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Topic: Holy Hearing Aids Batman! |
David Mullis
From:
Rock Hill, SC
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Posted 18 Jun 2003 7:45 am |
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Well, I went to audition with a local band last night and ended up packing it up early. These dudes were just obnoxiously loud. I was pushing a 135 watt twin over the edge just to hear myself! What's up with that? Pure ignorance? Or a burning desire to be deaf before you're 40?
After the first song they complimented my playing and said "We hope you're going to stick around" I was like "well I dunno it's a little loud guys." They turned down a little and we played 4 or 5 more songs then they took a smoke break. When we came back and started playing again it was even louder than when we started! I played two more songs with them then told them that I had to get going and made an excuse about having to get up early in the morning.
Anyone else run into this?
David "My ears are still ringing!" Mullis
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 18 Jun 2003 9:18 am
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I'm doing a few gigs this summer with a band that is too loud. I actually picked up a Vegas 400 specifically so I could keep up with these guys volume wise (I had been using a 65W tube amp previously).
The Snare is the loudest thing, and that gates the bass player, and that gates the lead tele player, etc...
I don't think they realize they are completely drowning out the lead singer, who is supposedly the big draw for the group.
Ya know what?... I don't give a shite!... I have custom molded musicians earplugs with 9db, 15db and 25db cut insert filters (as the case may be), and with the Vegas 400 and Music Man RD112 Sixtey-Five in stereo, I'll be teachin' them what clean headroom is all about Bay-Bee!
I have those industrial 35db cut foam plugs too, as well as my lawn mowin', gun shootin' ear muffs!
I'm actually thinking of bringing a plexi glass divider that I used to put around the drummer to separate the snare/bass concussion from reaching me.
I'm hoping they will actually ask me if I think there are any improvements that can be made to the band, but till then, ya know what W.F.O stands for?!
Wide F'n Open!  |
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seldomfed
From:
Colorado
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Posted 18 Jun 2003 9:23 am
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Ho yes - I left a band once because the vol. issue just didn't get better. I spoke up often but it didn't help. I used my ER-15's at practice all the time, but you shouldn't have too.
Actually - there a lots of people who are hard of hearing and won't admit it. Our guitar player finally admited he couldn't hear well. It was obvious when he kept asking for the monitor to be louder. It's sort of a problem since the rest of the band really doesn't need loud monitors. I'm thinking about helping him get an in-ear system. He finally has a hearing aid but won't use it. Hmmmmm.
chris
------------------
Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"There is no spoon"
www.book-em-danno.com
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David Mullis
From:
Rock Hill, SC
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Posted 18 Jun 2003 10:32 am
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| I use to carry hearing protection in my pack a seat, but I guess I took it out the last time I cleaned it out. Man I sure wish I'd had those ear plugs last night! I guess I could have given these guys a chance, but, they were way too "new country" for my taste. |
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jlsmith48
From:
blackwell ok usa
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Posted 18 Jun 2003 12:27 pm
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| Nothing more irratating than a drummer that thinks that he is makeing all the music. I even quit a band that had my son as the drummer because of his LOUD playing. 2 years was enough. Did'nt help my ears any either.What ever happened to hi-hat and rim-shot??? |
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Tony LaCroix
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 18 Jun 2003 1:10 pm
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Dynamic change is what makes the difference between a good band and a great band, in my opinion. And the band's overall volume must be the responsibility and concern of each individual member. If not, the band can never sound any better that the sum of its parts. Austin's music scene suffers greatly from the all-night-long-at-the-same-loud-volume syndrome (with exceptions). It's almost like dynamic change within a song has become a lost art. When I mention it to some musicians, they take offense, as though I had just personally attacked their playing. No amount of skill and crafty songwriting will grab an audience's attention like a "crack-down" (slowly building to a furious intensity of volume and tension, so that it feels as though the band may explode, and then suddenly coming down with a huge CRACK...and then... next to nothing...you should see the audience members cupping their ears, trying to hear the band. The loud-mouth lady in the back should be embarrassed because the loudest thing is the room is her cell phone conversation. People on the street should be popping their heads in the place to see if everybody is still OK.) Lord forbid, music should become exciting... I, for one, didn't pick up the guitar because it was so incredibly mundane.
