Melody, to be or not to be...

Scott Clancy · Post by **Scott Clancy** » 28 Mar 2002 10:34 pm

I can't resist this one guys and hope I don't start a war, but it furiates me to see people "Self Appointing" themselves as an authority in an ART. And hest we forget that music is an art, a form of self expression, so here it is, To just play the melody can get boring, to just play around the melody can get ambigous, but to Start of playing the melody one line then rippin it up at the end of the lead is what turns me on the most.
But let me end with this, art should never have rules, it's one last freedom Americans have and rules distroys the soul attachment to your playing. Just because I like it that way doesn't mean it's law or officially better, it's a preffrence from a single idividuall [me] If you want to play well You better play it the way you want not the way "Other" people say it should be played.
OK I'm done now kill me !!!
Scott

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"Money distroys or Food and Music keep it an art and play from your heart". Sierra Session D10 Keyless , Too many amps to list.

Rusty Hurse · Post by **Rusty Hurse** » 29 Mar 2002 12:31 am

Well Scott,like you say music is an art form and self expression is great and I am all for it.I konw playing melodies can be boring at times especially if you play the same old songs every nite and the same old licks.Now you have a chance to expand into playing harmonies with different instruments in the band.If you were to work with a western swing band or big band or what ever you might want to learn how to play 2nd 3rd 4th or 5th part harmonies to either violins or horns, there as you know you have to stay with in a reasonable facsimily of the melody. If you dont you wont work long with a band because they have no idea of what the hell you are doing and they will not be able to follow you if you take off on a tangent. Now that is a reason to follow a melody line or learn to play the melody line. Now on the other hand if you want to go jam out and have fun then just let it rip as long as you stay in the right chord progressions ( BUT THEN ) what is a right chord progression.You can improvise to your hearts content and get as ambiguious as you want, as long as it is in tune of course.So it is really not a Catch 22 situation as you might think.It is really alot of "COMMON SENSE", which I have to say that some people have very little of.Here is a quote from a friend and a great steel guitarist" I have seen some people do more damage with a steel guitar than they would have an axe any day".

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 29 Mar 2002 2:17 am

There was a time way back when I played "around" the melody as an excuse because I couldn't play the melody.I never took the time to be serious and really understand positions, pedals and knee lever changes from a melody perspective. Art as a form is created by an artist for his or her own work. A band plays a song as a group and generally as Rusty stated above common sense must prevail . I worked with a steel player who could burn up the fret board with licks on top of licks but he couldn't play a melody line to save his life and in contrast, that got very boring as well. I would still contend, at least for me, playing a melody or lead line is not an option, playing around the melody is. But heck what do I know ,I'm still trying to figure out which brand of metal picks I like better !
tp

Bob Farlow · Post by **Bob Farlow** » 29 Mar 2002 3:51 am

Hey Rusty, Vern hit the nail on the head, didn't he? I sure miss that old f@rt.

Steven Knapper · Post by **Steven Knapper** » 29 Mar 2002 4:16 am

For the record Scott, as a gallaried artist whose paintings sell well into the hunrdreds of dollars (watercolor and mixed media), there ARE rules to art, especially if you plan on selling anything. It works the same way with music. Rusty and Tony are pretty much right on. I really think a lot of us steel players need to take a course in Harmony 101 and crank up the common sense a bit. Just my opinion, but I come from a family with trained musicians (composers and arrangers) in it and it rubs off I guess.

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 29 Mar 2002 4:28 am

Instead of playing what we want to play, which is great at steel jams and at home, shouldn't we be playing what we think our paying audience will like? Aren't we there to please the audience, first and foremost? I am not saying that stretching out and playing around the melody won't please an audience, but I think you have to consider the place your're playing and the audience. For example, if you are playing in Church and doing In the Garden, I don't think playing around the melody is going to register near as well as sticking to it. I think a big part of being a Pro is putting your wants and ego aside and doing what is best to make the band sound good and pleasing the audience.[This message was edited by George Kimery on 29 March 2002 at 04:31 AM.]

Sidney Malone · Post by **Sidney Malone** » 29 Mar 2002 4:58 am

Scott, I mostly agree with you and the others here as well.

I believe it really depends on whether your backing a singer or soloing. Of course if your soloing you need to play the melody, or very close to it, so the people listening will know what your playing. I also love to hear players rip it up after they've established what they were playing to start with.

Now if your backing a singer that is a different ballgame all together. Of course whoever is writing the check may tell you what to play, but if not, I think you should be allowed to express yourself through your instrument across a predetermined chord progression which is normally, but not always, the chorus of the song. When playing fills behind a singer I never know exactly what I'm going to play until the fill is finished. And if someone asked me after the song what fill I played on a certain line, I probably would'nt remember.

