Desire And Ability

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Aug 2003 4:33 pm

There seems to be no shortages of the desires, to become accomplished steel guitarists, but what of the players' abilities, to reach such lofty goals? Is there some point of compromise, whereby the players settle into a routine of playing at a level far below that, of which he/she had hoped to attain?

Bill H. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 20 August 2003 at 12:10 AM.]

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 19 Aug 2003 4:45 pm

Yes, I think about 98% of us have attained that lofty goal!

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 19 Aug 2003 4:48 pm

One need accept a lower level of accomplishment only, if they're satisfied with that level. The steel guitar is a very complicated instrument. Constant study and learning is required in order to achieve a high level of success. After sixty years of doing so, there is seldom a day goes by that I don't learn something NEW....even on the old six string version of C6th. Some folks are happy just to play a tune while others aren't happy unless it's a really good performance. There is room for everyone at all levels of learning.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 19 Aug 2003 5:05 pm

I must disagree with your first sentence, Mr Bill Hankey. There is very much a shortage of desire.

To become a very accomplished player, I must play professionally. The low pay scale and bad working conditions (the road), keep me from this. If I really had the desire, I would find a way to accept these conditions.

Very often, the word "talent" can be translated into the degree of "desire" one has to accomplish his/her goal.

Rick

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 19 Aug 2003 5:13 pm

..there's no revelations here...it's been said a gazillion times, about musicians, athletes, whatever, and it's still true..

..there are some people who just have the God-given ability to excell at certain things..if they also have the desire to put in the work..

...there are many who simply do not have that level of ability and no amount of desire will give it to them...but desire will make them perform to the best of their ability, and to continue to redefine what the "best of their ability" is throughout their life, if they put in the time and work..

...even the U.S. Army has covered this topic..."Be All That You Can Be"...

(or for those not willing to put forth the effort.."Be All That You Can Be")..[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 19 August 2003 at 06:17 PM.]

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 19 Aug 2003 5:28 pm

Good question.

A superficial analysis would seem to support the view that desires are routinely thwarted. There are times where a player might have taken a more productive road -- at least from a free-will perspective

-- but instead fell short in discipline. Then there are the times where what appears to be honest and complete effort still fails.

The reason I qualify the above analysis by saying it is superficial, is that I know that the present fabric of our lives is the result of desires stretching way back. Desire is the motivating factor behind so much, and desires in one area of activity necessarily have effects in other areas.

For certain present desires to fully bear fruit, too many existent influences, already set in motion, would have to be negated.

I certainly can't prove it, but I'm open to the idea that every desire bears fruit of one kind or another. It just might not be in the exact form of the initial impulse.

I also believe that it's possible to evolve to the point where one's desires are in harmony with the way things really ought to be, rather than the way the ego would like them to be.

There seems to be a fair amount of data from my own life to suggest that while a surface level of desire often fails to bear its intended fruit, a deeper level of desire, one which might be said to approach "who I really am," does in fact play out in the real world.

There are some significant things in my life where I often wish things would have turned out differently, but if I'm really honest with myself, I often see that these things serve what for me is a more core purpose.

As to the question of how much of our lives could be said to be random, or totally beyond our control, I don't know. I do know that the level at which we do have control often isn't conscious.

Okay, enough "Deep Thoughts."

Hey Bill, a side note: I drove by Music Manor in Fort Wayne a couple of days ago, and the house-store is now something totally different than when Shorty Cook and his wife lived there. They must be somewhere else now.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 20 Aug 2003 12:05 am

Jeff S.,

The mismatch of zeal and ability is a very common phenomena, ascribed to those who have been taught to set their sights high, in order to attain that which is desirable. Unfortunately, for those who zip through the attainment of worldly achievements and possessions, with very few problems, find their attempts to become an accomplished steel guitarist overnight, is usually out of their grasp. The confidence needed to brawl with this mountainous task, comes from an individual longing for something special, and not from parental influences. If the "element" of overconfidence is a characteristic of a given subject, it will very quickly surface, once the individual seriously tries to master the steel guitar.

Jeff, I'm concerned about Shorty Cook. I'll try getting in touch with fellow band member, Kenny Roberts. He was always willing to fill me in on matters relating to changes made, after the group known as, "The Down Homers"; separated.

