Proper Tempo For O.B.S.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 16 Nov 2003 6:37 am

I think Paul has the right idea.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 16 Nov 2003 8:05 am

RON P.,

I've been trying to weigh out the true meaning of what P.F. replied a day or so ago. I keep thinking, he has to be joshing some of the stiff fingered hopefuls, who would dare to think, that maybe someday, they could creep up to his interpretation of what is fast. Someone was kidding around earlier on, about incredible beats. It would be very interesting to learn the speed of T.C.'s St. Louis performance, or that of T.W., by actual beats. Would it be safe to say, that neither performance exceeded 150 beats? If you have copies, perhaps a drum machine would reveal the answers.

Bill H.

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 16 Nov 2003 8:41 am

If there ever was an issue of having to choose between OBS and Jimmy Day's memorable solo to Farewell Party, I'd know what I would choose. How about ya'll? Is speed playing coming from physical dexterity and emotion, out of habit maybe? No emotion? Do tunes, slower than OBS really require more thought? Years ago I've won banjo contests, but not from playing super fast even though I could. I feel proper tempo should only be associated to what can entertain an audience and consideration to some guys/gals in the band that can't follow pace. I recall many years ago, Jimmy Unger Sr would always qualify for the finals at one of the local fiddle contests by playing a ballad. He never participated in the final round, I think he was just trying to make a statement that playing fast was just one aspect.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 16 Nov 2003 9:51 am

Gary Lee G.,

Interesting... but what happens next, if you're having a good night in a strange surrounding, playing steel guitar, and the audience commences to hoot and chant for their favorite fiddler. You look up to see his fiddle becoming airborne, as he races for the stage. With his bow tucked neatly between his thumb and index finger, he leaps on the stage with gusto. You start to sag as you hear his fans croaking "Orange Blossom Special". Some of the requests are audible, and heard with distinct clarity. Others are muffled, as they shift their gaze to the steel guitarist, as if to say, wake up Mr. Steelman, this is your chance to shine. After the formalities of clearing the uptempo instrumental with the bandleader, the fiddler may just nod to you, or warn you in so many words, that the steel should be bolted down. Preparedness is the solution, in a situation when a run away fiddle version of O.B.S. all but blows the band into the corners of the stage.
What would you do as a steel guitarist, talk the fiddler into doing a slow ballad? That will not suffice as a solution. He may study you with narrowed eyes, as he rubs his bow with rosin, and protest that the show must go on.

Bill H.

Jeff Evans · Post by **Jeff Evans** » 16 Nov 2003 10:57 am

What would you do as a steel guitarist, talk the fiddler into doing a slow ballad?

You'd have about as much luck as talking him into playing in pitch and meter.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 16 Nov 2003 11:04 am

The Special is (was) a train. As the train accelerates, so does the tempo.
However, trains do slow down. In fact the Second Law of Thermodynamics predicts the heat death of the entire universe, perhaps in the next 10^80 years. At that time, all motion besides small quantum fluctuations will cease. Even the O.B.S will slow down, and if we are lucky it will stop.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 16 Nov 2003 11:11 am

...the likelihood of hearing a fast version on "straight" steel is virtually nonexistent.

I don't know about that. The trademark lick is often played from a fixed tuning position (A+F on the top 5 strings), leading me to believe that it is easily possible on straight steel.

Yesterday I was fooling around with the same lick, no pedals, starting on the 9th string of the E9th. The wholetone scale tuning of strings 9 through 6 makes it easy to play the lick with a 1 fret bar movement in the middle - faster than hitting a knee lever, in my opinion. <pre> ...
6 G# __________8_______________8________
7 F# ______7-8___8-7_______7-8___8-7____
8 E ____7___________7___7___________7__
9 D __7_______________7________________
10 B ___________________________________ </pre>It seems to me that the crux of the matter is whether you know enough fast bluegrass "licks" to fill the allotted measures, whatever instrument you're playing. It's hard to make the case that pedals are a prerequisite for the "faster" bluegrass tunes, when bluegrass bands often have a dobro player instead of pedal steel.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 16 November 2003 at 11:19 AM.]

