When you pay big bucks, do you want a show?

Post by **Joey Ace** » 3 Mar 2003 3:23 pm

I always believed the band should dress better than the Audience.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 3 Mar 2003 3:36 pm

Joey,
What year was that?
Very cool!

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 3 Mar 2003 4:42 pm

I play in sneakers because it feels better to me.I play dressed casualy because it feel better to me.I play,I don`t model the jackets or boots,I play music and that`s what I do, like many other guys down town Nashville.I have a day job so I can go and buy nice sneakers and shirts but many of those guys who play down town can`t do that.They play for tips,for few bucks.They have to pay for drink,parking and everything else,they don`t have a Porter Wagonner jackets but they sure have some musical talent,and THAT is why I go and watch the bands,because I want to hear some good music,if I wanted to see some fancy clothes I would go to the fashion show.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 3 Mar 2003 4:50 pm

How true! Several have touched on the reason for the slovenly dress code, of late. Young people like to rebel, they think it's "cool". It's the same "anti-establishment" deal we went through in the '70s. Many stars today are trying to get big dollars out of that young crowd, so it wouldn't be wise for them to to alienate them by dressing like their mother and father used to dress!

Personally, I feel that the higher up you are in the eyes of people, the better you should dress. You should try to set a good example. Most famous people (even corporate execs like Bill Gates) shun these ideals, though, and go to the board room attired no better than they are while at a ball game or playing golf. Movie stars, famous singers, heck, nobody expects them to dress well anynore. It's sad. It's a sign of rebellion, laziness, poor taste, whatever. Those few with class will continue to clutch to the dignity of yesteryear. The majority today (who have no class) will continue to do as they damn well please.

I remember when I first heard Mary Chapin Carpenter, I thought to myself..."That sounds like a classy lady". Then, the first time I saw her at a concert, as well as everytime after that when I saw her on TV, she looked like a sleaze.

Nice voice...crappy appearance.

That description fits a lot of "big names" today.

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 3 Mar 2003 9:03 pm

Went to the Opry in 1955. Reserved seats were .75 and general admission was .35. It started at 7:00 and ended at 12:00. You could stay and watch it all...which few people did and by 10:30 you had real good seats and we stayed and watched it all.

Bob

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 3 Mar 2003 9:05 pm

Hi Doyle, Thanks for the kind words. Hope to see you in Dallas or Tulsa for sure. Jody.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 3 Mar 2003 9:22 pm

This is NOT going to win me any bouquets. But I am too old to worry about it. And here are my thoughts.

I believe that one of the most creative, uniquely talented singers is a disgrace to the entire music profession. That of course is Willy Nelson. I would not walk across the street to see him. Because IMO, he goes OUT of his way to show his contempt for everything decent, moral and proper.

There is a place for everything. But a stage is NO place for the utter disraceful attire he comes with. He should cut off that stupid tail piece of hair hanging down the back of his neck: throw away Aunt Jemima's bandana; purchase a brand new pair of western boots' dress like a million dollars and learn to shave again; brush his teeth and finally take a bath and wash his hair then comb it.

IF he did, his demeanor would parallel his God given talents. NOT the contradictory demeanor he is ever since the age of rebellion and horrible manor of displaying it set in. He should be ashamed of himself.

But worse YET, are those that pay him to perform ANY where. It is this garbage that is leading this country in the wrong direction. And the sooner we ALL realize that rebellion is NOT right and show our disgust for such trash, the sooner this country will get back to what made it the most blessed nation on earth.

If we don't, we are NOT going to be the most blessed. And this applies to all the rest that has been spoken of (as painful AND truthful as it is) in this thread.

God help us all,

carl

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 3 Mar 2003 9:37 pm

Carl, I was with you up until the bath.

nick allen · Post by **nick allen** » 4 Mar 2003 12:29 am

Carl -
With all due respect... I don't understand why you say "he goes OUT of his way to show his contempt for everything decent, moral and proper". Provided a person is WEARING clothes

, I really can't see where decency and morality are affected by the *style* of clothing. And as far as your comments about teeth-cleaning, bathing, etc... I have never been *that* close to Willie (don't know if you have?) but I've seen him on stage and on TV, and have never noticed that he *looked* dirty. He usually has a beard - so did Buddy Emmons (just for one example

) for many years. Willie's hair is a lot shorter than Crystal Gayle's is (or used to be)... was she REALLY REALLY dirty?!
You can say you don't like the way Willie looks (I guess that's a fair assumption?

