Did/do you have a teacher?

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 22 Dec 2001 6:11 am

I read where a lot of the forumites have or did have a teacher when starting out. I just wondered how many and what was the going rate? How long did the session last?

Kenny Forbess · Post by **Kenny Forbess** » 22 Dec 2001 6:50 am

I got my first E9th lessons here in Memphis from a picker by the name of Johnny Brunner, who was a freind of John Hughey.
That was back when Conway first hit the country charts with # 1 records ,
Hughey would show Brunner some of his stuff and Brunner would show it to me,I was already playing the self-taught method, but they put me on the right road to playing.
(the lessons were free and worth every penny)
I'm still not finished thanking them both.

I got my first C6th lessons in San Antonio Tex. from Denny Mathis. (I'm sure lots of pickers know of him, I know B Bailey does)
He worked out of a music store there that sold MSA's.
Lessons were $4.00 for thirty minutes, I usually took an hour.
wish I could get some more of those these days for that price.

I got

------------------
kenny
66 Emmons 8&7
D-10 Derby 9&8

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 22 Dec 2001 8:34 am

I have never had a formal lesson on the steel guitar in my life, but I regret that it wasn't available when I started playing.

Formal lessons were not available when I bought my first steel, a one-neck, six-stringer. A "suggested" tuning and a book with some Hawaiian music (that I couldn't read) came with it.

There were no "standardized" tunings in those days so you were basically on your own....hearing something on the radio or something played live by someone, and then sitting down and trying to "guess" how they were tuned and what they were doing.

Those were the "experimental" days when nearly everyone used a different tuning and after they found a tuning (by trial & error)they wanted to use, most players very zealously guarded it and kept it secret from everyone else......even going to the extreme of not leaving their guitar unattended without first "detuning" two or three strings so someone couldn't walk by and strum across it to find out their "secret" tuning.

Because of that background, it is still amazing to me that players today are so willing to share their knowledge with others, and that there is such an amount of instructional materials available.

I always recommend that new players take advantage of them. If they had been available to me when I started, I would have been a much better player a lot sooner. www.genejones.com

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 22 Dec 2001 9:02 am

Gene Jones- Just what you said! That is exactly the way it was in the old old days.

You might say, I stole my tunings from Alvino Rey's records and seeing him in person.

He too was secretive about them. I did the same thing you said.

I went to Indianapolis To the Multi-Kord place, by invitation, and met Jay Harlan.

I brought my Gibson Electra-harp, which had a tuning changer similiar to theirs.

I bought one of their 8 string 6 pedal changers for $50, and built my own guitar.

They took me out to lunch and I didn't want to leave my steel , so I detuned a few strings first,

It was very competitive in those days.

I had a guitar teacher teaching steel in 1936. Also had those Oahu lessons.

Many years later I was teaching. Teaching pedal steel is very stressful for the teacher.

A good teacher , if you can get one that is available, is well worth the money.

Happy Holiday Season...al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 22 December 2001 at 09:07 AM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 22 Dec 2001 10:09 am

Scotty was my first steel teacher. He has asked me not to tell anybody that.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 22 Dec 2001 11:03 am

Jim.....he probably also told you that he doesn't know where Yukon, Oklahoma, is either.....Don't believe him!

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 22 Dec 2001 11:14 am

I had 2 great lessons from a fellow named Dave Zeiglar. The first was supposed to last 2 hours. I arrived at his house a 2 PM. At 7 PM we took a short break to eat, and then resumed. At 10 PM I stopeed, telling Dave he had showed me so much stuff I couldn't absorb any more. he protested that He had so much more that he had to show me. At his insistance, I came back a few weeks later for a second.

BTW he was so happy to have somebody he could talk about the steel guitar to, who actually understood what he was talking about, that he didn't charge me.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 22 Dec 2001 12:37 pm

I just wondered how many and what was the going rate? How long did the session last?

...just one, teachers are hard enough to find without looking for more than one..

...going rate $30 per hour...

...usually one hour...