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 16 Nov 2003 12:35 pm

Bill H, sounds like you are suggesting that you can't play that fast? When you say the band was blown in the corner, does that mean they dropped a beat or two? OBS is the kind of tune that can be performed at any speed by incorporating simplicity with the possible exception of the trade mark lick. With all the attention you are giving to this thread, you should instead sit down at your steel and come up with something that you feel comfortable on playing at any speed. As hoaky as your pending solo may sound to you, no one in the audience is gonna take notice excluding another steel player. I don't think anyone here is booking a Greyhound to Pittsfield anytime to soon.

Chuck McGill · Post by **Chuck McGill** » 16 Nov 2003 12:45 pm

"Run away"

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 16 Nov 2003 1:02 pm

Gary Lee G.,

It didn't stop BUZZ EVANS or BOBBE SEYMOUR and a few other super pickers from stopping by. I'm happy to call them friends. If you want a new experience, try jamming with Buzz, up close and personal.

Bill H.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 17 Nov 2003 5:12 am

Bobbe Lee,

Thanks for giving some thought to this thread, and generously offering your version of a possible inroad to the uptempo characteristic of O.B.S.
One must consider that the true test ensues when a given pattern of tones are subjected to acceleration. It's the forward and reverse patterns of scales that necessitates supreme efforts on the part of the steel guitarists, to try to edge up to the rhythmic sawing of the bows of talented fiddlers. I cannot overstress, or become excessively emphatic in stating that your career can be severely challenged, by small adversities, or stumbling blocks, that appear at first sight as mere trivia. To progress successfully as an instrumentalist, requires a constant effort on the part of the musician, to return to the "bully" tune, (O.B.S.) time after time, finding advantageous routes to match the rake of the bow. It has been noted that confidence will at times become misleading, by producing a lack of faith in ones own abilities.
Determination has a way of bringing the aspirent much closer to selected goals.

Bill H.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 17 Nov 2003 9:09 am

Myron L.,

I am learning to exercise caution while responding to proffered replies on this forum, which have a tendency to "derail" my train of thoughts. Having said this, I mean to say that there is a world of differences between O.B.S., and the "William Tell Overture". I had mentioned earlier that self-confidence can be misleading. Our true capabilities are measured by a determination that will not reconcile with defeat. The prowess of the greats of steel guitar, has been known for some time from prerecorded sessions. Still, they too, are limited in other feats or endeavors. B.E. has declared that he is a few feet short of overtaking the fleet-footed buck. It boils down to the fact that we all have weak points, as well as strong points. An African cheetah can turn on energies, that produce a speed in excess of 75 M.P.H. across open plains. Hawks have been known to exceed 200 M.P.H. in a power dive.
Still, they are limited in other aspects of survival. It's just incredible how truly fast, humans can be with their hands. The hand is much quicker than the eye, which leads me to believe, that a large percentage of the flare, and ensuing charisma, that develops during performances, can be attributed to a variety of conditions.

Bill H. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 17 November 2003 at 12:39 PM.][This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 18 November 2003 at 02:09 AM.]

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 17 Nov 2003 10:38 am

Niklas,

Fantastic pickin'!

Please tab this for us!

Terry

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 18 Nov 2003 12:38 am

Niklas , i enjoyed your Pickin'too

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 18 Nov 2003 2:34 am

I have the original 1939 recording of it by Ervin and Gordon Rouse and it ain't as fast as your trying to play it. I also have a version by Chubby Wise and his is even slower and swings a little more.
I'll try to dig out these two recordings and my metronome and let you know what the BPM are on them.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 18 Nov 2003 2:51 am

CrowBear S.,

I agree with both you, and Terry E., that there is something special about the way Niklas plays O.B.S. in his arrangement, here on the forum. He most certainly, has the ability to weave in those delicate patterns, that will turn heads, as we listen to try to envision which inversion he is playing out of. It's the smooth transitions of his grouping of difficult patterns, which are very convincing, that his bar mobility is exceptional; as he unites his picking skills, with those moves.