)... but to extend that to your comments about cleanliness and morality is beyond the bounds of logic. I would also point out that I could quote any number of short-haired, suit-and-tie wearing people whose "decency" and "morality" are far more questionable than Willie Nelson's...
Nick
PS. "rebellion is NOT right"... Hey, you guys rebelled against us (the English) two hundred plus years ago... if it's not right... GIVE IT BACK!

PPS. I'm still glad to see you back posting on here, Carl.

Melinda Dauley · Post by **Melinda Dauley** » 4 Mar 2003 12:29 am

<The majority today (who have no class) will continue to do as they damn well please.>
Geez, and I thought I was the only one.
There are a few country bands in my area, one of them being "The Swains". They have a really good act, AND, they dress nice.
It's a good thing.
Most of the rockabilly/country and even psychobilly bands in my area dress up for performance. So do most of the audience members.
These are good things.
I still like Willie. Some people I just don't hold to the same standards. I think when you become a legend, you can do whatever the hell you want.
Although, I sure would like it if he dressed like Hank Williams.
Melinda

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Just remember: Bi-valves can't play steel. And if they ask, just say no.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 4 Mar 2003 1:19 am

I've seen Willie without a beard, and I've seen him with a beard.

He looks better WITH the beard, and that was also the opinion of Willie's mom (actually his step-mother). In 1973 she told me so herself!

One more thing about WN... he pays his musicians better than any act I've heard of, short of Elvis. And few performers give more onstage than he.

He also doesn't walk on water, but last I've heard, none of us do, either.

Ernest: ROTFLMAO!

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 Mar 2003 1:48 am

Just because you're talented, famous, or generous, is no excuse to look like a bum.

The first...and last impression most people get of you is your appearance. Of course, there are any number of famous people that do't care what we think.

They still want our money, though, don't they?

Post by **Joey Ace** » 4 Mar 2003 5:26 am

Bill Clinton is a sharp dresser, Carl. So is Sadam. Jim Jones always looked sharp.

I like Willie (Nelson, that is) just like he is. He always appeared clean to me. Most important his music has integrity.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 4 Mar 2003 10:00 am

I don`t think I need an excuse to dress the way I want to.So does Willie.I buy my stuff for my money that I earned, so why would I ask anybody how to dress?If someone doesnt like it,there is planty more other showes in town.Bruce bouton plays in jeans.Paul Franklin plays in Hawaian shirt and we all know what a great players they are.As far as Willie goes,I don`t think that anyone on this forum is on his level and have a right to critisize a great songwriter and artist like Willie.I would work for him in a heart beat even for free.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 4 Mar 2003 11:10 am

Herb,
I'm ROTFLOL with Earnest's comment too!

Post by **Joey Ace** » 4 Mar 2003 11:35 am

Theresa,
Sorry I don't have a year. I'd guess 1966.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 4 Mar 2003 11:40 am

Joey,
That was when my younger brother was born. Very cool! Thanks, Theresa

Jack Francis · Post by **Jack Francis** » 4 Mar 2003 12:24 pm

Elvis paid his musicians?
I saw an interview with Scotty Moore. who was there from the git-go with Elvis, (even was the mgr. until his contract with the Col.)
He said that all told he made $30,000 playing for and traveling with Elvis.
(When he was in a movie with him he even had to make his own outfit.)
Maybe the later guys were paid well but the most important musician at the start of his career sure didn't do well.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 4 Mar 2003 1:54 pm

Anyone out there care to see what I look like?

Joe.

Melinda Dauley · Post by **Melinda Dauley** » 4 Mar 2003 1:59 pm

I know in 1957 what my grandfather made as the breadwinner in his house. Compared to him 30,000 dollars was a lot of money. Right?
Melinda

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 4 Mar 2003 4:20 pm

I think what matters most is what is reflected in a persons heart. Anybody can put on a uniform to hide whats on the inside. Carl, I have learned alot from you, but you talking about WN like that shocks me. Seems to me Jesus had long hair and was unshaven. If you put on the fancy cowboy outfits and go play a rough biker bar, you might get treated like a homo?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 Mar 2003 4:34 pm

Seems to me Jesus had long hair and was unshaven.

Yeah, and you see what they did to him, don't 'cha?

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 4 Mar 2003 6:01 pm

Inre: Rough Biker Bar.

I think that if you went and played one and dressed up like a rough biker instead of what you "are" you'd get a lot worse treatment. In fact I know it.

