Steel on Allan Jackson's hit

Charles Beshears · Post by **Charles Beshears** » 19 Jan 2002 7:58 am

I hope this fits this part of the forumn.
The Gadsden Times our news paper for
n.central,al about 6 counties ran the story
of Allan Jackson's hit album "Drive"
The song "Where were you" sept.11)
rises to #1. I quote: "The staunchy Jackson
has refused to strip the steel guitar
from the song and release a pop version.
Its rising to the top anyway" unquote.

after about 40 yrs. of debate I have given
up hope of the steel been accepted in
anything but C/W which is my favorite anyway.
How ignorant the producers are and the powers
that be. They do not realize the steel is
the only instrument that is capable of
playing any type music,bar-none.
I thing we should go out and buy Allan's
recordings as soon as they come out.
But after all it takes a special musician
to even play Steel.
Charles Beshears

Steve Miller · Post by **Steve Miller** » 19 Jan 2002 3:23 pm

Hi Charles, good post. I truly don't get this. Why would they want to remove the steel from this or any other song. It's "supposed" to be country music. So Why would they remove the steel, which identifies it as country perhaps more than any other instrument? Isn't steel considered cool anymore by these clowns?

Anyone know the answer to this riddle?

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 19 Jan 2002 3:39 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Anyone know the answer to this riddle?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, and it's a pretty easy riddle. The producers feel that there is a lot of potential money to be made in the "pop" (Britney Spears, 'N Sync, etc.) market. Most often when country songs are released into the pop market, they are reproduced, remixed, rearranged, a new rhythm track is added, or whatever with the sole purpose or presenting a product that fits the definition of the field. Steel guitar does NOT fit this definition, irrespective of the capabilities it has, so it's dumped. That's it. It's not an artistic issue, it's based on the perception of the producers (who more often than not, know what they are talking about, since they have one purpose, and only one purpose, and that is to make money). If the producers felt they would make more money with the steel, in would be in there. They feel they will make less, so it's out of there. I believe that these folks are the ultimate realists. The are probably right.

Steve Miller · Post by **Steve Miller** » 19 Jan 2002 4:33 pm

Thanks Jeff, unfortunatly what you say makes perfect sense (cents?). Perhaps money truly is the root of all evil. Sure makes me mad though!

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 19 Jan 2002 6:49 pm

Alot of todays pop artists are also remixing and adding steel to their current singles. They seek airplay in other markets. I see this as an opportunity for the steel to branch out into all fields.

Paul
[This message was edited by Franklin on 20 January 2002 at 01:38 AM.]

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 19 Jan 2002 8:01 pm

Steel is also showing up in some commercials as well as pop music. (The Nick Jr. children's show Blues Clues uses steel.) Nice to see the increased lattitude.

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Bill (steel not out of the woodshed) | MSA Classic U12 | Email | My music | Steeler birthdays | Over 50?

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 19 Jan 2002 8:16 pm

I think it's good for us steelplayers to be "ready" to play outside the country thing. As long as a lot of us think only country, or come up in a studio-session with country-licks,we will stay there.

It's not up to us to persist our instrument to be used in other types of music, it's up to the producers and their audience. Let us not be a kind of B@nj*-players that try to force to be used in a heavy-metal-band

JJ

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my web-site
my bands CODand TSC

[This message was edited by Johan Jansen on 20 January 2002 at 05:11 AM.]

Kevin Lamb · Post by **Kevin Lamb** » 20 Jan 2002 12:59 am

A lot of the crossover stuff (Twain, Hill, etc.) is making it to the charts with the steel intact.
But I had to laugh during the Eagles/Bears playoff game today when the new Coors Lite ad came on....it is the big Brooks & Dunn hit from last year in which the steel dominates all the other instruments.
The sound is getting around - though I think it will be a while before Jeff Newman is asked to join Sean "Puffy" Combs band.
Oh, and Franklin playing on a Backstreet Boys tune...very cool.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 20 Jan 2002 2:37 am

Hey Paul, thanks for the post here. Quick question, Have you done any very recent sessions with so-called pop stars where the plan is to release the session song with the steel in tact ? Who would these folks be ?

