Newbie at Large....HELP!!

Joy Wofford · Post by **Joy Wofford** » 22 Jun 2005 5:19 pm

WOOOOOOOOO, I got it, well actually my husband got it figured out for me. See what I mean about the problem? The inlay appears to be plain old stainless steel, but the fretboard around it is starting to flake off..it's getting these waxy looking spots all over it. They even go onto the inlay pieces in spots, almost looks like someone dripped wax on it, but I can feel no bumps. If I rub on it, it flakes the black paint off, but the stain still remains on the steel parts. Any guesses?

Terry Farmer · Post by **Terry Farmer** » 22 Jun 2005 7:27 pm

Hmmmm........I'm afraid I don't know a fix for this one. Anyone else? It probably wouldn't hurt to gently clean it the best you can and then put a coat of wax on it to preserve what you have. Sorry, not much help here.

Terry Farmer · Post by **Terry Farmer** » 22 Jun 2005 7:34 pm

Another thought. It looks like someone dripped some kind of solvent on it that lifted the black paint and stained the stainless. So clean the stainless by very mildly buffing it and carefully touch up the black paint with some thin black enamel. Let it dry real well, then put a coat of wax on it. Again.....Good luck!

Joy Wofford · Post by **Joy Wofford** » 22 Jun 2005 7:46 pm

Terry, it does kinda look like some kind of solvent dripped on it. I hadn't thought to wax over the top of it...good idea. I'm still not in the mind-set of realizing I'm not going to actually going to be putting my fingers on the fretboard. I'm used to worrying about what NOT to put on a fretboard so it will be sweet to fret on. Like the buffing idea for the stainless, too. Matter of fact, you've made me think, seems like I saw a liquid buffer for stainless in the kitchen section at the store...I could apply with a cue-tip...might work!
Ok, next question. The sides and back of this LS are painted in the original brown enamel paint Gibson used on it. Would it hurt the tone (or the value) of it, if I match-up the paint and re-do it? It's really looking pretty sorry....

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 22 Jun 2005 8:02 pm

Unless you really can't stand it, I wouldn't do anything to it. DON'T use Pledge or any other kind of furniture polish on any part of it. Most of these spray polishes contain silicates that dissolve a little bit of the finish off, and in the case of old stuff like this, it can take the finish right off, including the black paint on the fretboards. Safest thing is to clean it with a damp rag (damp with water, nothing else) the dry it well. You can wax it with any kind of wax that doesn't contain any silicates.

The thing is OLD, you got it for a great price (I haven't found one that cheap since 1972) and it's not likely to look brand new at this age. If you can see all the frets and markings on the fretboards, I wouldn't do anything except clean it with a damp rag. Clean it, play it... if you must refinish it, yes it usually lessens the value somewhat, unless maybe it's totally horrible before and refinished as-new. Considering what you paid for it, there's very little you could do to lose any of your investment...but you don't want to do anything that would lessen the actual value, what you could get out of it when/if you decide to sell it and move on another one.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 22 June 2005 at 09:11 PM.]

Joy Wofford · Post by **Joy Wofford** » 22 Jun 2005 8:11 pm

Ah, I can stand it. Thanks for letting me know about what kind of wax to NOT use. Paint isn't terrible, I just wondered. Yep, it's old, and been very well used and loved before I got it. And no, I'm not looking to fix it up for resale. I waited too long to get my hands on one of these!
Ok, last question for a while, (I think)...have seen some debate on here about what kind of slide to use..but not really what might be the best for a beginner to try? I was thinking bullethead, but would like to see some opinions from you guys on it? Also, what length? Thanks once more, Joy

Terry Farmer · Post by **Terry Farmer** » 22 Jun 2005 8:14 pm

This is a hot potato question. There are some that say ok to refinishing and some vehemently against it. To me it doesn't matter. I've gone both ways. I would say don't worry about it for right now. Focus on learning to play it and leave the finish as is. The original beatup finish is part of it's charm. There's a story with each scratch and dent. Maybe the guitar will tell you those stories. Play and listen. If you refininsh now, you will probably wish later you would have left it alone. The main thing now is to play it and have fun. Get to ticklin'them bones!