I think the original point was raised out of dismay of a "lack of identity" that's been/being experienced by a lot of people who were "brought up" in one world, where Country Music Artists were indeed superb showmen/women. It was a time of flowering, to be sure.

Being 49 years old, I have perhaps lived in both worlds, and I must say with wages deteriorating to a $10 per hour state, and it being ridiculous to ask $3000 a month and health benefits/unemployment/Social security to be a sideman in a top name show doesn't encourage me. Not when a guy or girl can make that much shovelling asphalt without 20 years of experience.

Yes indeed, I would rather see the Willie Nelson on the Panther Hall Album Cover, or the Donny Young of old equally as "dressed to the Ts". He used to, you know..

I suppose the "rebellion factor" is always going to be a part of music. Willie, Waylon, and the "Outlaw" movement were really protesting the "blackballing" of people that was/is well known to be done by the Puritanical Nashville Elite. I think you could ask Ray Price about that one.

As far as "Showmanship" goes, of course Pavarotti or Mr Emmons, or Paul Franklin could show up wearing whatever they want, or probably "ragged up" a little if they wanted to. I don't think it would hurt their "fan base". I haven't noticed them doing that, save a few occaisons. Quite the contrary.

OTOH, It never hurts to try and refine a persons "show" by projecting a certain appearance. This indeed can be done by wearing custom, stone washed, buckshotted levis, Beer T shirts, or what have you. This type of appearance is often as "phony" or "staged" than the opposite.

I tend to dress a little more neatly when playing than I usualy do. It covers up a lot of crappy worn out licks to have spit shined cowboy boots. It also puts people you have discourse with at a subconcious disadvantage. They notice your boots and without thinking, lower their eyes, giving you a tactical advantage in conversation.

I don't "really" think that Dwight Yokum's Fast as You video was ruined by holy jeans. It just won't live in my mind like watching Hank Snow and the Rainbow Ranch Boys lit up like beings from another planet, playing 'Movin on' did for 40 years in what's left of mine.

There's a lot to be said for "dressing like a warrior", and trying one's best to make one's appearance a supportive part of "a show".

I think there's less to be said by "coming as you are", and playing so well that people might overlook your lack of concern for your appearance.

Few of us play that well locally, (except maybe Larry Behm, and he ALWAYS dresses impeccably, ADDING to the effect ,Harley James, who found the worlds best rummage sale, and Doug Jones, that was sporting a $300 Stetson last nite, and played REALLY WELL..) I know I sure don't.

I just went out last month and bought a whole new wardrobe for $400 to keep from getting canned. We'll see if it works..

Mister Rogers could have worn tie dies, bike chains and beatle boots, and I still would have watched him. Captain Kangaroo though, without his outfit would have lost me right off the bat..

Go Figure...[This message was edited by Eric West on 04 March 2003 at 07:47 PM.]

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 4 Mar 2003 6:29 pm

If you sound good and are being entertaining, thats all that counts in the end. Alan Jackson and Willie Nelson seem like people who are very honest and good natured. I have been at both ends of the game before and all I need is a cowboy hat and maybe my steel toed boots. I like the glamore of yesteryear, but times have changed and will always be changing. I guess if your playing a big show, it doesn't hurt to clean up. Like Eric said, theres something to be said about being yourself.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 4 Mar 2003 8:35 pm

Thanks everyone for sharing your views. I truly appreciate it.
I would not, at this point in time, urge anyone to go get a full blown Sequined outfit however, I see nothing too expensive or too uncomfortable.........in seeing a band with some clean blue jeans, white shirts (or matching colored shirts),and maybe a vest or whatever.
My comments were intended to ascertain, if possible, if the downturn in western music crowds (I don't feel a packed house of 40-50 patrons, is a sell out crowd!) was possibly due to the musicians who choose to come in under the lights, looking grungy, unclean, sloppy or whatever. Might that kind of attitude (I wanna do what I wanna do and it's nobody else's business!); or, the sloppy appearances..........be degrading our musician's pay scale?
I've never wanted to go up and shake a person's hand if he/she looked a little on the crummy side, nor would I want to stand and engage in conversation if the person's bad breath could be smelled from across the room
When I started, some fellows believed that they had to drink heavily in order to play country music. The only one's in the building that felt they were playing better were the drunks themselves! Everyone else was grinding their teeth.
I believe we steel guitar players owe our public "a good appearance"........ A lot of concern is discussed on this Forum about a decline in NEW Steel Guitar STARTS by younger people. Could one's shabby appearance be a factor behind it?