Pedal Steel on the Rock Block

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 9 Apr 2003 11:30 am

I've never heard Robert Randolph, so I can't say what he is worth. I love country music,but like it when some steel player tries to branch out,tries something new. If the new players keep at it they will get better.Joe

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 9 Apr 2003 12:18 pm

When the roadies brought RR's guitar onstage, THE GUITAR got a hand! Only other time I heard of this, was when Jimmy Page's twin-neck Gibson ES-1275 was brought out, to play "Stairway to Heaven." And when he broke
a string, they had ANOTHER guitar ready! This is the kind of stuff the kids wanna see, I guess. Admittedly, I didn't stay for the whole show, since my date got sick, and the whole thing was so loud, but Randolph IS a player, and he IS a showman.
But, even though I hollered 7 or 8 times, he NEVER played "Way to Survive."

Don Walters · Post by **Don Walters** » 9 Apr 2003 12:23 pm

he's up to pedal number two on his steel

Imagine how good he'll be when he gets to three!

[This message was edited by Don Walters on 09 April 2003 at 01:24 PM.]

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 9 Apr 2003 1:07 pm

I remember hearing the same thing about Junior Brown - he wants too much money to play Scotty's. Now in Juniors case I think he would positively slay the St Louis crowd. Robert I'm not so sure - still,you'd think that these superstar types would be honored to make an exception and play Scottys for free if necessary.I was in St Louis in 1984 when rather than lose Ralph Mooney for the weekend,Waylon chose to jump on the bus,pack his whole band onstage at Scottys,perform his regular show and brought the house down.I don't know how much(if anything)Waylon got paid but it couldn't have been anywhere near what he was getting for a concert in those days.Then of course,there's the possibility that Robert Randolph is way more comfortable playing for a crowd that has no idea whether or not he's up to pedal number 2 than he would be under the scrutiny of 5000 steel players at Scottys.There's also the possibility that he hasn't been asked - probably only his management/booking agent has been asked..... -MJ-

seldomfed · Post by **seldomfed** » 9 Apr 2003 2:17 pm

re: $10k for Scotty's. thoughts.....?

Robert's a hot item. Sounds like asking $10k is good business to me. (good music business). He's got a band to pay. Would you ask your band to shlep their stuff to St. Louis for less than $2,500 apiece, for a 45min. set, if you can get opening act gigs for Dave Mathews Band, have Warner Bros. do your next album, and headline across the country? Have you seen how many gigs he's playing? Hats off to Scotty for at least asking him! That's a huge risk to the ISGC event given the feedback he'd likely get from the normal crowd. We all know "it's too loud at Scotty's"

I have a Yamaha guitar ad from a long time ago on my wall that says... "Never change, never grow, never adapt - and die naked, cold and alone". Harsh perhaps, but it helps me at times. Trees bend in the wind for a reason, dinosaurs are in museums and Elvis is really dead. Hard hearts, and inflexibility are what life insurance companies count on you guys. Open your minds and hearts to new things. I know I can always learn something new from everyone.

btw, Rock and Roll is the devil's music and it will never catch on.

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Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"There is no spoon"
www.book-em-danno.com

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 9 Apr 2003 2:35 pm

I remember Joe Goldmark and Joe Campilongo closing out Scotty's Friday night session a couple of years ago. I tell you what: there were plenty of eyeballs rolling in the back of folks' heads when they played Harlem Nocturn, but they absolutely FLOORED me! Can't please everybody. Whatdya going do?

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 9 Apr 2003 3:26 pm

Mike J said:" Honored to make an Exception"
Money ain't everything, Right Erv ?
Since the Lord works in such unpredictable ways ya'never know Robert or Junior just might make it over to St Lou after all:just for Xpenses

that'll be a great day in the mornin'

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Steel what?