Quiet should be the starting point and standard. Loud is a tool for punctuation; it serves no purpose on its own but to frustrate listeners and get the band fired.[This message was edited by Tony LaCroix on 18 June 2003 at 02:11 PM.] |
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David Mullis
From:
Rock Hill, SC
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Posted 18 Jun 2003 2:40 pm
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| Exactamundo Tony! Dynamics are a lot of fun. I haven't played with a band that utilized them in years though. |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 19 Jun 2003 3:39 am
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Hey David
I would have as nicely as possible directly said.
Ok guys, I like the music and the players alright, But I CAN NOT play at these volumes.
That's the bottom line sorry. That's why I am leaving. My ears come 1st.
Maybe if this happens a few times maybe they will "get it."
A polite excuse and leaving is nice, but serves no purpose except to extricate you cleanly.
Of course wait till you're packed and in the car to say it LOL. 
Oh yeah, and all the comments about dynamics too.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 19 June 2003 at 04:42 AM.] |
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David Mullis
From:
Rock Hill, SC
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Posted 19 Jun 2003 3:43 am
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Hey David,
I think they actually knew why I was really leaving. I got an email from the lead guitarist the next day stating he got the impression that they were not what I was looking for, so I emailed him back and told him that he was right, and why. Turns out these guys are former rock and rollers trying to go country. At least that was their excuse for playing so loud.
Take Care
David
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 19 Jun 2003 5:53 am
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So I guess the question is.
If they played at a reasonable level would you have been interested?
If the answer is not really, nothing's lost, IF the answer is yes, then that's too bad for them.
But it is cool that they were even interested in a steel these days.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 19 June 2003 at 06:54 AM.] |
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David Mullis
From:
Rock Hill, SC
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Posted 19 Jun 2003 7:50 am
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| I would have played with them, but, it wouldn't have been what I would consider the best gig for me. They're playing alot of newer country, some rock (which I don't mind) and not nearly enough traditional country. In the long run, even if the volume weren't an issue, I wouldn't have been happy anyway, so no big deal. |
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John Russell
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 19 Jun 2003 8:08 pm
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| David L. Donald has the right response! "No offense guys, but this is no fun, turn it down." I've discussed this issue many times on this forum. At a certain point in one's career you pretty much have to "get along, go along." If you're persistent or just plain stubborn you'll find the guys who do it your way. Don't sacrifice your hearing to boneheads who just don't get it. In my experience the better players don't need the extreme volume. It's something you go thru in early adulthood 'cause you'll never make it to middle age with your nerves and hearing intact. Concert sound levels have gotten pretty extreme for most rock and country shows. It's ridiculous. The musicians onstage often don't even know it, they may be turned down but the sound crew wants it cranked to 12. Ear plugs and friendly pursuasion might be the fix. --JR |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 20 Jun 2003 1:58 am
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Hi John thanks for the supportive comments.
I have mixed thousands of shows. Volume is NOT the goal.. at least for me. Getting a good renenforcement of the stage sound in a smaller room, and in large rooms, a controled and balanced sound with all elements clear in the whole room.
The idea of smaller time aligned stacks at multiple places in a hall is great because you can get clear sound at all spaces with out blasting out any one segment of the audience.
But there are still guys that think...
I have 20,000 watts.. it's there to be used.
and use it all.
That's just nuts. |
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Anders Brundell
From:
Falun, Sweden
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Posted 20 Jun 2003 2:11 am
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It´s usually the drummer that brings up the volume, ain´t it? We are spontaneously very low on volume when we rehearse whithout a drummer, but we have to adapt to the drummer´s sound level when he´s playing with us, and he says he can´t make music of a song if he has to hold himself back in order not to get too loud.
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 20 Jun 2003 2:54 am
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I too went over and jammed with these guys..basically as a lets find out who's playing around deal, they all live about 20 minutes from me.
David was wrong..they were louder than he said. But they were obnoxious, he was right about that..
They asked me what I thought after jamming for an hour or so, I just pretty much said if they go out as a Country Band they will be in trouble.They didn't like that...
The pretty much are a very loud, un-tight overdriven, excessive , no meter, out of tune, in your face, too many speakers, too many amps, smoke too much , way too many effects, don't know what the word listen means, Rock band ! But they did play 1 Alan Jacson song and about 6 Keith Urban songs, so I can say with certainty that the Opry influence of Keith Urban has struck gold.The new wave of County bands is out there gettin' ready as we type and read..
I was pretty impressed with the Carvin amps though..they could definetly kill a cat in a small room..
And this was the first time I ever played alongside a rhythm guitar player who was playing thru a full Carvin Stack ( 8/12's ) . Oh yea, it was important that they all used wireless transmitters in this 10x 10 space too..That was special
I managed to escape after creating my own misery..
