Salaries then and now

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 13 Dec 2002 6:52 pm

When I was active in music you could buy a new Chevy for a couple of thousand dollars or a new suit for thirty five. Since then prices have gone up at least a thousand percent. I've been wondering how much musicians' incomes have increased since then. In the mid 40's the going pay for an Opry musician (including full-time on the road) was $75 per week. Of course, travel and hotels were paid, but we bought our own food and we had to dress in the required uniforms -- which were usually Turk's or Nudie's and quite expensive. When Pee Wee moved the band to Louisville he put us on an annual basis, which was $5,000 per year for the radio and TV work, and we got from $15 to $30 for dance gigs and concerts. That was in 1947 to 49. After I left Pee Wee and started college, I worked the local clubs for $15.00 per night -- again, the going rate at the time. Record sessions payed $41.25 for three hours and 4 sides.

Has it improved any? Do any of you earn a thousand percent more than I earned back then? No intent to pry; just curious.
[This message was edited by Roy Ayres on 13 December 2002 at 06:54 PM.]

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 13 Dec 2002 7:07 pm

When I give it up in 1979, clubs around Augusta Ga. were paying $35/$50 a nite and Christmas/new year $75 up,acording to who you were working with and where the party was. Don't know about now,just playin for the fun of it..
BF

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Bill Ford

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 13 Dec 2002 7:10 pm

Roy the salary you mentioned was about right for that era, however, the boss on my road band counted about half of the $75.00 weekly salary as expenses so we didn't have to pay income tax on it...that was a big break! That didn't do much for my ego though, as that meant I was working for $37.50 a week for seven straight days on the road, and that was my only income!

By comparison, my salary last year was $100 a night for four nights a week, and I considered that as just part-time work. Big difference!

Gene

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 13 Dec 2002 8:39 pm

Back when guys were getting $15. a night and Chevy's were 2000. Now Chevys are $20,000. so the pay should be equivelent to keep up at $150. a night. So , as I see it, wages has not kept up to inflation...al

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 15 Dec 2002 5:57 pm

You can go down on "Lowest Broadway",& make a base-pay of literally "tens of dollars".

The clubs there will give you $20 for 4 hrs. of work. That's 4 STRAIGHT hrs. (well,maybe you'll get one break.) The rest is "tips". I never made more than $38 on "L. B."! D'ya still wanna move to NashVILE?? (generally speaking.)

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mm if it ain't got that twang.
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Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 15 Dec 2002 9:04 pm

Recording:
$150 for 3 hours: el cheapo rate
$600 or so for 3 hours double scale for label work.

Bar gigs for fun playing music that I'm learning from about $20 and a sandwich.

Singer/songwriter, band or whatever club gigs in town $50 to $100.

Van tour $500 to $800 plus per deums and expenses per week.

Label supported tour: $1000 plus per week.

Some guys get around $5000 per week to go on the road with KD Lang or somebody like that.

Bob

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 16 Dec 2002 4:01 am

Bob:

WOW! Times have changed more than I thought. (Laurie says she still wouldn't let me go on the road again, even at the KD rates.)

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 16 Dec 2002 7:13 am

Musician pay has been on a decline since I started playing in 1967. I always compared it to the cost of drinks. Price of drinks would go up and band wages stayed the same or lagged way behind. Union scale was never a factor. It was always under the going rate. If a band tried to raise their prices, other bands or sidemen didn't fall in line, so it was self defeating. Or, the front man, booking agents and others at the top got to it before the sidemen could get any?
I guess, in conclusion, we were setting ourselves up for it?

