Broken Bakelite Neck Repair?

Howard Clark · Post by **Howard Clark** » 2 May 2005 5:07 am

Can anyone tell me if a Bakelite Rickenbacher neck can be repaired and how much it would cost?

After meeting Gerald Ross and lurking here, I bought a postwar Bakelite Rick on Ebay, but it arrived with a broken neck. UPS will either (1) pay me the insurance ($800) and keep the Rick or (2) pay me to have it repaired. I would rather keep it but to do so I have to give them a cost estimate. My guess is that a repair would cost nearly as much as the insured value, but I have no way to support that guess.

Thanks,

Howie Clark

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 2 May 2005 5:56 am

Contact Rick Aiello about this. He is the one who told me you never want to ship a Bakelite Rick, for that very reason. When I bought mine, I picked it up in person.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 2 May 2005 6:05 am

My guess is that a repair would cost nearly as much as the insured value

Well, now it will....

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 2 May 2005 6:24 am

As I recall, RAY MONTEE had a bad experience with broken bakelite when a guitar he ordered was damaged...perhaps he might have the solution also ?

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 2 May 2005 6:55 am

Bowling ball repairman.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 2 May 2005 7:30 am

Forum member Bill Creller is the "man for the job".

He snapped his neck ... and ended up drilling holes, placing in reinforcing dowel rods and then using West System epoxy.

The epoxy alone wouldn't hold ... and its good stuff.

But he may have alot of projects ... and I believe he's still in Hawaii.

Ray got help from Wayne Tanner (who fixed Jerry Byrd's famous Bakelite) ...

I believe it was a certain product made for gun-smithing ... Give him a holler.

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Aiello's House of Gauss


My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 2 May 2005 8:30 am

Hi Howie,

Good to see you posting, bad to hear your tale of woe.

You said:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
After meeting Gerald Ross and lurking here, I bought a postwar Bakelite Rick on Ebay, but it arrived with a broken neck. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd like to clarify a bit here.

That should be two sentences, two separate thoughts.

I met you last January when you came to Ann Arbor for the Ukefest. We jammed on Hawaiian tunes until 1 AM. It was a fun time and we've corresponded about steel guitars since.

Sometime later you bought a Bakelite Rick on Ebay. It arrived broken.

I did not sell you that guitar. I'm innocent

Bill Creller is the guy to talk to. And I do think he is still in Hawaii. I spoke with him about 3 weeks ago and he said that he was going to Kauaii for a while after the HSGA convention.

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

Derrick Mau · Post by **Derrick Mau** » 2 May 2005 9:43 am

Howard,
I would collect the insurance and get another on E-Bay. It's just a matter of waiting. Bakelites always pop up from time to time.

It also pays to have the seller to write on the box: FRAGILE, DO NOT DROP

UPS are famous for throwing things; and when things are damaged, they will do an investigation and try to blame the seller that it wasn't packed properly.

PayPal has a consumer protection plan which covers the buyer for up to $1,000. When my Vox Amp broke during shipping, they even re-imbursed me for the shipping and handling charges.

Alan Kirk · Post by **Alan Kirk** » 2 May 2005 10:23 am

You have to tell the shipper to put bubble wrap INSIDE the guitar case to make sure there is absolutely no wiggle room in there, especially for the neck. Necks get broken from flopping around INSIDE the case.

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Richard Couch · Post by **Richard Couch** » 2 May 2005 10:51 am

Was this for a 6, 7 or 8 string neck?

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 2 May 2005 11:26 am

As nice as it might be to pocket the cash from UPS...
whenever they FINALLY stand and deliver.
And the have more stalls than Santa Anita's stables....

What will happen to this Rick in their hands.. a dumpster,
some hack with a hot glue gun..
who knows?

At least here it can be brought back to life, albiet with a lower resale value later.
But a playable instrument now in all likelyhood.

Just a thought.

PS. Gerald I NEVER thought you sold him this badly packaged steel.
But then I've played with you, and KNOW you know better...[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 02 May 2005 at 12:27 PM.]

Howard Clark · Post by **Howard Clark** » 2 May 2005 12:57 pm

My apologies to Gerald Ross! I miss-spoke badly in my attempt to be brief!

I DID NOT BUY THE BROKEN NECKED RICKENBACHER FROM GERALD ROSS!

I was very impressed with Gerald's pre-war Rick when we jammed in January. I am a newby acoustic slide player, but we had a lot of fun and I decided then and there that I had to get a lap steel. Gerald suggested that a post-war Rick was a good buy for someone like me. After studying lap steels, lurking on this Forum, watching them on Ebay, and listening to everything I could, I decided he was right. He has been a great help to me in learning to play slide. He also suggested that I ask the Forum for help on this. I am very sorry that I didn't carefully proof read my badly worded message.

Howie

Howard Clark · Post by **Howard Clark** » 2 May 2005 1:09 pm

Here are two photos of the busted Bakelite Rickenbacher

In the first photo arrows point to the broken case and the neck, broken off right at the body.

For the second photo, I removed the screws that held the neck stub to the body to show both sides of the break.

Thanks to everyone for your advice on this, and my apologies once more to Gerald Ross for making it sound like he sold the instrument ot me.

Howie[This message was edited by Howard Clark on 02 May 2005 at 02:51 PM.]

Ian McLatchie · Post by **Ian McLatchie** » 2 May 2005 1:25 pm

"The epoxy alone wouldn't hold ... and its good stuff."

I'm not sure if it was the West System epoxy you refer to, Rick, but I know my friend Joe Yanuziello repaired a broken Rickenbacher neck using only a glue recommended by the folks at Brunswick (the bowling ball manufacturer), and apparently it worked perfectly. Contacting a bowling ball repair person sounds like a pretty good suggestion.

