003 7:50 am

This is a very interesting subject, and is somewhat complex, there are many factors that govern any interest in life, not only playing music or a particular instrument

Some of the factors are exposure to music and the particular instrument, there has to become a desire to be part of playing and encouragement to do so,some degree of natural musical ability, opportunity to use an instrument and proper instruction on it, time to devote to learning, and financial ability to eventualy purchase an instrument of choice

Our schools provide reasonably competent instruction on band instruments and time set aside in school for it, rental programs of instruments and transportation for the students, parents and family are encouraged to come to recitals and concerts at all levels of achievement of the music students.

Lots of music stores have pianos, organs,guitar, and instructors available for lessons and many of the students don't have these instruments at home but have to depend on opportunities at church or family friends to use their instruments. All these things open the door to playing and it's enjoyment to many people.

Someone is the best steel guitar player in the world, someone is the worst,the rest fall between, but even the lesser accomplished of us, for whatever reason we are, enjoy the instrument.

Many thanks to all who play, and to all who do give instruction and encouragement to the rest of us, I hope you don't become too discouraged and frustrated because of our inabilities, and close the door of learning.

Respectfully
Larry