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Topic: Classical steel recordings? |
David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 12 Jun 2003 8:47 am |
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Yesterday listening to Steel Guitar Radio I heard a beautiful pedal steel version of Pacabel's Canon in D. It sounded like it could have been Mike Perlowin, but I'm not sure. Who was that? It was a really long version and sounded like they captured most of the themes, possibly from the full score.
Other than Mike's Firebird Suite CD, does anyone know of other classical steel recordings? |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2003 9:11 am
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That was probably Buddy Emmons.
I'm moving this topic to the 'Steel Players' section of the Forum. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2003 9:23 am
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| I am working out some pieces from the Baroque period, and at this rate I plan to start recording them in about 40 years. |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2003 10:03 am
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| Taco Bell's "Canon in D" really lends itself to the steel guitar, another good one would be Debussy's "Clear the Saloon". |
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Roy Thomson
From:
Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada
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Posted 12 Jun 2003 10:09 am
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I like to work with Classical Guitar arrangements from time to time. It is time
consuming but rewarding.
Here is a link to one such arrangement that
provides the MP3 together with the Music Notation which was not done in a few days either.
Makes one appreciate the genius of the masters,,, and a couple hundred years ago at that. http://www.clictab.com/royt/tab36.htm |
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Dave Van Allen
From:
Souderton, PA , US , Earth
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Posted 12 Jun 2003 11:10 am
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Pachelbel Canon in Dm = Emmons "White""/ "Rainbow" album... Buddy's range of genre's on this record is wide and amazing, from Wabash Cannonball on dobro to hawaiian to country to rock to classical...
Marshall Hall's "Classical Steel Guitar"LP out of print stunning workups of classical guitar pieces and other stuff on steel. very serious cat... |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 12 Jun 2003 11:29 am
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Doug Jernigan's 'Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring' is excellent, as well. He did some cool classical guitar style stuff (e.g., 'Streets of Laredo') from time to time.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 12 Jun 2003 12:39 pm
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| Thanks, guys. Guess the BE White/Rainbow album has to go on my to-buy list. If anyone has Marshal Hall's LP who would be willing to make a copy, please e-mail me. |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2003 12:53 pm
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BJ Cole's "Transparent Music" has classical themes rearranged for pedal steel.
------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 12 Jun 2003 3:14 pm
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John Heinrich's Etude 1 for the Steel
Guitar...[Steel Guitar CD]
Buddy Emmons and Lenny Breau "On a Bach Bouree" [from the Minors Aloud LP.] are 2 of my favorite classical pieces |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 12 Jun 2003 5:47 pm
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A CD called "The Birth of George" which is an opera just came out that I play on. I've done a few transcriptions on the steel and gotten a couple
pedalsteel/composer commissions from classical arts organizations.
Chas Smith has done some great work that falls into the classical genre.
Bob |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2003 6:40 pm
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Dave,
I feel certain what you heard was BE's classic rendition of it. It is by far one of his greatest masterpieces. And indeed it was quite long.
He dazzled us at the ISGC one year by doing it on stage. There simply is no limit to this man's incredible talents.
carl |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 12 Jun 2003 9:05 pm
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Don't forget film composer Sasha Matson's concerto for pedal steel guitar and string orchestra, which he entitled "Steel Chords". The CD features our fellow forumite Earnest Bovine on steel.
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2003 2:43 am
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| Is Doug Jernigan's "Jesu" available on CD somewhere? |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 13 Jun 2003 6:26 am
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Thanks for all the tips, guys. I'm a little surprised there is not more stuff from the baroque and classical periods. That stuff lays pretty well on the E9 neck, especially a 12-string, and is much easier than the modern stuff like Mike Perlowin has done. As I've said before, the biggest challenge is not being able to read music and the sheer nonrepetive length of much classical music. For BE to work out that whole long Canon, probably by ear from a recording, is an amazing feat. Just goes to show the top pros on steel are a match for good classical musicians.
When I try to do classical music on pedal steel I get a piano version (somtimes a simplified and shortened version) and play that on the piano (not necessarily up to speed) until I have it in my head. Then I put the piano music in front of my steel and go at it. I can't actually read much of the music on steel, but it helps me remember which passage comes next and where the repeats are, etc.
But Buddy probably just listened to a record over and over. It helps that the bass line repeats constantly in a canon, but man, he got all the variations all the way through that long thing. I thought I heard some overdubbing - too many strings not moving while too many others moved under them; and I thought maybe it wasn't recorded in one piece. But if it was BE, maybe he could pull that off - and if he did it live, I guess he did! |
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2003 7:06 am
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| I've been working on a Robert Schumann thing called "Dreaming" from his "Scenes from Childhood" opus. I copped a string quartet arrangement of it on a CD compilation of lullabys that I got for my infant daughter a couple years ago.It's in F and lays out real nice on my universal altho it has a couple tricky halfstop + half-pedal moves,oddball grips and requires both feet on one passage.I've yet to be able to get thru it clam free.When I do,I plan to record it for all to hear - it's a beautiful piece. -MJ- |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 13 Jun 2003 7:14 am
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| Quote: |
| For BE to work out that whole long Canon, probably by ear from a recording |
BAD ASSUMPTION, Dave. Buddy reads music, as indicated by the fact that he used the written score (and apologized for having to don his glasses) in St. Louis for the performance Carl mentions above. He didn't cop it off a record. (but he COULDA) 
And it WAS done on an Extended E9 / E13 12-string push-pull.