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 9 Apr 2003 3:37 pm

Jim,the question here is not if RR is good or not,some will like him and some not,the talk was about him asking 10K for 45 min.show from Scotty.What has steel guitar community gived to RR?What do we need to give him?10K I guess.For $10 I go down town to Third and Lindsey`s and enjoy the best,from 9pm-1am, not just 45 min.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 9 Apr 2003 3:45 pm

I would also take all the $10k gigs I could find but sometimes there are gigs you do for less - or free - because they are worthwile.I think as a steel player,you are being honored and accepted into the inner sanctum of very accomplished players by being asked to play at Scottys.You think Sting demanded $10k to perform w/the Police at their induction into the R&R Hall of Fame? And if you're so in the chips,you pay the band out of your own pocket if they don't get it - it's the thing to do. And I've been in enough up-and-coming bands to know damn well RR is still playing his share of freebies and lo-ball gigs even now - if it's deemed good for his career.You can open for Dave Matthews for 10 grand some other night.BTW,has anyone else figured out that Dave Matthews is not very good? What's up with that? -MJ-

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 9 Apr 2003 4:20 pm

I've been in enough up-and-coming bands to know damn well RR is still playing his share of freebies and lo-ball gigs even now - if it's deemed good for his career.

That's probably true, Michael. Of course, it's probably also true that playing steel guitar conventions would not be "good" for RR's career; it would probably be completely irrelevant to his career, so I guess what he's saying is that the only reason it would make any sense for him to do it is for the money... frankly, I'd be hard-pressed to come up with another reason for him to do it... he doesn't "owe" us anything, and he doesn't need to "prove" anything to us. He has a wonderful, burgeoning career going on right now, that's completely independent of the rest of us (except for the steel manufacturers), so more power to him.

(By the way, I also suspect that he has no idea what anyone does or does not get paid at the ISGC, so is clueless about the relative size of his (or, more likely, his manager's) request. I'm sure he's never been to a steel convention (other than sacred steel, perhaps). All this just underscores how he is born of, and travels in, completely different circles. And that's what makes him so unique.)[This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 09 April 2003 at 05:23 PM.]

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 9 Apr 2003 7:15 pm

...he didn't get ten grand when he did Letterman...

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 9 Apr 2003 7:19 pm

Sure, but that was good for his career. Makes the point splendidly.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 9 Apr 2003 7:57 pm

Randolph doesn`t have a clue about the steel guitar comunity

Ours, maybe not, certainly, he does his. I'm sure he doesn't get 10k to play in church or the Sacred Steel Convention. He gives back to his community, and promotes the steel guitar for our community just by his existance.

he's half the talent of most steel players playing there. I think he's up to pedal number two on his steel.

Maybe that's why he may not be so keen to play in St. Louis. Not much "community" support. Anyhow, anything other than the bottom line is meaningless, and the bottom line is, he's a huge success.

but most importantly....

the screaming throng of thousands of young people, young women gyrating on stage,

that's thong, Jim...

[This message was edited by HowardR on 10 April 2003 at 11:39 AM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 9 Apr 2003 8:54 pm

All I know is that I musth be thinging the wrong thong!

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 10 Apr 2003 6:48 am

More power to him. I am all for variety! Personally, I get more into the jazz things that the pros play at a show, while still having GREAT respect for those old country ballads and shuffles.

As for the "what has the steel community done for me lately" comment: what has it done for anyone? We are just a bunch of musicians, most of us are weekend warriors, we buy steel recordings, accessories, instruction courses, go to steel shows, if someone wants a handout for being different, look to the government, that is not our role and really should not be the government's either when it comes to the able bodied.

I cannot imagine someone saying, "Buddy (or the other top pros) will not perform at a steel show because the steel community has not done enough for him!" Give me a break!!!

Jim Cohen: I appreciate your comments and probably agree with most of it, but I have to ask you: How come you try to play like the top pros as the rest of us and do not get out and start your own style like Robert? I mean, if you really believe in it and are so passionate about it???

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Frank Estes - 1978 Emmons D-10 8+7 #2441D

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 10 Apr 2003 7:57 am

Frank- Jim Cohen does have his own style.

Have you heard him play "Deep in a Dream of you" and "Our day will come" on his CD "Finally Here"?

Give a listen. You don't hear that kind of stuff on C6 every day.....al

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 10 Apr 2003 8:00 am

Jim Cohen seems to have hit the nail on the head.
I imagine that Randolph's most likely unaware of the main steel convention, he's doe the sacred steel, thing.. clubs and pretty much got a good vibe and record deal going.
And these are rock clubs, where there's a totally different attitude to the folks who actually play instruments as compared to the ones who back up singers (pop or country) and are shunted in the background.