Dennis

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 16 Dec 2002 7:27 am

When I worked for Fender in California, I often got calls to fill in for an absent steel man at one of the clubs in the LA area. I got a call one evening from a band leader in downtown Long Beach asking me to fill in for his steel man who was out that night. He said they would pay $35.00. I told him I would have to cancel my plans for the evening, drive all the way to Long Beach and lug a hundred pounds of equipment from the nearest parking lot, and I wouldn't do it for less than $50. He turned me down, but called later to say that they were desperite and the club owner had agreed to pay the difference. I was tired of upsetting my life to bail someone out for practically nothing, so I began asking $50 to $60 hoping to stop the calls. It worked.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 16 Dec 2002 8:00 am

Roy, I found that sometimes they would negotiate....a club owner (read beer joint) called me one night to fill in for the steel player in a four piece group and said he was paying the band members $20.00 but it was ONLY a three hour job...I said "no thanks" and he then offered to pay me $25.00...if I would swear NOT to tell the other guys in the band!

www.genejones.com

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 16 Dec 2002 8:49 am

I worked for the Glory not for the money.
I received the Glory and not the money.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 16 Dec 2002 9:18 am

...Jody, you are lucky...I didn't recieve either one....

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 16 Dec 2002 9:53 am

I get about $75/gig for commercial music, $25/gig for original music, on average. Of course, I'm just a hobby player. I'm sure that professionals make more.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic

Perry Hansen · Post by **Perry Hansen** » 16 Dec 2002 12:25 pm

When I started working the clubs in Southern California we were lucky to get 12.00 a night. This was in the mid to late 50s. I moved to Hawaii and jumped to 15.00. Alaska was better in the early 60s at 40.00 a night. Coures that was eight hours a night. North Dakota was the best I had at 300.00 a week six nights a week, four hours a night in the early 70s. Now for the last two years I'm working for 80.00 to 100.00 a night. However, its just three or four nights a month. But I'm old so I guess that's ok.

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 16 Dec 2002 12:40 pm

Good thread,
When I moved to New York 15 years ago, shows were $8-10, a studio apartment cost a grand a month, you could get a rehearsal space for $300 a month in Manhattan (and share it with a bunch of potheads who would use your gear). In 2002, shows are still $8-10, but studio apartments are two grand, there are practically no rehearsal studios in Manhattan. You're lucky if you can get eight nights a month for $500. Moral of the story? Playing in bands 12 years ago we were happy to get $20 each; in 2002 I still make $20 for playing more often than I'd like to admit. Sad state of affairs, my friends.

Gerald

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 16 Dec 2002 1:26 pm

I have made double or triple what you can make in the best clubs by playing 8 to 9 hours on the street in a major downtown on a Friday or Saturday night. It's got it's own rules and things that maximize what you make. Allot of famous players have worked the street in their day. But nothing beats a great 4 hour gig and you get the cover at the door and a percent of the bar tab!

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 16 Dec 2002 4:36 pm

here in the Cafés where i get to play we get 100 $ each when a trio or 150 $ for a Duo
4 45 minute sets. i get to play 2/3 WE a month
unfortunatly w: a 4 or 5 piece band the split makes less $$$ for everyone.In Summer i sometimes manage to get 700 $ for 4/5 piece band
One thing tho' here in Southern France Musicians always get a good meal and fine wine on the house before the gig !
i used to play in the Street in Paris and made some good money at that.
i'm not bent on Fame but playin' for Glory is something i don't neglect doin either and in this way i can promote this improved Diddly Bow i love so much

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Steel what?

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 16 Dec 2002 5:47 pm

Gene
You have the "Glory" its back here where people appreciate who and what you are.AND...
You play GREAT as well.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 17 Dec 2002 2:29 am

It does appear that time stood still for the working local musician. In the 60's I made around $30 a gig, in the 70's $50 to $75, in the 80's $75 to over $100, in the 90's..well they didn't pay much in church..presently the gigs pay in the $75 range..I guess we're making our way back to the 60's.

I paid $110 for my first brand new Telecaster at Rudy's in NYC in the early 60's. My twin brand new at Manny's ( yes from Henry ) was I think $345. My Pro III from Sam Ash brand new 8+4 was $1250.