And, I hate to be a 'gloomy Gus', but here goes . . .
I'll also have to question the assumption that steel players -- even the best -- have the proficiency level of the best classical or jazz players. To some extent it's the nature of the steel guitar, but comparing the musical dexterity of a concert violinist, guitarist, or particularly pianist with a steel player is more than a bit of a stretch. It's all we can do (e.g., the 'Jesu' I mentioned above) for the best of the steel players to pull off a student-level classical/baroque guitar/lute piece. I'm amazed that anyone can handle any of the multi-part, basso continuo type stuff in one pass with a steel, but it's pretty rare to find one who can. Most of the classical guitar literature (Sor, Tarrega, etc.) is WAY out of reach for a steel player, IMHO. You have to look long and hard to find a piece that lays right on steel to play moving bass and melody lines. I'd love for someone to prove me wrong, but I DON'T THINK SO.
As an example, you mentioned the Bach Bourree on the 'Minors Aloud' album. What they did with it was brilliant, but, other than the solo homage intro, it was approached more as a dreamy jazz piece. As I understand it, Lenny Breau had a classical guitar background and this piece is basically a student-level guitar or lute exercise. Now, I'm no Buddy Emmons, but I messed around with the score for six months or more and decided it was not possible FOR ME to play it note for note, at tempo. I'd be interested to know if anyone has ever pulled it off. It just exceeds the capability and flexibility of the instrument. BUT there are things that are easy to do on steel (mostly involving playing multiple notes and slowly bending one or more in various direction) that are impossible on other instruments. I feel that, rather than trying to make the steel a classical guitar, we explore avenues of the classical world that embrace this capability. This may be the direction MJ is pursuing. I admire any steel player who addresses 'art music'. It's much more difficult than Ray Price shuffles. 
Note that I limit that discussion to 'ensemble' (e.g., MOST string quartets or other group-oriented pieces performed at one pass on a steel) or pieces such as 'classical' guitar or sonata style music with multiple moving lines. The stuff that Mike Perlowin and others have done illustrates that we can certainly form steel guitar quartets and play many of the parts individually -- or multi-track the parts -- but the piano or guitar is much more suited to multiple moving lines than the steel -- pedal or otherwise -- regardless of how many strings -- is physically capable of.
All this, as usual, IMHO.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 13 June 2003 at 09:07 AM.] |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 13 Jun 2003 9:56 am
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I have to point out that I didn't actually PLAY any of the things on my CDs. I recorded everything in little snippets, and edited it all together to give the illusion of a cohesive performance.
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 13 Jun 2003 10:11 am
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Well, I'll be doggone. I vaguely remembered somewhere Buddy admitting to being able to read music, but only a little. Sounds like he got better at it.
Now about the limitations of pedal steel. It's like you say, Larry. It can do some things that other instruments can't, but it can't do things a lot of other instruments can. A major problem is that with the chord-like standard tunings you can't get a whole chromatic scale without moving the bar. Also, other instruments can play very fast runs by simply slapping the fingers down (piano, woodwinds, guitars, orchestral strings), whereas we have to pick each note (harps can do it, but they use 10 picking fingers) and maybe move the bar. That slows us down, although you can hear Paul Franklin and others playing some mighty fast runs by stringing rolls together. But still it is not possible for most pedal steelers to play a chromatic run, or scale run mixed with accidentals, at the speed written into a lot of classical works. There are other instruments that have worse limitations - think of the trombone.
The point is, we can't play all of Chopin, but neither can any horn. Yet classical composers wrote music for the pecularities of each instrument or ensemble. It' just that until now nobody ever did that for pedal steel, and we can't just jump in and use music written for other instruments. So in that sense you are right. We can adapt some adagio speed stuff by simplifying piano and ensemble pieces. But we can't get some of the allegro stuff and the ten finger chords and all the moving parts a piano can do. But there is no other instrument than can do the chord glisses and vibrato a steel can do.
In fact, there are quite a few sounds in modern music that originated with the advent of the steel guitar - things like the half-step chord gliss, or the octave gliss. So our instrument is nothing to be ashamed of.