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 22 Jun 2005 8:16 pm

When I was first starting to play, I preferred shiny new instruments, until I got hold of some old beatup ones, then I learned that despite the dents and scratches and rust, they had soul and something special that the new ones don't have, you can look at them and imagine all the places they've been, the songs they've played, their history. Look at the dents and dings as badges of honor, a time capule of where that instruments been and what it's been through.

About a bar, hmmm... you're going to get lots of different advice there.... on lapsteel I use a tapered bulletnosed bar, but I can't say that's best for everyone. My big 15/16" diameter pedal steel bar sounds better but it's hard to throw around as quickly as the little tapered bar.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 22 June 2005 at 09:28 PM.]

Paul Arntson · Post by **Paul Arntson** » 22 Jun 2005 8:24 pm

Greetings and welcome, Joy.
I use a 3/4" diameter Brozman bar (this month - I'm a perpetual learner here - probably another bar next month...) and I find that the smaller size doesn't go flying out of my hand so often and I can see where I'm supposed to hold it better than with the 1" thick bars.
I agree with those that say don't fix the finish. Every time I have ever done that I have regretted it.
-Paul

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 22 Jun 2005 8:35 pm

By the way Joy, I just started playing 6-string lapsteel again myself, after about a 35 year hiatus from it when I changed to pedal steel.

I recorded a version of Panhandle Rag a few months ago on my Oahu Diana, same steel (and well beat-up) that was my first instrument when I was about 11 years old. The steel hasn't even had the original pickup or bridge in at least 35 years, since before I ever saw it, but I think it sounds darn good... my uncle handwound the pickup. I posted the clip here when I recorded it so you guys who've already heard it nevermind this, but Joy if you'd like to hear it, it's here: http://jimphelps.com/clips.html

I recorded it on this same computer. You can do the same (maybe better!) after some practice, with your own steel and computer. [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 22 June 2005 at 09:45 PM.]

Joy Wofford · Post by **Joy Wofford** » 22 Jun 2005 9:18 pm

Jim , THANK YOU for sharing that with me! I didn't mean to not reply sooner, but I was busy listening to everything on your site. Your Orange Blossum Special is great, I could see the rosin smokin' in the air. Brought back fond memories of a fairground music festival I went to, many moons ago. There was an older gent there, sitting on a little camp stool, trying to open up a can of pop. He couldnt' get the ring on it pulled because his hands were so shakey. As I walked by, I stopped and just said let me open that darn thing up for you...and after I did that, he smiled and said thankee, and would I care to have a cold one with him, and he'd play me a little somethin' on his fiddle while I sat down for a spell. Course I said I'd like that...and then he played.
I stayed for hours. His playing captivated me...he could make that thing moan and cry so beautifully.
It was the ugliest fiddle I have ever seen...but the sweetest voice on it I've ever heard. I've never heard another like it. So, everytime I hear a good fiddler playing that tune (OBS), I see Mr. Frances sawing away and making that glorious song!
Thanks for helping me see him one more time.........Joy

Joy Wofford · Post by **Joy Wofford** » 22 Jun 2005 9:23 pm

Paul, thanks for the idea of using a narrower bar. That makes sense to me, being able to easier see where to place it. I hadn't thought about that before.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 22 Jun 2005 9:42 pm

On the contrary, thank YOU Joy for that wonderful story. I'm so glad that you're here on the forum with us.

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 23 Jun 2005 9:42 am

AMEN to what Jim said..Your parents sure named you right,Joy..Be as "corny" as you like,I'll read and enJoy every thing you have to say..You are a very talented writer and I'm sure that your adventures into the steel guitar world will display that talent most admirably..Welcome here Joy.
Roses on your pillow.
I'm back to Peepin n Watchin
P.J.