Bill H.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 Aug 2003 6:41 am

My own feeling is that there is some innate measure of talents and abilities in us all. We seem to be, from birth, "hardwired" in certain disciplines. I have come to this conclusion based on my own observations of hundreds of players. There are players who have been working just as long and hard as I have, but they don't seem to have my "touch" and abilities. And, by the same token, there are players who have been playing half the time I have been playing that can literally can play circles around me. I cannot explain this, nor can I deny it.

There also seems the fact that we, pros and amateurs alike, one day reach a certain plateau of ability, and thereupon find it almost impossible to reach the same level of advancement that we were once capable of. This does not mean that anyone cannot reach an acceptable level of proficiency on the instrument, but just that few will achieve the level of what I describe as "greatness". Most of us are quite (though begrudgingly) content with being "good" at it.

It is interesting to note, however, that this characteristic that I call "greatness" is determined also by a point in time. That is to say, we judge the exceptional players by their peers, and the fewer peers they have, the "greater" they seem to be. Take solace in the fact that were most any of us taken back in time far enough, we would have been considered "great" on our instrument. I suppose this is why, in most endeavors, "greatness" is sometimes classified as being "ahead of our time".

In addition, we must consider that this "greatness" is also determined somewhat subjectively, and that players that I myself would consider "great", may not be considered so by everyone else, and vice-versa.

Buddy Emmons · Post by **Buddy Emmons** » 20 Aug 2003 6:59 am

On a serious note, over the years, I've stayed at a point somewhat similar to that of the man trying to catch a deer on foot. I'm just fast enough to get my finger in the deer's hind end, but not fast enough to crook it for a snag.

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 20 Aug 2003 7:05 am

You must have a desire to be the best or at least one of em. I reached a level I was satisfied with and now hardly ever even play anymore.

But Buddy you once had that desire and became the best. And the level you're at now is good enough to rest on if you never learn another thing.

Bob[This message was edited by Bob Carlson on 20 August 2003 at 08:13 AM.]

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 20 Aug 2003 7:52 am

Careful, Buddy. That sucker stops for a salt lick when you're that close and your gonna break your wrist.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 20 Aug 2003 8:11 am

Buddy E.,

All I can say is that the stag had better keep his footing, and not slip on a slope. The buck would be bagged in a New York minute. Thanks for the profundity, and for adding a little spice to this thread. If we had some simmered venison stew, this subject matter would have a happy ending. The stew is delicious!!!

Bill H.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 20 Aug 2003 9:29 am

I have been friends with three people in my life who I would consider "great", world-class musicians, and what they had in common was that they all started very young, by the age of seven or eight. There's something about the flexibility and absorptive capabilities of the mind at that age that puts people out ahead of the pack later on. Plus, at the age when teenage boys are just picking up guitars to try to get chicks, these people have already spent their years slogging through scales and patterns and are already composing original music.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 20 Aug 2003 10:24 am

Donny H.,

Nothing much has ever been accomplished through speculation. There is an open road to improving ones playing style though. Just a few changes in our outlook can overturn the difficulties of convincing ourselves that we've progressed as far as possible. Getting a little more sentimental about sweet melodies, that could sound so much better, by experimenting with different inversions, and laying in maximum musical expression. A steel guitar set up improperly can be a tantamount hindrance, by holding back efforts made by the player who cannot play what he or she feels.
If you haven't done so, try bringing the ring finger into play. That extra tone equals a much enhanced chord/melody presentation.

Bill H.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 Aug 2003 12:05 pm

Bill, as soon as my playing with two finger picks reaches the the level of competence that most pros had thirty-five years ago (when they were using only two), I'll move on to using three.

My own thoughts are that the mere addition of more notes into a chord, or more chords into a song, does not necessarily translate into a better performance, or better playing.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 20 Aug 2003 12:18 pm

For about a dozen years, my advancement was on hold. I spent most of my spare time learning computer technology, building my career and expanding my BBS hobby. My steel came out of its case for weekend gigs only - I rarely even set it up at home. It wasn't unusual for my strings to be over 6 months old.

Mrs. Lee snapped me out of it around 1994. I think I've been getting better ever since. Sometimes all it takes is a good woman to nudge you back to the right track now and then.

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
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Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 20 Aug 2003 12:37 pm

Sometimes all it takes is a good woman to nudge you back to the right track now and then.