Other than the typical cross-over folks of course..

Thanks
TP

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 20 Jan 2002 10:53 am

Tony,
Recently I have done this with Julio Iglesias, Backstreet Boys, The Marie Sisters, and Jewel.
Remixing is not as frequent in the pop field as it is with country artists but the trend is leaning that way.
My experience has been that once pop artists get familiar with what the instrument can bring to the table they continue to use the instrument on future projects. For instance Bucky Baxter is now touring with Bryan Adams playing guitar and steel. The steel guitar rocks.
Paul[This message was edited by Franklin on 20 January 2002 at 10:59 AM.]

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 20 Jan 2002 12:11 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Let us not be a kind of B@nj*-players that try to force to be used in a heavy-metal-band
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm sorry, but I don't get it. What's the difference ?
-John

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 21 Jan 2002 2:42 am

Hey Paul..Thats great ! Julio , Jewel..yes I could see( hear ) that..Backstreet Boys !! Geeze !! I imagine that if anyone could bring the steel to the forefront with a Global act like them it would be you...

I remember once way way back when Harry Chapin was still alive , I used to hang at one of the studios he used to rehearse at in Ct. I was listening to some takes and told the producer that he should add some steel to this particular mix. He blew me off, then the record came out about 6 months later with Steel on it, but it wasn't me ! He hired a pro out of Nashville, imagine that !

Thanks
Tony

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 21 January 2002 at 02:44 AM.][This message was edited by Tony Prior on 21 January 2002 at 02:46 AM.]

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 21 Jan 2002 10:16 am

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let us not be a kind of B@nj*-players that try to force to be used in a heavy-metal-band

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

John, what I mean by this: We don't need to force artists to use us, we need to deserve it!
The more pop-artists and their producers hear players like Paul making the songs "richer" with his pedal-steel adds, the more they will feel the need to use it. And that shure won't work with a cliche -type of approach. Instead of a b*nj& you can fill in accordeon too. If a song asks for a sound, producers will use it. (at least they need to get familiar with the versitallity of our instrument What Bela Fleck is for the Banjo, is Paul Franklin for the steel. If those guys can't force a breakthrough, no-one can, IMHO

)

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 21 Jan 2002 11:20 am

My question on this subject is why do producers or record company execs believe that steel guitar would inhibit record sales? Is it gut instinct or have they actually done some market research?
Dave

Post by **Joey Ace** » 21 Jan 2002 12:14 pm

I'm thinking of Clapton's "Tears in Heaven".

JD played steel on that mega-hit. Most listeners remember it as a great song, but have no recollection of Steel on it.

I wonder how that got past the Steel=Country bias. I suspect it was Eric's clout and musical sense.

Great to hear your comments Paul.

[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 21 January 2002 at 02:48 PM.]

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 21 Jan 2002 6:39 pm

I believe everyone is focusing on the wrong issue here. Its not the steel that wins a wider audience, its the voice. With Clapton his voice sounds pop no matter what he sings. On the other hand Lee Ann Womack sounds country no matter how pop the track gets. Its really simple, Country voices need to hide as many country flags as they can to crossover while it enhances the pop singers like Knopfler, Sting, and Clapton to have a few country flags up front for a wider appeal.
Paul

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 21 Jan 2002 7:24 pm

Leave the steel on and get the singer a dialect coach!

Bruce Bouton · Post by **Bruce Bouton** » 21 Jan 2002 7:52 pm

Bucky Baxter is actually playing with Ryan Adams, a young alt-country rocker on Lost Highway Records.Hopefully Bryan will hire a steel player soon!
BB
!