Joy Wofford · Post by **Joy Wofford** » 23 Jun 2005 1:21 pm

You like the way I write? What a dear thing to say, thank you. But you know Papa, this is getting a bit eerie...I used to always say "Roses in your pillow" to my sons when I tucked them in at night. Somebody on here the other day posted a picture of little ones in a pool, and another member reminenced about how it seemed like just the other day.......and that's a good tune to learn, ya know.."Turn Around". Maybe someone's telling me what song I should try first on this LS...things that make ya go hmmmmmmm
Joy to you

Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 23 Jun 2005 1:46 pm

welcome to the best talk around Joy.
I started lap steel a few years ago and have learnd so much from this great place.

be careful tho, you will begin to acqiure more instruments.

last year I got a 74 sho-bud pedal steel after reading the other side of this forum.

and I am not frowning.

welcome.

Joy Wofford · Post by **Joy Wofford** » 23 Jun 2005 2:59 pm

Darn it Randy, don't jinx me like that!! I've been reading the "other side" all afternoon....(moan). I've already got tooooo many instruments around here, and not enuff time to give the deserved attention to them. PLUS, they take up a lot of room to store...which I hate to do with them. If I don't have one sitting right out so that I can just pick it up, I tend to ignore it...plain lazy I guess.
Thanks for the nice welcome
Joy

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 23 Jun 2005 3:26 pm

"Too many instruments".....you mean that's possible?

What other instruments do you play, Joy?

I always leave a guitar out laying around, that always makes it easier to grab, like you said. Even when I was gigging 6 nights a week, every night as soon as I got home the guitar would come out of the case and put in the corner or somewhere. I don't play 6 nights a week anymore... and seems like neither does anyone else these days unless they're on the road.... but at least one guitar is in a stand where I can grab it, and my lap steel is leaning against the wall in my music room, the pedal steel is setup behind me...

Joy Wofford · Post by **Joy Wofford** » 23 Jun 2005 4:04 pm

Hi Jim...lets see, probably most of you people here won't think it's a real instrument (most pros don't), but I play, and used to teach for many years, Appalachian Mountain dulcimer. I've been told that I pick a fair Autoharp. Maybelle Carter's style hooked me a long time ago, and if you can pick a harp, rather then just strum it,it's pretty versatile and a better back-up than most folks realize....and there are only 36 strings to memorize, lol.
Last thing that I would say I can actually play is a Psaltry. I have one that has rolled strings at the pins, and so it's bowed like a fiddle, rather then the kind that you have to "lift" the bow each time you want to move to a new note.
Well, now you know all the dirt on me...I hope nobody is laughing toooo awful loud out there...(it's ok, I've heard EVERY joke possible about them), but ya know what?
This old lap steel I've got already has a lot of music echoing inside of it, left there by the previous owner. I'm going to talk real nice to it and see if I can coax it to sing to me. If I ever get it to do that, I'll not forget all of you kind folks here that helped me find its' voice again.
What goes around, comes around, and so everyone here should receive all the kindness the world has to offer.
I've rambled again...(gotta stop that!)
Joy

Danny James · Post by **Danny James** » 25 Jun 2005 7:27 am

Hi Joy,
Welcome to the Forum. A sign in Joes Pizza ( pickin ) Parlor in North Vernon Indiana says---" Music is much too important to leave entirely in the hands of professionals."
Tom Pickett, a good friend here in Columbus Ind. owns and operates a music store. He is gifted on several different instruments including a Multi-Kord Hawaiian guitar, rythem guitar, ukelele,and vocal, etc. I once heard him play a kazoo and when used appropriately it sounded good.

Music should always make us happy and be fun. I know I will never get too old to enjoy it.
Have fun,
Danny

Scott Alexander · Post by **Scott Alexander** » 3 Jul 2005 5:23 am

I hope you are picking that lap steel. I am a tele player who got turned on to a gibson Console Grande. I thrn started playing a Zum U12. However, a friend gave me a Br6 Gibson, and I am learning some new things. I live in Richland, right next door to you down M-69. I have another friend who is just learning lap too. Maybe we can all get together to help each other out.