As for players, I completely disagree. While it is true that the best classical musicians usually start in childhood. This is also true of some of the best country music guitarists and steelers, and I think some of these life-long professionals have technical skills equal to many professional classical musicians, though possibly not the few world-class classical geniuses (but after all, there is a much bigger pool producing the latter). While it's true many steelers can't read music, I have met many classical musicians who can't play diddly by ear. Have you ever watched a classical violinist try to learn bluegrass fiddle? Not a pretty sight. Reading and playing by ear are just two different art forms, each with its strengths and weaknesses.
The fact of the matter is that traditional music notation is inadequate for pedal steel. There are simply too many places to play a single note or chord. Additional notation is required and composers don't know how to do that. This is not totally unique. Piano music commonly has fingering notation next to the notes (but I don't know that composers are the ones who put that there), and organ music has pedal notation below the written music. And lots of music has guitar chords above the staff, either the letters or the little pictures. We just need some stuff like that. The ideal would be written music with tab underneath, the way some instrucional material is done (Doug Jernigan has some like this). But maybe there could be something that is more of a shorthand right in with the written music, like the piano fingering.
Okay, gotta get back to work. Very interesting discussion from everyone. [This message was edited by David Doggett on 13 June 2003 at 11:55 AM.] |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 13 Jun 2003 2:01 pm
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| Quote: |
| It's just that until now nobody ever did that for pedal steel, and we can't just jump in and use music written for other instruments. |
I beg to differ on both points. As I mentioned previously, film Composer Sasha Matson wrote a concerto for pedal steel guitar and string orchestra called Steel Chords. The concerto was recorded with our fellow forumite Doug "Earnest Bovine" Livingston playing the steel and released on the unfortunately now defunct Audioquest label.
The is the first piece of classical music specifically written for the pedal steel guitar. Hopefully there will be others.
And although I "cheated" by recording my CD's in snippets, both Marshall Hall and B.J. Cole played the pieces live. Hall's adaption of Chopin's Nocturns is IMHO one of the lovliest things ever recorded on a pedal steel guitar, and Cole's interpretation of works by Debussy, Ravel and Satie are great examples of how music written for other instruments can be played on the steel. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 13 Jun 2003 2:33 pm
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We agree, Mike. By nothing written for us "until now" I meant until the recent stuff mentioned above in this thread.
And by "can't just jump in and use music written for other instruments" I meant without some adaptation as was done in the instances you mention. You can't expect to be able to sight-read everything, it frequently requires some adaptation. This is not uncommon, classical music has frequently been adapted from one instrument to another in the past. We just have to do the same thing.
I was responding to Larry's overly negative comments about being able to play classical music on pedal steel (untypically negative for him). I think it's the glass half-full or half-empty kind of thing. He was complaining that some classical music seems unplayable on pedal steel, even with adaptation. I agree with that, but at the same time there is lots that could be adapted to steel, AND there is an altogether unknown amount of classical music that could be written for steel that no other instrument could play - just like a clarinet cannot play Chopin (except for a melody line). |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 13 Jun 2003 2:44 pm
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Here's a thought I had (probably others have thought about something similar). What about laying a pedal steel tuning out like a piano keyboard. Let the strings be the white keys in the key of C and let the pedals and knees give you the black notes. You would need 14 strings to give you the 8 notes of the scale plus down to say G on the bottom and up to F on the top, for 2 octaves centered on the C scale. You would need 10 pedals and knees to get all the black notes.
Is that anything like b0b's diatonic tuning? I haven't looked at it for awhile. I guess the problem is that you gain a complete 2 octave chromatic scale at any fret, but you lose the pedaled chord glisses that are the heart of the pedal steel sound. Oh well, just a thought. |
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Peter Siegel
From:
Belmont, CA, USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2003 2:59 pm
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Mike P. Thanks for beating me to the punch with your recommendation of Sasha Matson's "Steel Chords" cd. I've known him all my life, done a lot of recording with him, and recommend the CD highly (despite that fact). "Ernest" plays great on it.
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2003 3:18 pm
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| One of the few things that I remember about the Sasha Matson recordings is that I met with him once while he was working on the 2nd piece we did, and I tried (unsuccessfully) to encourage him to be more adventurous with the steel parts. To wit, it would be nice to hear a pedal bend a note in a chord once in a while. After all, that is what makes our instrument so special. |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2003 4:12 pm
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Larry Bell,
All I can say to your entire post is
BRAVO!!
Well said friend. I will just add this one small piece. IMO, if BE had studied music in depth (say at a school like Juliard), and still played the steel guitar, he would truly be unmatched by most "finished" Musicians.
In a word, he would have achieved something NO one ever has. His incredible musical talent including his ear, heart and hands coupled with in depth musical training would have insured him a place along side the greatest of the great virtuosos, in my opinion. And the most awesome part is it would have included our beloved instrument in a way that has never been done.
The ironic thing is; he came dang close without the training. Simply an incredible feat by the world's greatest steel guitar player. His recording of Canon in D by Pachelbel should be among everyone's favorites; IF you aspire to classical music at all.
May God richly bless this man and all of you always,
carl |
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