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Topic: What should be the rule? |
Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2002 4:39 pm |
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| What if you needed a sub for your gig and when you found someone they cancelled out at the last minute or say late enough that it would be very hard to get another sub? I know it's your gig but when you think you've got it covered and you're about to leave for your trip or whatever you have to do I'm thinking your sub should do a little more than call you and put it back on you. It seems that the sub should at best try to find another sub along with your help instead of calling and saying "Sorry but I can't make it". What do you think? |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 21 Jul 2002 5:13 pm
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In most cases, the bandleader I'm working with is the one who is responsible to staff the bandstand. If he needs a steel player when I'm gonna be absent, I will usually suggest someone, but the ultimate responsibility for the gig is his. You may have a different arrangement, but in most bands I've worked with any subs are hired by the leader. If I WERE the bandleader, I'd probably feel obligated to be there if a sub finked out on me.
I know what you mean about some people just not taking responsibilities and commitments seriously. It goes way beyond the music business. In any case, it would certainly eliminate him from any future calls from me, but that may not be much of a deterrent.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 21 July 2002 at 06:17 PM.] |
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Earl Erb
From:
Old Hickory Tenn
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Posted 21 Jul 2002 5:20 pm
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I agree, that's a pretty ignorant stunt to pull on somebody at the last minute. I think a sub should bear some responsibility. I think I would make sure I lost that persons phone number never to be called again.  |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 21 Jul 2002 5:55 pm
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| Absolutely irresponsible. |
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Chris Bauer
From:
Nashville, TN USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2002 6:20 pm
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| I absolutely agree! And besides, it's not like there aren't a zillion (or is it now a zillion and and half?) steel players in Nashville who could cover it. I'd think the sub coulda made a few calls pretty easily. [This message was edited by Chris Bauer on 21 July 2002 at 07:21 PM.] |
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Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2002 3:35 am
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| After being a club owner for 16 years and one of the band members as well I can't tell you how many hours I've spent on the phone looking for someone to fill in. Around here it's get the money and worry about what you have to tell them later. Pickers here will drop you in a heartbeat for a little better paying gig. The gig that I have now is different for me. I'm not the bandleader but everybody always comes to me to get a sub for them because I know a bunch of people here. That's OK but the cancelling out when you think you've got it covered kills me. I think if you commit to the gig you should either play it or get another sub and stay in touch with the guy you're replacing. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 22 Jul 2002 7:00 am
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I'd have to know a little more to make a judgement. Some guys (we have a couple around here) will cancel simply because a better-paying comes up. These are the players that do nothing else, so they place pretty high priority on the money. Did the sub say why he cancelled? Was illness or an accident involved? Was everything clearly stated about the gig in the first place? (There were gigs I went ahead and played when I should have said "No thanks".) But, if I had a dollar for every time a lead player didn't show, I couldn't buy a new steel...but I could buy a nice amp!
Was it a contractual thing that you had to have a steel? A really good steeler can usually cover for the lead guitar, and vice-versa. |
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Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2002 12:32 pm
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Donny,
This is a general question not designated toward anybody in particular. It has happened and is fairly common here all the time. No contracts or anything like that. If you ask a guy to come and sit-in for you or someone else in the band or if it's just a one-niter and you call someone to play and then they cancel out at the last moment is the scenario. You can believe the excuse is always a family type of thing that can't be avoided. I've heard enough of these excuses to know it's just not that common. I understand that when you make your whole living playing music you need the money but I think once you've committed to the gig whatever the circumstances you should either play it or find somebody to play if you decide not to do it whether it's a family illness or you're playing somewhere else. I don't think it should be on paper to be a commitment. I've passed on a bunch of gigs to honor my first commitment even when they payed more or were going to be a more desirable gig. That's just the right thing to do in my opinion. |
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Earl Erb
From:
Old Hickory Tenn
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Posted 22 Jul 2002 1:14 pm
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Donny,
You sound like a defense attorney. 
Quote: Was illness or an accident involved?
IMO,those are the only ledgitimate reasons someone should bail out at the last minute.We are talking about character and respect for the other person.If a sub gives his word than that should be it.I don't care how much money is involved.I've made my living in this town for 35 years and have never cancelled on anyone at the last minute and besides that,99.9% of my work is booked at least 2 weeks in advance.The right to cancel is part of the business but to wait until the night before or the day of the gig is unacceptable.
Frank,
Sounds like we need a couple of good lawyers to take care of our musical needs.Let's sue over a $40.00 gig...yeah,that's the ticket.
