DRUNKEN MUSICIANS in the public eye

Leroy Riggs · Post by **Leroy Riggs** » 23 Nov 2003 1:23 pm

It is very common for me to have a couple of beers before the gig starts--beer relaxes me considerable. I also have at least one more thru the night but I never get drunk. A little beer can work for you.

Each to their own, I guess.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 23 Nov 2003 3:00 pm

I'd like to suggest that it's not the alcohol (or lack thereof), but rather the temperament and body chemistry of the people involved. Many folks are capable of drinking quite heavily and still maintaining both creativity and civility. Others are combative and self destructive, drunk or sober. It seems to me that someone who has learned that drinking makes them mean and ineffective, and yet still continues to do so in social or gigging situations, has a negativity and self-destructiveness that goes far beyond "drinking". There's definitely something deeper at work there. Musical and artistic endeavors, especially in the public eye, seem to stimulate/attract those conflicted components of personality like ego, self-loathing, greed, and negativity along with the higher levels of creativity and self-expression. Over the years I've watched many of my high-profile musical aquaintances destroy friends, family, and future in the search for power and profit, and it usually had nothing to do with alcohol! When I was running a recording studio full-time, I saw my share of alcohol/drug induced arguments and trainwrecks, but it always fascinated me that the bands with the most obvious internal dissention and stress were most often the sober Gospel groups. Although it's well known that alcohol and other drugs negatively affect reaction times and judgement, it's also obvious that many folks are using the decreased inhibitions and relaxing effects to access a level of creativity, communication and "fun" that are otherwise difficult for them, and which our culture accepts and actively promotes. Another factor is "state dependant learning"- (for example a person who studies for a test while drinking coffee and staying up all night, does best on the test in a similar state of tiredness and caffeine overload). It follows that folks who spent their formative musical years in a drinking environment are more comfortable, and, yes, possibly more musically productive, when in the same state. Of course, the stories are legion about the drinking and drugging that many of our most revered musical heroes have embraced, and it certainly doesn't diminish the quality of their musical output- (although we can wonder what they would have produced had they all stayed sober). In short, it seems "the mellow stay mellow", and pouring alcohol or other drugs onto a volatile personality is just "gasoline on the fire".

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Nathan Delacretaz · Post by **Nathan Delacretaz** » 23 Nov 2003 3:54 pm

Huge issue, and lots of good angles on it here. As someone who has treaded water at the semi-pro level for a modest 10 years, I would interject:

1. Ditto to the "bar environment" point.
2. Your 2 basic musician personalities [a)look-at-me entertainers and b)introverted technician types] both tend to seek external remedies for their respective ego a) surplus or b) deficiency.
3. Everyone eventually comes to a crossroads where they choose "the lifestyle" or "the craft".
4. One hopes the longer ones stays in the game, the less post-adoloescent self-destructive behavior one will have to deal with, but judging from this thread, this may not be the case..?
5. A buddy actually told me once - and another post referred to this frustration - that drinking is a way to take the edge off the nagging feeling that music may never "pay off".

FWIW....

Good thread.

Joe Drivdahl · Post by **Joe Drivdahl** » 23 Nov 2003 7:20 pm

In the old days, the frontman was supposed to be seen drinking; it was part of his image He was going through something he was trying to forget. So Merle, George, Hank, Willie, Waylon, et al., were learning to put feeling into their singing by applying booze. Too there was a belief that whiskey applied nightly, over time, will season a voice. It must've worked, because you don't hear many who can sing like that anymore.

The backup band was supposed to remain clean and sober, but they didn't. They followed the lead their boss was modeling, and look what happened.

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 24 Nov 2003 7:41 am

So much depends on your body/brain chemistry- some people can have a drink or two and be fine, some can't even have a single drink without bad effects. Some people can process and enjoy a smoke, some become too paranoid... It has nothing to do with morality, there are genetics involved with alcoholism.

Common sense: Drinking yourself numb will slow down your reflexes and probably not help your playing, but you may think you are burnin' nonetheless. If everyone around you is in the same state maybe they'll think you are burnin' too! [This message was edited by John McGann on 24 November 2003 at 07:42 AM.]

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 24 Nov 2003 9:34 am

it's all about moderation
(we even got moderators here on the Fo'too)
i happen to drink .............within reason
i never liked bein' drunk and i have always had an aversion to drunks anyway
Wine w: a meal is Xcellent and good for dilutin' all the xcess grease
a little schnapps to warm up the vocal chords does'nt hurt
i recently did a gig w: an ex alcoholic who turned into a fundamentalist preacher
well this guy was so uptight, that i prefered just bein'quiet. No laughs !
thank goodness his wife was around to keep him for goin' back......to the bar
and he we are playin' to a bunch of drunks that holler like crazy after each tune.
i'm still tryin'to figure out the meaning in all of this...

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Steel what?