Ian McLatchie · Post by **Ian McLatchie** » 2 May 2005 1:28 pm

"The epoxy alone wouldn't hold ... and its good stuff."

I'm not sure if it was the West System epoxy you refer to, Rick, but I know my friend Joe Yanuziello repaired a broken Rickenbacher neck using only a glue recommended by the folks at Brunswick (the bowling ball manufacturer), and apparently it worked perfectly. Contacting a bowling ball repair person sounds like a pretty good suggestion.

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 2 May 2005 1:49 pm

Take the $800.oo UPS is offering you. Even if you'd repair it, you will probably never fully be happy with the guitar and it won't have any value either or at least never be worth $800.oo.

Sorry... J-D.
[This message was edited by J D Sauser on 02 May 2005 at 02:50 PM.]

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 2 May 2005 2:31 pm

Take the money, but try and get them to let you take the good parts, and pay them something. They will probably let you have the pickup and wiring for a small sum off their settlement, and you can save some important parts from the dumpster. I'd hate to see that pickup disappear, they go for good funds and sound wonderful.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 2 May 2005 2:31 pm

I was just tellin' y'all what Bill C. told me on the phone.

He had used West Systems epoxy ... it seemed to hold ... and then he strung it up and it snapped.

I think I'm with the ... take the insurance money and run camp ...

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Aiello's House of Gauss


My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 2 May 2005 3:19 pm

That is a CLEAN BREAK and should be an easy fix. I have one of the best sounding Ricks around and got it for FREE and the seller shipper got the insurance payment. It was the same identical break shown in your photo's.
I'd offer them a small sum for the "Salvage"; make the repair; have a great guitar; keep it for life; and don't worry about resale value. Don't look too anxious to get ahold of the salvage; express doubt that there is much there but being a guitar freak, you're simply curious if any of the salvage could be saved or whatever. Say little and know a lot.
Wayne Tanner's repair formula and my unskilled labor saved a Ric. Wouldn't trade it for anything. In fact, I used it on the Hawaiian CD that won first place in the April 2004 Hawaiian Music Awards. It can be heard on the Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association site and also on Aloha Joe's radio show.
Good Luck to you on your decision.

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 2 May 2005 3:37 pm

You are now officially a member of the Steel Guitar Forum Howie. You pressed "Post New Topic" without proofing your words.

Happens to us all.

Welcome to the club!

See you in the Fall.

p.s. you made one more mistake... you wrote
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
I was very impressed with Gerald's pre-war Rick when we jammed in January. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You were supposed to write:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
I was very impressed with Gerald's full command of the instrument when I sat in his presence that cold January night. Eventhough the temperature outside was below zero, the music that Gerald elicited from that steel guitar evoked sweet memories of distant tropic isles, the heavy enveloping scent of Plumeria and an aching longing dream come true... Honestly though, he could use some work on his vibrato.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 03 May 2005 at 08:14 AM.]

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 2 May 2005 4:24 pm

Yikes, Gerald.

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Sierra S8, Polytone Mini-Brute IV, Gibson GA30RVT, Teese RMC2 Wah, pyrex and bakelite bars

Howard Clark · Post by **Howard Clark** » 3 May 2005 8:19 am

Gerald,

That was exactly what I was going to say, but I couldn't remember how to spell "Plumeria" (or what it is, for that matter).

Howie

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 5 May 2005 5:24 pm

That break in the neck sure looks familiar. I would go with the Wayne Tanner fix if you can buy the broke guitar from the insurance co. I wasn't aware of a better fix when I did mine, although I could use it for a pry bar now, with the neck re-inforced.
ALOHA FROM OAHU (Derrick Mau's place)
BILL CRELLER

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 29 May 2005 6:10 pm

ATTENTION: "Now HEAR THIS!"
Texas Gentleman Wayne Tanner has communicated with me about this conversation and asked me to please post it on his behalf.
As some of you may know, Jerry Byrd and Wayne had a close relationship for many years and some years ago, Jerry specifically requested Wayne to refurbish Jerry's Rick that is now ensconsed in the Country Music Hall of Fame, Nashville. It had been discovered that the guitar had been badly abused while on display there so Wayne accepted the challenge.
Now, this was in addition to a repair that Wayne had made on his own Bakelite Rick and wherein Wayne discovered "The Magic" of his repair forumla....AcraGlass. Another repair by Gentleman Wayne........for Tom Brumley, finds "that guitar" is still being played to this day in perfect pitch.

According to Wayne:
"There is absolutely no need to drill any holes in the damaged Rick".
"It will hold if they put a very thin coat all the way acros the flat surface".
"If they were to put a thick coat on
it, they can sand an equal amount of Bakelite off before putting the Acraglass on it. It does not need to be thick, however, if they put much on without removing that same amount of Bakelite, the guitar will not play true. They would have to make bar position corrections in order to achieve accuracy in pitch".
"DO NOT TOUCH that guitar with a drill; it
isn't needed", warns Wayne.
I personally, followed Wayne's recommendations and had not a single "tool" with which to work on this project. I used a flat piece of plywood and used to small bricks on each end to stabelize the two pieces while they were curing.

That guitar is now my instrument of preference; rich TONE; Accurate playability.

My biggest hurdle was to leave it alone and let it have the time it required to cure and harden. I gave it 24 hours just to be sure. NO regrets!

Dan Sawyer · Post by **Dan Sawyer** » 29 May 2005 11:58 pm

This is a product i hadn't heard of. Evidentally it's spelled "Acraglas" and made by a company called Brownell for hunters.