Pleae move this thread to the Humor Forum.

Jackie Anderson · Post by **Jackie Anderson** » 20 Aug 2003 1:47 pm

Several of my (five) children have been very serious about competing in sports. The one who has accomplished the most is the one with the least apparent "natural athletic ability" -- and clearly the greatest desire. He also has always had difficulty with reading and speaking, and he is doing fine in college, entering his junior year. Those who are obviously doing the best they can with what gifts they have just always stand out.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 20 Aug 2003 3:18 pm

The snag... I about died.

I have a good "deer story" but it's for later.

The way I've seen myself and others' developement, and Desire/Ability thing develop is like this:

Many of us have splintered lives, and many desires. Some them consume our lives totally for a time, or partially. Some momentary ones seem to swallow up more of our lives than they should. They might make us run and hide unneccessarily, as it turns out, or slowly overtake us. There are all varying degrees..

We might, as I have, let our "ability" become stagnant by playing with endless strings of hack bands.

As time passes, the most dominant desire is likely to win out. God, I believe is mercifully forgiving in most cases, and circumstances will sometimes part "the seas" and allow a person to have a "renaisance", as if saying " go ahead, spend some time on it".

Sometimes the effects of years of hacking are insurmountable. Sometimes they are not. I'm amazed at how lucky I have been in this respect.

The "spark" I got from Bud Charleton, Don West and Mr Emmons never died.

Endless strings of grinding, non rehearsed money making indeed took it's toll in the last 24-5 years. Overall, Good bands brought my ability up, lousy ones didn't hurt me as much as they could or should have. I credit quitting drinking 24 years ago with the latter.

Since that time, I have had several "passions". Some have detracted from my playing, some not.

I suppose we all have our Devils, and "wasted years".

If Desire is there, it will always afford Us a certain amount of dissatisfaction with our Ability, and if God, and Time allow, we will be able to increase it.

There could be cases where the Ability increases exponentially, and then becomes more difficult, such as Mr Green's hearing problems, or possibly the struggles Mr Emmons has had lately with arthritis.

Maybe Mr Charleton looks back as my period with him there at Oxon Hill Music as his "Dark Period".. (bbbwwahahah)

If Desire is there, and is the most dominant of the bunch of Desires that consume most of our mundane and splintered lives, then ability, with God's help will be more attainable than most of us realise.

I have always had a Desire to become "one of the best". I apologize to no one. Also At this point in time, I don't think I've even come slose to achieving it. What other people think of my playing IS important, but I got news for them. It's what "I" think of it that will make me go home and practice, or flat "give up" and just "play through the gig"..

Too loud? Put some cotten in your ears or go home. Too quiet" talk to the sound man if I can't turn it up any more. (To much reverb? What.. what... what...?)

Watching the glee and rapture BC experienced playing the simplest of vocal backups, or playing the latest thing he'd "steal off a Buddy Emmons Record" and playing it with more perfection when NO ONE would think that was possible.

Watching Mr Emmons taking a FLAWLESS ride looking like he was driving a jeep three feet off the seat after hitting a bump with trees straight in front of him that he was giving NO thought to, and coming out of it "THE BOMB", with guys trying for YEARS to cop licks off it that he came up with in a tenth of a second. All with a calm smile..

Watching Don West launch a "Solo from Mars" that made Jimmy Groves pray that he'd sharpened his Telecaster enough for HIS turn, while Mary Burgess was trying to remember the words to a Lorreta Lynn song she'd sung for 20 years.

Those things formed my Desire.

My Ability?

I don't know. I've hauled more asphalt and heavy equipment than a lot of people have seen, breathing enough rock dust and deisel to choke a small city.

I did weekend gigs for a couple years with the worst of the worst. I played for people that no one else would or could deal with. Sometimes for 7 nites in long strings wile working days.

Building a Harley, I tried to take a "vacation". I got it to keep in the good graces of a bastard son in law that I was going to shoot at work. We became "Bros" and I was allowed to make more than enough money to pay for it instead of doing 5-10 for manslaughter. I needed a "hobby" anyhow.

My "vacation" lasted about two weeks. I built it, worked 60 hours a week, and still gigged.

The greats that I was lucky enough to witness awoke my Desire.

They did so in a fashion that it has remained the strongest one of the too many I've suffered myself through.

If that was part of their Desire, then they did indeed gain the Ability.