Today, the EBAY listing fee for a new Telecaster is probably $110 ! ha ha !

A Twin and a new D10...well certainly up over $4000 ....

Evidently us working musicians are not part of the inner circle , so it seems...

Thats it... the next gig that I am offered $75 for..I am holding out for $450 or I ain't showin' up ! Oh yea..I'm gonna want gas money too....

tp

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 17 Dec 2002 6:07 am

Tony
If you bought your Fender Twin from Mannys,I
got the commision.

If you bought your Telecater from Rudy,I didnt get the commision
as Rudy as nice as he was and still is was not an "authorized" Fender dealer. Your deal from Ash cant be beat,I didnt get the commision of that.

You may or may not know this,but Henry Goldrich sold Mannys Music to Sam Ash. Jerry and Paul Ash will continue the name and
legacy of Mannys Music.

You owe me $47.00 for commision,pay it NOW or your neck will WARP.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 17 Dec 2002 11:52 am

$47 ??? Geesh..thats almost a whole gigs money ! Well I don't have that first Tele' anymore so I guess whoever owns it now, if any actually does, will end up with a warped neck from Jody's spell.

I didn't know that Henry sold the place, I guess the last time I saw him or at least I think the last time I saw him was back in the mid 90's or so. I don't recall if he was in the store when I bought my Fender 62 RI Stack Knob Jazz Bass around '95 or so but I seem to think he was. I remember talking to him for a few momnents but don't recall the time frame, early 90's or mid 90's.

I'm probably 8 or 10 Telecasters beyond the first one so I aint' payin' any commission, considering I payed $800 for my 1989 /52RI tele' this year I think I payed enough !. I'm thinking I may have paid more for this one Tele then I sold all the others for combined ! Now the Strats are a different story..Different topic for a different day.

At least you got the commission from the Twin I bought from Henry , that counts for somethin'.

Those were great days for us as young musicians, we hung out in NYC at least a couple of weekends each month, hung out in the music stores on 48th street and saw and spoke to many many major great musicians back then. Manny's was always our favorite and the only problem I ever saw with that store is that they were so busy and crowded, always, it was hard to check out guitars and amps. I used to go to that store when the guitar room was upstairs in that small creeky floor room. It was great. The whole street back then was a great time and today it remains a great memory.

TP

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 18 Dec 2002 7:04 am

I make about $100-$150 a night playing Pedal Steel & Utility Lead Gtr.

New Years I will make $350 & dinner.

For me, it is fine for part time work.....

Thanks,

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Tim Harr - Carter D-10 8 & 9 - Troy Cook & the Long Haul Band

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 18 Dec 2002 7:22 pm

I remember when I first got out of the Army in early '63 I moved to LA and got a job on Sunday afternoon and Monday night at the Lelani Club in Wilmington for $9.00 per night. I lived in a small trailer a few blocks away which I rented for $10.00 a week with utilities paid. This left me eight bucks to eat on. Lucky thing is we got some tips which helped buy guitar strings. I remember I was working with a guy named Buzz Rabin who later moved to Nashville and wrote some pretty good songs. I think he's still down there. I moved from that gig to a little dive in Gardena called "Hap's Lucky Spot" where I worked Friday, Saturday, & Sunday night with a big heavy set dude who was called Teddy Bear. We had a girl drummer/singer named Cookie who was one ugly chick. At this time I also landed a Sunday afternoon and Monday night gig at a place called "The Shamrock Club" on PCH in Lomita I think that was the city. So with the 3 nights and the double sunday I was walkin' in tall cotton. Altogether now I was making about 75 bucks a week. Things got better as I went along and in 22 years of working as a professional musician in the Los Angeles area I was never out of work unless I wanted to be. That was a great time to be a picker. What's weird is that the Union clubs usually paid less than the gigs I could get in a non union joint. I did a little road work and hated that crap so I never pursued that life. I raised my family, bought a couple of houses, always had a nice car, and all by playing full time country music.........Oh by the way, my wife had a good day job which helped as far as medical benefits and such and she usually made more than I did. Dang, I wish I still had her!!!! Nowadays I work part time with a 5 piece band called the Legends. I think we have a good classic country sound and we all get along great and have a good following. You can check us out at www.tomagear.com/legends if you'd like. We play some gigs for free, some for a little money, and some for real good money. The great thing is I don't have to do it for a living anymore.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 18 Dec 2002 7:53 pm