Bill H.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 18 Nov 2003 3:31 am

Alvin B.,

This gesture that you have made is further proof, that this forum has the potential to bring together good neighbor policies. Indeed, please provide the readers here on the forum, with the information that will ultimately show that this thread is not for nought. P.F. questioned somewhere near midpoint of this thread, by asking "whats the point"? This is a major breakthrough in obtaining scoops, or information, that pertain directly to a methodology of giving him an intelligent answer. Please follow through with your offer to show how it all began. I'm delighted to be reminded of the many readers, who are so inclined to be helpful.

Bill H.

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 18 Nov 2003 4:45 am

I have the original 1939 recording of it by Ervin and Gordon Rouse and it ain't as fast as your trying to play it.

You're Right

I've had the dubious honor of having my job taken right on the spot, by Ervin Rouse, Ralph Wimberly, and Pee Wee Davis in Key West Fla playing this song in the early 60's. They walked in a joint called The Golden Nugget playing this song on Fiddle, Dobro and a Doghouse Bass.
The Owner let us go and hired them on the spot. They didn't play it that fast either.

This discussion should have ended when Paul Franklin spoke.<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/37.gif' border=0></a>

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<img src='http://www.mymailsignature.com/fwpdata/ ... CFAsig.png' border=0></a>[This message was edited by John Floyd on 18 November 2003 at 04:46 AM.]

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 18 Nov 2003 5:51 am

Bill,

I wasn't looking for an answer. All Fiddle players can burn on that tune and yet most of them could not play through "All The Things You Are" at a moderate tempo. There is only so much time to devote to practice. Why not learn something you can benefit from musically?

Paul

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 18 Nov 2003 6:00 am

John F.,

I'm unable to interpret the winking eye, and its purpose. Long ago I learned to regard a wink of the eye, as something that casts many messages, depending entirely on the visual surroundings, which accompany the wink. In this particular instance, there is a message formulating, which is producing an erroneous image of this thread. May I remind you, that nothing in this thread can be found, showing that I am advocating a specific, or desired tempo, while playing "The O. B. Special". A few of the responses have shown otherwise.

John, would you allow that Paul F's message was of a brief nature, and little has been predetermined following his reply? I admire Paul as much as anyone on this forum. Anyone who has has a lick of sense, would never engage himself/herself, in a contentious discussion, of an argumentative nature, showing little regard for his expertise. Fear not, I know better.

Bill H. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 19 November 2003 at 01:01 AM.]
[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 19 November 2003 at 03:31 AM.]

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 18 Nov 2003 6:21 am

I totally agree with Paul That this song has Very little Musical Value. Why not apply yourself to something more challenging.

Bill
Someday you will succeed in re-inventing the wheel and we will all be riding around on a Hankey. I hope that its a softer ride, because my rear end is getting more and more tender with the passing years.

Everyone wants the Master players to get on the Forum to hear from them and Learn. But there are a few and I'm not implying that it is you, That badger and question what they do , how their amp is set, what gauge strings, etc. If I were a Master Steel guitar player, I would resent some rube from West Podunk, Anywhere questioning my ability, Style, Tone, knowledge or any thing else concerned with the instrument they play so well. I'm surprised that People like Paul, Buddy or any of the others would come on here and be subjected to such treatment. There are some that don't and I personally don't blame them.

Don't make too much of the Smiley Face. Its just that I thought Paul answered the question pretty well with "Why bother with this song"

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<img src='http://www.mymailsignature.com/fwpdata/ ... CFAsig.png' border=0></a>[This message was edited by John Floyd on 18 November 2003 at 06:46 AM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 18 Nov 2003 9:28 am

Paul F.,

Thanks for the great advice. I will certainly follow it to the letter.

Bill H.

Mark Zinns · Post by **Mark Zinns** » 18 Nov 2003 11:48 am

It seems to me that Jerry Douglas or Mike Aldridge have performed that tune on Dobro. Anyone heard one of them do it?

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 18 Nov 2003 11:53 am

Mike seems to net more notes per measure regardless of the tempo, and yes, I've heard him