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Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2002 3:31 pm
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Earl,
The ones that really get to me are the ones that are real crafty and try to keep you on the hook just in case the big money gig doesn't come through. I've had to put together hundreds of bands and it seems somebody always needs a sub and I just get elected to cover it for them. There is no loyalty here. These guys will cut your throat for $10.00 more in a minute. Even our bandleader has me to cover him when he's gone. I seldom get more than a weeks notice to replace somebody so it's always hectic and then they call you at the last minute and give you some lame excuse as to why they can't make it. Nashville has the best musicians anywhere but not the most professional. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 23 Jul 2002 5:13 pm
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No Earl, I'm not an attorney, but I used to be a "Masonite". (That's a guy that watched Perry every week. ) I, too, have never backed out on a gig, but there's a couple I probably should have! I just like to give others the benefit of the doubt.
However, there was one gig that I missed. Allow me to digress...
It was New Year's Eve...the biggest gig of the year was only 9 hours away, back in '74. Seems I went out to lunch with a few friends, and some guy that was driving a Z-28 Camaro had a few too many. I was just a passenger in one of the cars, and we had a head-on colision at about 55 mph. Folks at the scene, as well as the paramedics, thought I was dead. Well, I did get my back broke in 4 places, and had serious facial, head, and neck injuries...but it wasn't my time to go, I guess. I can still remember hearing the doctor talking to my wife (I guess he thought I was unconscious). Anyway, he said "If he lives through the night, he might have a chance". Well, I was determined to do just that.
That lunch put me out of the music business...and my day job, for the better part of a year. I finally recovered, for the most part, and things went right back to normal after the operations (7 of them), and a lot of physical therapy.
Other than that, I guess you could say I've been totally reliable and dedicated. Hasn't gotten me anywhere though, and I have no claim to fame. But if I tell you "I'll be there", you can pretty much bank on it!
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Earl Erb
From:
Old Hickory Tenn
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Posted 23 Jul 2002 6:13 pm
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| Donny,glad to see you are among the living. I'd say you had a very good reason for cancelling in 1974. Ouch! |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2002 6:43 pm
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Donny:
Here in Limestone, TN, it is such a small town that the same people that belonged to the Knights of Columbus also belonged to the Masonic Lodge. To keep things simple, we just merged and formed a new club...we are called (are you ready to groan).....Masonites! |
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Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2002 8:39 pm
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| Well I heard there was a new island for the gays and lesbians to go and party together called "Paradykes Island". You can only get there by "Ferry" or a "Bi-Plane"! |
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Bob Hayes
From:
Church Hill,Tenn,USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2002 7:46 pm
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Frank, I agree with Earl. If I'm booked for a job..I'm Booked..(I wish that I could get some bookings.) But I have never canceled 'cause someone offered me More$ at another gig..Once booked..you should be commited!! All a person realy has is his or her "HONOR"....and being an old military man..I still believe in that your word..or(honor) is somewhat like a contract! It is Binding!....It realy dosn't mater what the difference in $ is.... If IT IS about the money..then..the person that says "yes" then decides"no" should attempt to get another replacement or give you or whoever enough time to get a sutiable replacement! I guess I still think about the morality of it.
Grouchyvet |
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Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 25 Jul 2002 6:47 am
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What Johan Says!
I've been there, done that. |
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Perry Hansen
From:
Bismarck, N.D.
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Posted 25 Jul 2002 7:11 am
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What Joey said.
It's a matter of personal pride. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 25 Jul 2002 10:28 am
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Frank, thats why it's your gig and not someone elses. IF someone made a committment to me to sub and bagged out at the last minute shy of a family emergency I would never call him or her again. When I was the bandleader of our band years ago this did happen now and again, it's stress city to say the least but we always got thru it as there was always someone available if you made enough calls. The band I'm with now all subs are hired by the bandleader, and sometimes that ain't so great either. I have a pretty narrow opinion on these matters as I believe that a sub should add to the band with a different dimension, not take away from what we already have. Frank, you are obviously a pro and thats why you're bothered . If I lived near you I'd sub for you for free.
tp |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 25 Jul 2002 11:58 am
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I believe the sub should
1. Show up
2. Be on time (read: EARLY)
3. LISTEN CAREFULLY -- listen first, play later
4. Only speak when spoken to (musically)
What I mean by that is he/she should show appreciation for the opportunity by his/her behavior and show respect by realizing that, unless he happens to be Buddy Emmons (not likely these days), the band is probably more interested in showcasing the band and the songs than the steel player.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro |
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Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2002 3:06 pm
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Tony,
I think I could win the prize for finding subs or entire bands if there was one. I understand that when you do it for a living money is the bottom line but I think if you've made a commitment to sub for some body it's on you from there on unless there are unusual circumstances like personal injury etc. Last week I found more than a good sub and got Danny Mohammed to cover me. Danny has been Ray Prices steel player for 13 years and one hell of a great player. That was lucky for me and I'll have to play my best when I go back in this week. |
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