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 21 Jan 2002 9:55 pm

Things seem to be going pretty good for the steel being accepted in rock,pop or whatever music as far as I can tell. I find myself replacing keyboard, string and guitar players pretty often. The steel can pad out the chords with a much more organic sonority than a sampler and then play a melodic phrase with the same feeling as a cello with no problem. I find that I am being used as a "country" inference less and less as my skills increase.

Paul and Bruce,
You guys keep knocking down those doors for steel players so I can stay busy !

Bob

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 22 Jan 2002 6:50 am

Lonestar and Shania are two that I know of that changed the mix for pop radio. Myself, I think they should have let them alone. It almost makes it look like they are ashamed of what they are doing. That's ok because a few years from now , people will be saying Lonestar and Shania who?

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1985 Emmons push-pull, Session 500, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 22 Jan 2002 7:49 am

Before starting the usual trashing of Shania, which is totally unfair (but that's for another thread), didn't they remix LeAnn Womack's "I Hope You Dance". Does anyone know? Did they leave the steel in, or take it out? I can't seem to remember.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 22 Jan 2002 9:52 am

Paul--I agree that the voice has a lot to do with whether it sounds pop or country. A couple of examples I can think of are Hank Williams recording of "Your Cheatin' Heart" and Frankie Lanes recording of the same song. Another example is Karen Carpenters "Cathy's Clown" and Reba McIntyres version of that song. Reba sounds great when she sings country but when she crosses over, you can hear that twang a mile away. Because of the dialect, many traditional fans feel that is is not country music unless the vocalist has that southern tone. Joe

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 22 Jan 2002 10:38 am

As I see, a lot of singers, nice or less nice voice got hits with catchy intro's , and some of them were played by steelguitar, or slideguitar. Not only intro's , but also hooks in songs. When they weren't there and not so pleasant on the ears, they never would become hits.
Examples: Tears in Heaven, Mississippi,Impresse me much (Shania)My Sweet Lord?
Didn't The Stones have a big hit in the far past with Satisfaction, the guitarhook,
or Doug Sahm with the Farfisa organ intro in Whully Bully? What I try to say is that an instrument gives a memorable hook to songs, that catches the ears and produve hitrecords. This also counts for Steelguitar.Don't underestimate the pleasant sound of the steelguitar, but 99% over the people that listen to music, recognice the sound, but don't have any idea what causes this. And I don't see that as country-flags

JJ[This message was edited by Johan Jansen on 22 January 2002 at 10:59 AM.]

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 22 Jan 2002 3:45 pm

Interesting topic. I find myself in the category of those wanting to play more music on steel that's outside the realm of "country" though I love it as well. I play Western Swing and old pop tunes on my S12U guitar instead of the usual lap steel or Stringmaster type axe.

I got hooked back in the '60s when songs like Teach Your Children, Rainbows all Over Your Blues (John Sebastian), Someday Soon came along and succeeded as pop tunes with the PSG sound. Lately, I've been intrigued by the steel sound in Shawn Colvin's music, the aforementioned Tears in Heaven and some others. How about the sacred steel stuff? Great huh. Anybody heard King Sunny Ade from Nigeria with his pedal steel player? Most people don't have any idea of the capabilities of our instrument despite the wonderful work of Paul, Buddy, etc. There's always hope.

--JR

Neale Tracy · Post by **Neale Tracy** » 26 Jan 2002 6:31 am

I totally agree with Paul on this one.
Its the voice that determines the musical style.
I have just got the latest Elton John CD and the songs sound more country than many "real country" songs but because Elton is a pop singer, non country fans accept it as just good music.A big pop star over here is Robbie Williams, he had a recent big hit in our pop charts, it featured a lot of steel but I have heard absolutely no mention of it sounding country by anyone.
I have recently completed a session with a succesfull indie pop band called Stone Foundation, it sounds great and no one has used the country word. The fans love it, their average age is 21 years old.
Yes Paul, your absolutely right, the voice not the instrument.....

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Franklin S10
Fender Strat
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