When I first went to see Maurice Anderson for lessons I was under the impression that when it was time for me to play a ride that I had to play the melody. He challenged me to find a record recorded by a top artist in the last 25-30 years that played the melody on the lead break of the song. I was ready for this because I had a lot of Haggard, Jones, Conway & Waylon in my truck and I just knew it would'nt be a problem to find the melody being played. Was I ever WRONG!!! I listened for 2 hrs. in the hotel parking lot, fast forwarding through it seemed like hundreds of songs and NO MELODY was to be found!! Reece really tore down some fences with that one and thats probably one of the biggest reasons I'm still playing today!!

I've seen Merle Haggard several times and he does a completly ad lib show. I'm talking about down to who's going to play the lead at any given time. He calls them off as they go and it's never the same twice. The musicians are allowed to play what they want, as long as it's good. They do play the signature licks that everyone recognizes but for the most part they are completly free to express themselves.

I guess I've said all that to say this, there are times to play the melody and there are times to please the boss and there are times to express yourself. I don't make a living playing music (I would have starved to death long ago) so if the boss wants to fence me in to playing only the melody, then it's time for ME to find a new boss.

The freedom to play the instrument and express youself or make the song sound as good as you possibly can over a predetermined chord progression is where it's all at for me.

Steven Knapper · Post by **Steven Knapper** » 29 Mar 2002 7:29 am

Once again, George seems to have the idea here. Our job is to make the singer sound good. When it's time to take a solo, turnaround, etc, go nuts within the context of the song, which I think Sid is saying. Bottom line is that we ARE there to please the people, if not, you ain't gonna have a job next week. It's too bad we all can't play in a band like the Dead, nothing was ever the same twice.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 29 Mar 2002 7:35 am

I was playing with a small group in Phoenix several years ago. It came my turn to take the break and I must have gotten kind of wild and crazy because the next thing I knew, the lead player jerked his chord out of the amp, packed up his ax and went home!
Uff-Da!

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 29 Mar 2002 9:48 am

Erv.. Some of us view that situation as a good thing.

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Carter D10 9p/10k
Richard Sinkler

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 29 Mar 2002 11:11 am

I think a big part of being a Pro is putting your wants and ego aside and doing what is best to make the band sound good and pleasing the audience.

Hi George,
This depends to me(IMHO) what the purpose of your performance is.
If you are a musician that is hired for backing up some-one,or playing a show on whatever conditions you agree, you will have to be playing at the likes for who is paying

Same for studio-work, workshops etc.
If you will express what is in your mind, just play what you like, whether the audience likes it or not. And see what happens.
Rembrandt (famous Dutch painter) painted on his own way around a theme. People didn't like it at that time, and he died in poverty. But shure he was an honest ARTist!
So it's up to what you have in mind, pleasing the audience, or (and) say what's on your mind.

But to me, you will have to know how to play the melody first, before you give it your own turn, your own words. Then you prove to yourself that you know what is happening.
JJ
(Everybody steps aside for the man who knows where he is going)

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 29 Mar 2002 11:21 am

...they also step aside for the man who really stinks...[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 29 March 2002 at 11:55 AM.]

Scott Clancy · Post by **Scott Clancy** » 29 Mar 2002 11:24 am

Goverment, Cops, Jails for musicians that wont do what you ask !!!
WE are still in some posts evailing around the focus point with non sequetures,
The point has drifted to "Proffesional Saleable, Marketable" musician".FROM "A free spirited artist" deciding to play or not to play the melody.
It was not my intention to state how a "Proffessional Musician" should play,
What do I know?, The point when dealing with me guys is "I AM NOT A PROFFESSIONAL MUSICIAN". A pro plays what people want to hear. I am a "free spirited artist" not a musician. Now please knowone turn this statement into "Proffessional Artist " PLEASE. A free spirited artist does not follow rules and advice from "Self-appointed"
authorities drunk on fake power. THERE ARE NO RULES TO ART.[Remember the criticts *lucky artist* Buddy Emmons had to listen to when adding that infamous "DO-WAAAA" eighth pedal]?, Weather you adjust your style to make it markatable or stick with what your "heart" wants to paint or hear determins your ability to drift from being an artist to a "proffessional". Proffessional means to get paid for your work, it's meaning has nothing to do with quality or style. It simply means someone has paid you to do it. All authorities on the subject of art are self appointed.
Self appointed authorities are bogus and fake.
As for getting paid to play "What you want to hear"? Thats the big ticket in this arena, Right now I am being "sniffed" out by some old friends of mine for a possable "paid" gig. But you know what? I am not going to change my playing for a "Paid" job. They are going to like me for what I am in heart or it's time to move on. You see they want the "Flanging" Chorus effects, wacky "doowaaaa" tone attacks and It's not in my heart to play through that computer crap, and that LOUD anymore,,!!