I'm not a fan of "sitting at home". I don't suggest it for anyone. It tends to magnify doubts and bitterness. and does increase "self satisfaction" albeit at the expense of having no witnesses. It tends to mask Failure with the mirage of Success.

Much as a Mirage in the Desert turns out to be the Opposite of what it appears to be, and not just "illusion", so often is the mirage of "success" one feels when "out of the pubic eye".

Oh, I suppose that one could actually be a "master" without getting out there and Doing, like the people that have influenced and awakened my Desire, but I haven't seen or heard one yet. Not even on a record or CD.

Since this is your thread Mr Hankey, I will allow myself the digression.

Maybe you can design a "deer hook" and bring it to St Louis.

Me? I'll be playing a weekend at Jubitz with a good band and hauling asphalt except for Monday when I'll be crashing from it all..

Thanks for the indulgence.

I'm still working on my Ability, and pray that I get more time to do more with it.

I just never could shake the Desire.

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 20 August 2003 at 04:41 PM.]

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 20 Aug 2003 6:10 pm

ability never reaches desire. it just intersects with other's desires who are removed enough from the process to perceive it as a desirable ability. the snag never gets crooked otherwise why get up[This message was edited by ebb on 20 August 2003 at 07:43 PM.]

Everette Reeves · Post by **Everette Reeves** » 20 Aug 2003 6:35 pm

I do appreciate hearing what all you guys went through during your careers. The general gist of it sounds very much like my first career which was a Morse code radio operator in the military. I fould that while one is starting to learn the code it looks like a very large mountain but you keep at it and you reach a "plateau". One seems to stay at that plateau and, all of a sudden, he seems to just jump from one plateau to the next higher one. I was alway pleasantly surprised when that happened! Of course, after one has done it for many years, it seems that these plateaus are farther and farther apart. (and harder to reach). I found that to be true of the steel, also! Thanks for the good thoughts! Regards, Paul

Wayne Baker · Post by **Wayne Baker** » 20 Aug 2003 6:36 pm

If your ability has equaled your desire than you've self-actualized. I'm no Paul Franklin, but I'm not stoppin' learnin' steel until I just can't do it anymore. I'm never gonna be as good as I want to be, but if I can just get someone to show me once, I've either got it, or will work on it till I do. Its not just ability or hunger, its heart as well.

I watch everything you guys do. Don't think for a minute that if I go out and see my friend John play a hot lick that I'm not gonna get him to show me how he did it. I think everyone with the right appoach can get it done. Lord knows I've come a long way baby.

Thanks,
Wayne Baker

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 20 Aug 2003 7:04 pm

If your ability has equaled your desire than you've self-actualized

Have you read anything by Abe Maslow, Wayne?

One seems to stay at that plateau and, all of a sudden, he seems to just jump from one plateau to the next higher one.

I remember learning about something called "quantum" learning. In physics they conducted experiments where light energy would be released in packets, called "quanta."

Somebody adapted that terminology to describe a phenomena they believed took place in learning. Much as you describe, a certain amount of time would be put into learning a certain group of skills, while nothing really dramatic happens in terms of new abilities. Then, suddenly, all of the new stuff comes together; a whole new level of ability dramatically appears.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 20 Aug 2003 8:10 pm

Yeah.

What the last three guys said..

EJL

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 21 Aug 2003 3:29 am

Bobby Lee,

I do agree with you, as you espouse the spousal issue. It wouldn't be unreasonable for a man to believe, and promise a fair lady, that with her by his side, nothing would stand in his way. In the life of a steel guitarist, the special demands that require much dedication and practice sessions, could present a marital "rub". All-round successes relating to steel guitar advancement comes in varying degrees, depending largely on married or single statuses. Music is very much like a food menu. I dare to say, that everyone, including spouses, will find a change of menu to suit their tastes; most welcome. This of course, is naturally conflicting, with becoming adept, or reaching specified goals.

Speaking of specific goals, I keep looking out to imagine Buddy Emmons in hot pursuit, of a venison dinner, with pointed finger, and it becomes mind-boggling, due to his practical approaches to musical challenges. Prior to the fantisized chase, everything had been so well thought out. In essence, it portrays the difficulties of trying to ascend to the upper echelon.

Bill Hankey [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 22 August 2003 at 04:50 AM.]