Pickup cover on Oahu Diana affects tone?

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 22 Jun 2005 6:41 am

I acquired an Oahu Diana last weekend. Very nice guitar, long scale (much bigger sweet spot, more forgiving).

Anyway, I took the metal pickup cover off and started adjusting the pole pieces until I was happy with the volume and tone of each string. I then reattached the cover and the tone was different.

Any explanation for this?

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 22 June 2005 at 01:37 PM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 22 Jun 2005 6:49 am

Is this the "Supro" type pickup? If so, it's very important that you put the magnets on in exactly the same position as they were (the 'side walls' of the pickup that the cover plate rests on).

You don't really need to remove the cover for adjusting the polepieces, there are holes in the cover plate that should correspond with the polepieces so you can reach them with a tiny screwdriver. Again,- I'm assuming it's one of those "Supro" string-through pickups you've got...

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 22 Jun 2005 7:00 am

This Diana does not have the string-thru pickup. The pickup looks like a typical guitar pickup with six adjustable poles. There are no holes thru the "Treble Clef" pickup cover. The pickup cover is attached to the guitar with two wood screws.

BTW - The tone is much better (fatter) with the cover attached.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 22 June 2005 at 08:01 AM.]

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 22 Jun 2005 7:06 am

Gerald, slants are more difficult on a long scale especially five frets and lower. Take a ruler and use as a bar and you will see that it is impossible to line up the strgs and frets accurately. Of course you can always do like me and use plenty of vibrato down on that end of the neck, CC

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 22 Jun 2005 7:19 am

CC, I beg to differ with you. IMHO slants are only "slightly" harder to achieve below the 5th fret, but they are doable (provided the string spacing is wide enough). And the slants near and above the 12th fret are much easier to grab and play in tune.

I also feel that if you came to the non-pedal steel from a standard guitar background your "muscle memory" of where the notes are located is more ingrained using a 25" scale.

There are no 22" resophonic guitars, most are around 25". Sol Hoopii, King Bennie and Bob Nichols had no problem slanting.

I'm starting to think that the whole 22" scale "rule" is an Urban Myth .

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 22 June 2005 at 08:21 AM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 22 Jun 2005 7:21 am

This Diana does not have the string-thru pickup.

I see... I had a Oahu Diana with the string-through pickup, so that's why I guessed that was the case with yours as well.
I have absolutely no idea why removing the 'treble clef' cover should affect the sound..

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 22 June 2005 at 08:22 AM.]

Richard Shatz · Post by **Richard Shatz** » 22 Jun 2005 8:08 am

Perhaps the pickup cover has some magnetic property that causes some flux changes. Maybe Rick Aiello will chime in.

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 22 Jun 2005 8:33 am

Gerald I was refering to us guys who do not have your ability. There is no way you can get an accurate 3 stg.split strg slant on the 5th fret down. When Jerry Byrd can't do it and relies on heavy vibrato down there it must apply to us commoners. I play pedal steel also 25" scale and of course I don't need to slant on the low frets although I do at other fret when it sounds better cc

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 22 Jun 2005 8:49 am

Gerald...while I sincerely respect your great talent on steel, (read: "envious"), I'm inclined to agree with that olde phart down there in Killeen.

When I bought my JB Frypan from Jerry, I originally ordered the long scale model. Jerry wrote me to say that, while the sustain may be better, he himself preferred the short scale and recommended I change my order accordingly. He mentioned the intonation problem of slants on the long scale below the 5th fret. (For what it's worth).

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 22 Jun 2005 9:07 am

Any time you have steel close to magnets ... their magnetic lines of force will be altered ... in terms of their path.

The stronger the magnet and the closer the steel ... the greater the "detour".

Now, backing a magnet with steel, well that really "pumps up the juice" ...

Suspending steel over a magnet will have much less affect (compared to backing it).

I don't know if that's what goin' on here ... certainly a possibility ...

Another possibility ...

All pickups are microphonic to some extent ... and the big cover might be causing an "echo chamber" effect ...

As far as the long scale ... is 25.625" long enough for ya ...

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Aiello's House of Gauss


My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 22 June 2005 at 10:15 AM.]

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 22 Jun 2005 9:39 am

CC & Keoki,

There's nothing wrong with adding copious amounts of vibrato when you slant below the 5th fret on a long scale steel. That's how you get it in "in tune". That's how you play a long scale instrument.

I feel the benefits of tone and "sweet spot" on a long scale outweigh the negatives of difficult lower fret slants.

I'll agree that attempting a lower fret slant on an instrument with tight string spacing such as a Stringmaster or Pedal Steel is quite difficult. But on an instrument with wider string spacing and a long scale it's pretty attainable.

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 22 June 2005 at 10:51 AM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 22 Jun 2005 9:53 am

.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 22 June 2005 at 11:48 AM.]