My heart says no and my buds in the band say YES !!! Now hear is the difference between a "Creative Artist" and a fool for money and
a lucky "Proffessional" .
I am in the "Creative Artist" stage, creating my own style and thoughts about what
sounds good and what I want to hear.
Now I am faced with one of two possabillities,
1= "Fool for money" Change, plug into effects, run stereo effects chorus and bells and bombs go back to hating my art, or;;;;
2 = "Lucky Artist" They think about what I am allready doing and realise that they don't need more volume and effects from the steel department and "accept" me the way I am
and offer me a paying job. THATS A LUCKY ARTIST FOLKS .
And that is the focus of my attitude. I could turn up the volume and turn on the effects gadgets tonight and land a "paying" perminent job but I WONT !!!That's prostitution in my book, and besides, do you all want to spend the rest of your life getting paid to hate your job? Just keep chasing the almighty dollar and IGNORE your heart and sole. Trust me I did, I played for Sonny Martin [an actor in smokey and the bandit], and did what ever it took for that 800 dollar a week retainer overseas, and I got to hating being a steel picker and hating the music so much in two years I walked away from an almost 40,000 dollar a year steel pickin job. The only thing I miss is those over seas trips to different countries. Now after five years of the steel not being takin out of the case ? I am back, but this time I am ignorant to self appointed authorities and only listening to my heart, It will probably cost me a paying job in a few weeks but I wouldn't have it any other way.
Music is so much like intimate relationships when you think about it? You can "change your real self" and fit into "Her" life and likes; and land in divorce court within two years or you can "Stay your Ground" with her and she'll tell you to get lost and you end up with a girl that loves who you are six months later and now you can feel free to be yourself and nurture the relationship. Playing in a band is very simmilar, or should I say "LOOKING" for a band to play in.
So no matter how many times I hear there are rules to music, I will reject it as a "Platonic" floating "A" point non-seqeture that's pertaining to :
Proffesional? There are rules.
Artist? There are NONE.
Lucky Artist? Gets paid for being himself.
My goal is "Artist".
The last one is fate and chance, and in my financial situation NOT NECCESSARY.
My network engineering job makes that overseas steel pickin job I walked away from look like a paper route.Keep it free play from your heart guys, and let your soul in on the decisions and be a "Lucky Artist" some day. Or resort to the worlds oldest proffession
and burn out and quit. Or end up a drunken fool.

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"Money distroys or Food and Music keep it an art and play from your heart". Sierra Session D10 Keyless , Too many amps to list.
[This message was edited by Scott Clancy on 29 March 2002 at 11:30 AM.][This message was edited by Scott Clancy on 29 March 2002 at 11:31 AM.]

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 29 Mar 2002 11:31 am

Scott, good attitude!
You live! Be proud of that!
J

Scott Clancy · Post by **Scott Clancy** » 29 Mar 2002 11:40 am

Thanx Johan;
Hey Ye'all I have gone from stardom to the streets with out a home over music. And from experiance every time I worried about "Money for music" I sold my soul to the devil for it or should I say Sold my thought and heart out for "The star of the show's" thoughts and desires. It makes more sense to be real and pray for a singer songwriter that just so happens to like who you are. I can tell a Member of the worlds oldest proffession from a "Lucky Artist" a mile away. Look at some of the "dog faces" behind what's left of some of the older Opry House stars. You can tell the "Lucky Artist" from the fake prostatutes, or should I say pro's?
They have this god awfull frown on their face and play with no feeling and tone,
Then the guy next to him? has a happy smile, and a bounce to his step and plays with soul, tone, and great taste. THAT GUY happens to be a lucky artist, not a personafide pro. Yes the word pro does mean to get paid, so I guess we will have to call it Proffessional Lucky Artist.
There is a new job title folks.
Scott