He does travel in different circles, he does tour the world after all, and lets face it.. who else at a Steel Convention have you seen on Letterman as a featured act?.
I have no idea of what a gig pays on Letterman, but you can't buy that sort of exposure, besides the US it actually broadcasts all over the Western World.

Actually, it's quite likely that if RR played a steel convention that a lot of rock fans might find their way to the convention, and it could get a bit messy!

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 10 Apr 2003 8:07 am

Robert has a site with some free live downloads of him and his band playing long jam tunes. I don't know if this is his angle on steel, but I was amazed at how boring he sounded. I have played guitar for many years and all I heard from Robert was a steel player who had got real good at playing single string guitar lines on steel? I'm drawn to steel because there are things it can do that I can't come close to on guitar. I didn't hear anything from Robert and his band that I could say would become a classic someday, he sure didn't play anything I haven't already heard guitar players do.[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 10 April 2003 at 09:11 AM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 10 Apr 2003 8:27 am

....(Jason)....I have no idea of what a gig pays on Letterman....

A show-business publication article about Johnny Carson's Tonight Show said that ALL guests received "union scale" which was about $360.00 at the time!....the theory being that guests were promoting their career and the exposure was enough compensation!

I would assume that LENO and LETTERMAN have the same policy....
www.genejones.com

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 10 Apr 2003 9:20 am

There is usually a fair sized sales jump the next day/week when an artist appears on Letterman especially. It's easy to track that via Soundscan these days...

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 10 Apr 2003 9:26 am

I was wondering if piano players or devotees got into something like this when Jerry Lee Lewis jumped up; knocked over the bench and finished up by walking on the keys during his heyday.........

I don't think so !!

They knew the difference and never paid it any heed whatsoever. I think that is where I'm at. If SG must expand into other fields to survive and this is that in progress, then we have already lost ourselves. Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's........and I didn't hear anything that would turn my head in the least,

Regards, Paul

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 10 Apr 2003 9:30 am

It is a whole nother style alright, and a whole nother audience so far.

Being fed for many years off the Movie "Urban Cowboy" I'm more than willing to accept going to gigs and have some young kids, "black, white, or purple" with matching hair come up and say "Damn! Cool! That's one of those things that Robert Randolph Plays!."

I know a lot of trumpet players were on Herb Alperts meal ticket for a long time, then Chuck Mangione.

Then there's the Saxophone.....

"At night, all gift horses are gray".

EJL

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 10 Apr 2003 5:23 pm

Jim Cohen: I appreciate your comments and probably agree with most of it, but I have to ask you: How come you try to play like the top pros as the rest of us and do not get out and start your own style like Robert? I mean, if you really believe in it and are so passionate about it???

Frank, that's an easy question. I play what I play because that's the music I like. And I'm passionate about me playing the music I like. So... I'm also passionate about Robert being able to play the music he likes. Heck, I'd even be passionate about you playing the music you like! It's all very consistent, you see...

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 10 Apr 2003 6:28 pm

I,m starting to think that many forum steel players think-- You need to have a steel to keep it country and if you play a steel guitar you better play country,or a lot of big chords on your C6th. tuning. If not you are not much of a steel player. Maybe there are many good steel players that can do it but make there living playing what they do. Joe

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 10 Apr 2003 9:33 pm

The bottom line is that the steel is NOT a country instrument. It is a MUSICAL instrument, capable of playing many different kinds of music, and more and more players are discovering this and stretching the boundaries of where it can go and what it can do.

Just listen to the recordings of Chas Smith, or Susan Alcorn, or Robert Powell, or Joe Goldmark, or Bruce Kaphan, or Gary Brandin, or B.J. Cole, or Demola Adepoju (the steel player for King Sunny Ade) or me, and you'll see that the steel has tremendous potential that is only now starting to be reached.

And every player that takes the steel into new territory is introducing it to a new audience of people who do not listen to country.

Randolph is doing more to expose our instrument to new people than all the rest of us combined. I see this as a good thing.

To those who say, "If it ain't country it ain't music" I say why limit yourself? There's nothing wrong with country, but it's NOT the only kind of music in the world, and it's definitely not the only kind of music that can be played on a steel guitar.