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 24 Nov 2003 10:22 am

In reference to drinking, My old friend Gene Sullivan (When My Blue Moon Turns To Gold Again)always used to say: "I said "no" one time...and that was when someone asked me if I didn't think I'd had about enough?

www.genejones.com

Manny Shuffles · Post by **Manny Shuffles** » 24 Nov 2003 12:02 pm

It IS sort of funny how country music has gone into the crapper ever since everyone stopped drinking.

Manny Shuffles · Post by **Manny Shuffles** » 24 Nov 2003 12:06 pm

has country music gone downhill since everybody has seen the light? I have to drink just to listen to your new poultry (pop-country).

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Three Chords, a Shuffle and a Cloud of Dust!

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 24 Nov 2003 4:03 pm

Walter just for the record, I left my last band in large part because I wasn't much of a drinker.
I was staying sober and driving home and getting flack from the back seats and being critisised for simple, clear, rational statements that before the gig would have not been misconstrued. Or just not being fun enough at the end of the night.

So my one or two beers on a given night were not affecting my profesionalism, nor my abilities to function legaly and well, they were extremely light in comparison. I was the voice of reason, and often resented for it.

I couldn't stand the othersides late night act after a certain point.

As far as actors on stage... the ones drunk on stage are legion. Many great names of theater and film were real alcholics, who could still do great acting.
If they had been sober they undoubtedly would have been better. But sometimes that edge of original creativity is coupled with living close to the edge too.

More than a few classical players are drunk to some extent. I have been in a couple of symphonies, and they have their share of old soaks. I never had a drop on a classical gig, ever.

I have seen dance gigs with people drinking right off stage. Usually not a lot.
It of course is frowned on, more or less depending on the venue. Dancing on stage with a drink in your hand is a bit problematic anyway.

I am not advocating drinking on stage...
I am saying depending on the venue, it can be
not unreasonable to have something low powered to drink. In other places it isn't.

But if it shows or is a clear detriment to your playing, then it is not reasonable any place.

To much is ALWAYS unreasonable, and is totally dependant on personal metabolism.

I often record gigs, so I think I can judge how I was after the fact pretty well too.

If you never ever drink, more power too you, If you drink occasionally in moderation and are in control and creative, I don't see the rub.
But if your a mean drunk, know it, and still drink, then there is a serious problem.

For me a professional, goes in, does the job right as expected or better, doesn't hassle people, stops hassles from others early on, is on time, and leaves with people glad they have been there doing their job, and arrives home safe and sound at whatever hour they must.

I'll take a player who plays with a fire in the belly with two beers a night in it also, over a totally dry and sober player, who also plays dry, consistant and correct, but with little raw energy and spontanaity.
I have played with both sorts.
If you are totally teatotal, yet have the fire, then no problem, again more power to you.

And I hate to play with brilliant players who are mister mumbles by half time.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 24 Nov 2003 5:14 pm

We were without a bus driver for awhile and the band members were assigned to drive the bus on a rotating basis. We always traveled from one engagement to the town or state where the next job was before we finally stopped and got rooms.

I soon noticed that some of them always seemed to have had too much to drink to take their turn driving.....and because I was sober I often ended up driving when it wasn't my turn.

One night when we had a long haul coming up out of El Paso and no one wanted to drive that long haul across the desert, everyone intentionally had too many drinks so they wouldn't have to drive......good ole Gene would take care of the driving.

Surprise, surprise.....after the gig when they finally finished with the drinks and the girls and were ready to hit the road, they found me laying on the bus floor with an empty whisky bottle clutched to my chest and they couldn't wake me up!

The boss had to drive the bus that night, and new rules were posted the next day....whoever was scheduled to drive would not drink that day, if he did, he would be fired.

It worked out good for me because after that episode, I only had to drive when I was scheduled.....and I hadn't had even one drink that night they found me laying on the bus floor too drunk to drive.

www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 25 November 2003 at 04:32 PM.]

Chuck Fisher · Post by **Chuck Fisher** » 25 Nov 2003 9:12 am

heres a goodie..........
http://www.msnbc.com/news/997816.asp?0cv=CB20

glen canpbell

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 25 Nov 2003 2:15 pm

Gene, great story, I am still laughing!

William Steward · Post by **William Steward** » 26 Nov 2003 10:38 am

Ray I have read with interest most of this thread and there have been some lucid angles on your original point. Let's face it, most most players drink on the bandstand to relax in order to play better and be more creative. That does work for some people but I have found for myself there are more effective ways to relax before a gig without anesthesia. Notably avoiding caffeine, deep breathing and stretching go a long way to allow me to concentrate. I liked Tom S. anecdote about the piano player asking him if he had been practising after he quit drinking. I have just finished a few years with a sax player who would usually be legless by the third set. The worst symptoms were irratibility, and blowing so far outside the changes that it couldn't really be interpreted as intentional.....I think in his drunken state he thought he sounded like Coltrane but in reality more like a cat dying by strangulation. There are very few players that play better drunk.....a few drinks maybe.