I gotta go check my Nashville 1000 to see if the magnet is still connected to the back of the speaker...it may have blown off after last night..
Ok, David, next time I'm listening to you for sure...I've learned my lesson well..( is this a song ? ) you can't please everyone so ya ..gotta please yourself...
tp |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 20 Jun 2003 6:15 am
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| Quote: |
| he says he can´t make music of a song if he has to hold himself back in order not to get too loud. |
Ah, some of the purest, grade A, merde de toro (BS)
Well there are fine jazz drummers who have played with un-miced acoustic pianos for decades and make GREAT music.
I have played with Alan Dawson who created Berklee's drum department.
This guy could play awesome "melodic drums" with one hand, one stick and two feet and
still have the rolls and hits. ]With a soda in his other hand and not spill a drop...
AT acoustic piano levels.
Small sticks great tecnique! May he rest in peace and be in Gods private rhythm section with Dizzy on horn. |
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Nicholas Dedring
From:
Beacon, New York, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2003 8:18 am
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I've always felt that the better a drummer, the better they are at playing rhythmically tight stuff at a low volume. Part of the problem is that some drummers practice at full steam in their own homes, and never work on a light touch with control and meter. I was playing saxophone with some folks, and the first drummer we had was so loud that I was blowing my head off every session. The guitar player was always across the room, and walked over toward me once... and when the tune stopped he just smiled and said: "Wow I haven't really heard what you were doing before! That was great!" Sheesh. The second guy we got was not only quieter, he was quieter because he was worlds better, and more tasteful to boot. I would never want to have to wear ear protection for a practice, as no matter how good it is, it still makes it way too hard to get parts right, and HEAR what's happening around you. Sorry to run on.
edited for typos[This message was edited by Nicholas Dedring on 20 June 2003 at 09:19 AM.] |
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Gerald Menke
From:
Stormville NY, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2003 9:20 am
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Quote:
"In my experience the better players don't need the extreme volume."
AMEN John!! That should be on the doorway of every practice room and club!!! Thanks for putting that in such a succinct and potent way. Brought a big smile to my face.
Gerald |
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Jesse Harris
From:
Ventura, California, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2003 11:51 am
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go pete go.
I love that response.
j |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 21 Jun 2003 2:28 am
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sorry David..350 wouldn't cut it..
These cats were "ALL" running a few hundred watts with a sound system running at least that.
Think about it..
A bass running a few hundred watts with a whole bunch of speakers, a rhythm player running thur a full 2 cabinet stack with 8x12's and the guitar player playing thur another kinda maxed out Carvin amp with every effect known to man overdriving the front end and a sound system with like 2 huge Altec sorta Peavey speakers and a bunch of floor monitors. Now do remember that all this was in a 10x10 space !
This was clearly a war of who has the most speakers and can use them to the max..
Now turn them all on and play maxed out at the same time .....
My Nashville 1000 with a single 15 at 300 watts was just part of the oeverall mush.Was it loud ? ..oh yes..was it dominant ? oh no....was I a friggin' nut case to continue ? Oh yes....
This was clearly a "Two Marshall Stacks" gig...and it was just a rehearsal jam !
I tell you what though..
last week David M. invited me to a jam with some of his friends , now those cats were awesome.
David is one fine drummer ..he can play Country correctly and with meter..
two of his pals, Steve Garrison and Brian Hudson, are two of the finest Steel players I have heard shy of Nashville.
That was a fun time and we jammed for a couple of hours, I was playing Tele' along with two others , Bass and Tele' as well..
My 40 Watt Fender Deluxe was way more than required for that jam..like it should have been...
later..
tp |
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Charles French
From:
Ms.
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Posted 21 Jun 2003 7:12 am
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| Granted I don't play large venues.But for average clubs, if the band knows how to find the sweet spot you dont need any monitors. I've been honky tonkin for 30 years and NEVER use monitors. You know your in trouble if your working with a band that has to setup a day before the job. We can setup in 30 and break down in 15. |
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Bob Hayes
From:
Church Hill,Tenn,USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2003 8:18 am
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WHAAAAAAAAAAAAT??????????????????????????
CAN YOU HEAR ME YETTTTTTTT???????????????????
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 21 Jun 2003 8:31 am
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Bob,
Would you edit out at least half of those mmm's ? They make it so the thread does not fit on my screen.
thanks, Bob |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 22 Jun 2003 3:00 pm
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| I always try to turn mine down from screaming to unbearable. |
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