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 22 Jun 2005 9:53 am

copious amounts of vibrato

Click Gomez & Tish

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 22 Jun 2005 10:03 am

Gomez and Morticia...

The first married couple in American television history to have an obvious sexual relationship.

Mr. Ed and Wilbur were more affectionate to each other than most TV married couples in the 1950's and 60's.

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

Derrick Mau · Post by **Derrick Mau** » 22 Jun 2005 10:54 am

I'm with Gerald and Jim. 3 string slants below the 5th are definately doable; I do them all the time on my long scale frypan, and without having to use heavy vibrato to cover up from sounding flat, but you'd really have to practice, practice, practice. The more you do them, you'll get more accustomed to knowing just the right angle to use with the bar and the adjustments in angle the closer you get to the neck.

Mike D · Post by **Mike D** » 22 Jun 2005 11:21 am

The first married couple in American television history to have an obvious sexual relationship.

What about Bert and Ernie?

Oop, sorry, you said married didn't you?

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Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 22 Jun 2005 12:07 pm

Derrick, please define practice. Is it something like sparkin in the moonlight?

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 22 Jun 2005 2:27 pm

Rick, what do you do if the scale is only 25.62456 ??<
Nice looking guitar Gerald.[This message was edited by Bill Creller on 22 June 2005 at 03:30 PM.]

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 22 Jun 2005 3:33 pm

Bill ... shrinkage is the Scourge of Mankind ...

I had it factored in ... but ... it's just unpredictable ...

Right Mr. Costanza...

Click on George

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Aiello's House of Gauss


My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 22 June 2005 at 04:34 PM.]

Derrick Mau · Post by **Derrick Mau** » 22 Jun 2005 4:03 pm

Hi C.C.

In Hawaii, we practice till our fingers turn blue. Gabby used to make jams in his yard that lasted for 2 to 3 days.

That's how we got the song "Blue Hawaiian Moonlight".

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 22 Jun 2005 4:29 pm

I'm with Gerald and Derrick. I only play 24.5"+ scale instruments now.
I don't feel the 3-note split string slant really adds anything more to a solo. I think Jerry Byrd just did them to stump all the amateur non-peddlers out there trying to mimic his records. For me they're an interesting effect, but really, what do they add? A sporadic 7th, 9th, a diminished triad? And at best, they are still applied in haphazard fashion. It would be different if a solo contained 3-note split string slants and the steel played 3 part harmony throughout, with all parts weaving seamlessly. But I haven't heard anything like that yet, not even from Jerry.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 22 Jun 2005 6:25 pm

Derrick and Jeff...I'm NOT saying slants are not "do-able" on long necks...I was merely stating a preferance for the short neck. I have both and have no problem playing either, yet I still prefer the short neck.

Todd Weger · Post by **Todd Weger** » 24 Jun 2005 5:33 am

Hey Gerald -- do you have any clips with you playing the GT Oahu? I'd love to hear what it sounds like. Also, any clips with you playing the GT/Beard reso of yours? I'd really like to hear one of those, too. The idea of getting a second reso to have at the ready in another tuning is beginning to gnaw at me.

Personally, I like the short scale for some things, the longer scale for others. I like being able to put fatter strings on the shorty, and get a thicker, meatier tone, particularly for single note stuff. But the sustain on my longer '56 is definitely richer and goes forever. I like that guitar for the more lush chordal stuff.

TJW

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 24 Jun 2005 5:40 am

Hi Todd,

GT Oahu??? What do you mean? This steel is a genuine Oahu not a Gold Tone reissue.

I have only had the Oahu for 6 days now. I have not had time to record anything. It's summertime, I don't spend much time inside my "man cave" recording. Although... my new Ukulele CD will be available in around two weeks (recorded during the winter).

I only have one recording of the Gold Tone Mahogony Reso. Here it is. I'm not happy with the recorded tone. I had the microphone to close to the resonator and it's sounds a bit harsh and brittle.

Nalani

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

Todd Weger · Post by **Todd Weger** » 24 Jun 2005 6:25 am

Gerald -- sorry about my Oahu snafu... I don't know why I thought it was a Gold-Tone. Looks beautiful.

Nice recording on Nalani. I'm glad to be able to hear the Jenny concert on that, too. Sounds pretty darn sweet! I know what you're saying about the reso tone, but I don't think it's too brittle -- maybe just a wee bit.

Where do you pick on the neck? I try to pick around the 14th fret or so on the reso (actually, even on my laps, too). I notice a seriously major softening and warming of tone by picking around that area. Anything further back towards the bridge sounds too blue-grassy to me for playing Hawaiian. The problem is, when I'm singing and trying to play steel at the same time, I keep forgetting, and find my damn hand has moved back towards the bridge... arrrrrrggghh...

TW