Tune your guitar to a c6 tuning. If you need some string gauges, just amail me.

Steelin' Scott
www.johnnyapollo.org

ShoBud U12
Mullen U12
Tele
Uke
Gibson BR6

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 3 Jul 2005 6:13 am

Your instruments are hardly anything to laugh about. Autoharp is great, an authentic old sound. The the mountain dulcimer--it was a large version of that that spawned the piano.
Who knows what you can get out of the lap steel with your psaltery bow? You might start a whole new thing. Play!

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 4 Jul 2005 1:57 am

Hello and a belated Welcome, Joy.

I would have jumped in sooner with a welcome, ...but a fellow Forumite is spending some time here at the house / shop renewing my motivation with needed / appreciated new perspectives and allot of help, ...and has kept me quite busy and tuckered this last week; And I had noticed that you were already getting a grand SGF welcome!

The old bod's strength is finally returning so I find myself back in the saddle and still concious at midnight ...to catch up on some SGF "Nightriders' Lament"!

I join the many who would reply that dulcimer and harp are not "sub-standard" instruments by any means! As a matter of fact, if you have been playing mode-fretted dulcimers ... and/or picking a chord-button autoharp, ...then you have some insights into modes that will make the picture of a 6th tuned Steel fretboard much easier than for some folks that aren't used to modal instruments and/or "math". ~~~~~~~ And I'll bet that in a rather short-while, ...you'll be experimenting with a Steel tone-bar on your dulcimers and harps!

If you could expound a bit more on the types of dulcimers you have been playing (hammer, picked, mode-fretted, half-step fretted, finger fretted, stick fretted or stick "slide", etc etc), it might help folks here steer you into directions oriented to your dulcimer experiences. After all, a lap-played dulcimer has a number of things in common with the Steel Guitar!

Best of Wishes,

Aloha,
Denny T~
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 04 July 2005 at 03:06 AM.]

Joy Wofford · Post by **Joy Wofford** » 4 Jul 2005 8:54 am

Still getting replies to this post, Thank you everyone.
Scott, I'm just getting started on this steel. Have only had it about 3 weeks, and still trying to find my way around on it. I didn't play guitar before picking this up, but I think you other guys are right, my dulcimer picking is helping me a lot on the steel. It feels natural to have an instrument on my lap...heck, it's even about the same size and shape. I had an old Stevens bar in the house from a while back when I converted an old guitar I picked up into a slider....but it wasn't comfortable, kept "tipping" on me...so I gave up quickly. Besides, it wasn't the sound I was looking for. I've known for years that I wanted a real LS, and I guess nothing else was going to fill that void for that certain sound in my head that I wanted to hear.
Finally I have it. I can already tell that this old steel I have sounds great. It wants to please me. That probably sounded like an odd thing to say, but that's how it seems. Like it wants to sound good for me. I have to learn to get these old fingers to tease out the right stuff, that's all. Did I say "that's all"? Ya, right. But I'm working on it.
The dulcimer I play most of the time is one that most would consider a bass dulcimer...or at least a low tenor dulcimer. It's much deeper bodied than most dulcimers, and about 8" longer...but the fret board is standard. It's been a while since I played "out" with it because I've been having some hand difficulties, and my fingers don't want to fret like they should. Another good reason to start the steel now. It's a luxury to use a bar to fret with, rather than my fingers. And I'm used to picking with my other hand "down", so it's starting to come together. Feels natural to me. A LONG way to go before the cat next door stops thinking I'm talking to her from over here every time I practice.
Just so you know, I didn't mean it to sound like I was putting my instruments down earlier. Au contrare....wouldn't happen, I was just having a bit of fun. My instruments are extensions of what I am, and I'm proud that thru teaching these old traditional instruments, they will be carried on by another generation.
All of you have been great to this new gal, and it's appreciated more than you know.
Have a great 4th, and keep that yellow ribbon out for our guys and girls here and overseas. Bring them homes soon...safe. I thank them for what they do.
Roses in their pillows.......
Joy