Scott Clancy · Post by **Scott Clancy** » 29 Mar 2002 11:56 am

One last note .
Somewhere down the line I have not mentioned the topic "Make the singer sound good" and "Make the band sound good" and "Blend with the band".
Well do I have to mention all of the above applies to the "Lucky Artist" syndrome.?
Just being myself guys untill fate sends me an artist that happens to like what I am, a band that happens to sound better playing the way I play, if it is natural and not forced all those issues about make the band sound good, make the singer sound good will take place naturally and not forced through co-hersion of unemployment. For co-hersion of unemployment is seelling your soul to the devil one more time. I have walked away from 7 [last time I counted] employment oppertunities from singers and songwriters
De'Javueing at the BlueBird Cafe' simply because my wisdom knows that they are not looking for the steel player that "I" am they need to keep looking for that Steel Player untill they find one that plays the way the singer wants through NATURAL UN-FORCED FREE SPIRITED WILL. Then and only then will that steel player play well but be happy with his proffession and ART.
I will not force myself to play a different style for love of the devil [$$$$$$$}.
So all of this "Make the band sound good" falls under the same catagory of "The right band for the right steel picker" and the right singer, it's all one of two choices, it's forced through financial desires, or it is a naturall happening. If you want success you better hold off for the "Natural happening" folks, because people in a "forced" situation, play horrible at what they do.You can't play well and hate what your doing.

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"Money distroys or Food and Music keep it an art and play from your heart". Sierra Session D10 Keyless , Too many amps to list.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 29 Mar 2002 11:57 am

...I don't really know how to respond to the previous comments.....apparently I fit the description of a (steel-guitar player) "prostitute" because I play cover behind the current recording artists CD's ....however I still play traditional steel when I have the opportunity.....so, am I a "bad person"? or just a player who does what is necessary to remain active in this changing occupation?.... www.genejones.com (btw.....I am 70 years old and still working) [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 29 March 2002 at 12:01 PM.]

Scott Clancy · Post by **Scott Clancy** » 29 Mar 2002 12:01 pm

Dear Gene;
If you enjoy what your playing and are playing what your heart tells you you should
be playing when you play those cover tunes then you are a "Lucky Artist".
But if you don't? Need I say more.
If you hate playing the stuff that pays you money, Get out wile you still can !!!
If you don't, Alcahol, drugs, depression, and "quitting Playing" is your destiny.
Scott

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 29 Mar 2002 12:02 pm

Gene,
What I read in your previous posts all along this forum you like a lot what you are doing. And, using Scott's words, that makes you a lucky pro. (You live too!!

)
JJ

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 29 Mar 2002 12:10 pm

I don't think about it so much.
If a gig sucks I move on to the next one. No big deal.

I have become a much better musician and artist by learning how to express myself within whatever set of parameters that the music needs.

Lets look at it like a guy who really loves cars. I'll work on any car from an old junker to a mercedes. I just want to get the thing going as best I can. Does that mean I love cars less than some guy who will only work on 57 Chevys ?

Weird thing for me is all that bad stuff like depression and all that happens for me when I don't play music.

Bob[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 29 March 2002 at 12:19 PM.]

Scott Clancy · Post by **Scott Clancy** » 29 Mar 2002 12:22 pm

Like you said in the beggining of your post Bob ,
If a gig realy sucks you'll move on, A member of the worlds oldest proffession would take the gig
and get drunk after the gig drowning himself in the sorrows of hating his work.
So it is still centered around your subjective" Do I like the gig Or don't I".
That is an act of Judging, and determination and "soul" comparison.
That is an act in it'self of applying emotions and soul values to the job.
That gives you the makings of a "Lucky Artist" concious awareness.

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"Money distroys or Food and Music keep it an art and play from your heart". Sierra Session D10 Keyless , Too many amps to list.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 29 Mar 2002 12:22 pm

Bob said: "If a gig sucks I move on to the next one. No big deal.".......

I agree with your comment Bob....and it makes no difference whether it's traditional or contemporary.... www.genejones.com

Scott Clancy · Post by **Scott Clancy** » 29 Mar 2002 12:27 pm

There is nothing wrong with contemporary,
I would have to be a self appointed authoritarian on the subject to differ.
There is something wrong with a picker like me playing it if "me" the picker hates to play the stuff. !!! If one likes it and they play it, they will play it well and still be connected to their soul through their instrament. Scott

Scott Clancy · Post by **Scott Clancy** » 29 Mar 2002 12:29 pm

Oh Well guy's and Gal's
I have to pack up for my gig tonight, Hummmmmmm??? What's this????
OH !!! The first thing I have to bring to the Gig is my Honest Soul,
Gee, I wonder if it will fit in the case?.
Scott

Steven Knapper · Post by **Steven Knapper** » 29 Mar 2002 12:44 pm

Scott, what is the point of all of this?? I really would like to know, I think the best thing you could do is build a band around you from what you are saying, unless I'm reading it wrong. I'm used to being yelled at so let it fly.