Tony
On second thought,send me your snail mail and
I'll send you the $47.00.That floor wasn't creeky,,that was me walking down the stairs
to go to the Pizza Hut Express on 6th ave.

I called and spoke to Paul Ash,he will send me Henry's address,I thought the world of Henry and I still do. His sons Ian and Josh took over but I dont know what happened.

I never thought I would see that day that Mannys was no more.
It was I who sold Manny the Fender Franchise back in 65..did you know his wife Judy? good people,the BEST..I sure miss those days.

I went to 48th street a while ago and I could
feel the ghosts of the past. Most all the guys I knew are gone. The music scene has changed and Im glad Im not in it today,I couldnt handle the BS,I have a conscience,the music companies want salesman
not people with a conscience,do you dig?

Michael T. Hermsmeyer · Post by **Michael T. Hermsmeyer** » 19 Dec 2002 2:18 am

Hey Jody, You're a riot! LOL. I love reading your responses. By the way, since you sold Manny's their Fender franchise in '65, then without you, Jimmy Hendrix would have probably played a Gibson and the Strat might have not become the premier guitar in Rock and Roll! Jimmy always bought his stratocasters from Manny's, at least thats what they say in just about every issue of Guitar Player magazine since 1971, LOL.
Congrats to a job well done, my friend. You are the premier Fender historian. Did you have any part in Music Man or G&L? Just curious.
Oh as far as the actual post is concerned...
My first gig ever, in 1980, in a bar called the Pigg Pen, paid me $25.00!!! I was 14 years old and playing drums. Since I picked up steel in 1984, things have improved almost non-drastically. Here is my experience:
1980-92: I played in many bands and had a few of my own. The going rate at the time was $300.00 for a four piece country group. $75.00 per man, union or not.
1992: A gig at a nationally known theme park paid $60.00 per day.
1993-94: Myrtle Beach area, between $300.00-$550.00 per week.
1995-96: Nashville Artist Road Gig, $150.00 per show minimum plus $25.00-$35.00 Per-dium. 50 to 80 shows per year plus Opry and TNN stuff.
1997-pres.: Branson, MO,
Morning shows:$300.00-$500.00 per week, 5-6 shows,
Matinee shows: $300.00-$500.00 per week, 5-6 shows,
Evening shows: $600.00-$800.00 per week, 6-7 shows.
Many shows run a matinee and an evening show on the same day. They may run 6 days a week from March-August, take a week off and go to 7 days a week after Labor Day through the 2nd week in Dec. That's 14 shows a week for 3 1/2 months with no break, except for Thanksgiving if you're lucky. Salaries then may reach $900.00-$1200.00 per week for an average of 40 weeks or so. Then back to the unemployment line and wait for them not to call you back. Always CYOA!!!, LOL
In summary, I made the same $75.00 per show in 2001 as I did in 1980. Ahhh Progress!! LOL
Just in case you wanted to know.
Michael T.

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UTILITY MAN PRODUCTIONS
'73 EMMONS D10 FATBACK, '92 EMMONS D10 LASHLEY LEGRANDE,
'85 DOBRO 60DS, '95 DOBRO F60S,
'95 MELOBAR CUSTOM, 1955 FENDER TRIPLE NECK STRINGMASTER. EVANS, FENDER, PEAVEY,
and MESA BOOGIE Amps.

[This message was edited by Michael T. Hermsmeyer on 19 December 2002 at 02:23 AM.]