..continuity is the key, don't let much time pass between lessons, keep 'em going on a regular basis..

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 22 Dec 2001 1:29 pm

I was on my own. Back in the early 50's when I started on lap steel and then in 1969 when I bought a Peadal Steel. I did buy a Sho-Bud instruction book (the original single volume version) and the Sho-Bud/Neil Flanz lick album but otherwise I was on my own. However, with the early lap steel knowledge and playing bass and lead guitar for 10 years I wasn't completely green when I started on Pedals.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 22 Dec 2001 1:37 pm

I had a number of hands-on teachers after age 7. The most exceptional teacher of all however, has been Billy Robinson & Jerry Byrd. Neither of them have any idea of what they taught me or how very influential their teachings have been for me.
Had it not been for Billy on Saturday nights with Red Foley on the Opry, my musical learnings would surely have been stunted. At about that same time, I discovered Jerry Byrd and from first hearing "Moonland" and "Steelin' Is His Business".......over a local dj program, he has been both my instructor and mentor. Jerry has never heard me play and would likely be embarassed over what I play, however, in the olden days, taking a tuning and digging out what I heard on the radio/records was THE ONLY WAY.
Speedy West and J.Murphy also gave me a great deal to study and analyze.
In that manner, I did manage to learn what a tuning was made of; where things/signature sounds were located at; how to find WHY the artist did it this way instead of that way. It has been a life-long day to day challenge for me, but I wouldn't trade it for anything.
Jeff Newman taught me a great deal at the several Seminars that I was fortunate enough to attend.
Yes! In the olden days..."secret tunings"; covering pedal rods with a hanging curtin or birdseye maple screen; and many other "secret keeping techniques" was what steel guitar was all about.
I have old autograph books with dozens of tunings written in the margins from touring steel guitarist.......
No matter how good the teacher....I do believe there was a definite value in personally DIGGING OUT the guts of a tuning
and then putting it to work. A lot of folks these days seem to be seeking instant gratification (even in playing steel guitar)
by way of gadgets, tabletures, and the like.
There are no real short cuts. REMEMBER:
A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.

Buck Dilly · Post by **Buck Dilly** » 22 Dec 2001 2:14 pm

I have had one person guiding and helping me over the last 25 years, but have not always had actual lessons. Seek out a living, breathing, human to sit across from you as you play-practice. He/she does not need to play the steel, but needs to understand music. Piano players are great, and horn players. Each will offer different dimensions and benefits. Buck

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 22 Dec 2001 2:47 pm

.......Buck, for me that person you speak of has been my wife, who has gently pointed out to me the correct road to follow, both musically and otherwise, for all of these many years..... www.genejones.com

Bill Crook · Post by **Bill Crook** » 22 Dec 2001 3:03 pm

George Edwards.......

(IMHO) the best !!

I studied under George for 2 years untill I had to quit.(due to health reasons) I cannot say enought about this gentleman as a teacher or person. I still use the tapes we made of the practice sessions to keep abreast of the many,many things we went over.

I cannot quote a price because I feel that George undercut his services for me,knowing that I wasen't able to afford the current fees in the "Nashville" area.
[This message was edited by Bill Crook on 22 December 2001 at 03:06 PM.]

George Rozak · Post by **George Rozak** » 22 Dec 2001 5:05 pm

Back about 1969 or 1970, I bought my first steel - a Fender 400. I took a few lessons off of a guy by the name of Denton Walker, who'd only been playing a few years himself. The going rate was $3 a lesson, & they usually lasted for one or two hours. This only lasted a few months as he went on the road with a local group and then moved back to Alabama back in that same time frame. I lost track of him after that. I know Russ Wever here on the forum knew Denton back in those days. Anyone else here know Denton's whereabouts today?

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 22 Dec 2001 5:16 pm

My Dad bought a pedal steel in 1971 when I was 12. He taught me to play the Old Rugged Cross for a church talent show. He has shown me many things over the years and we continue to swap licks. Such a blessing!
I went through the Winnie Winston book, and still use some of those licks today.

I have taught steel lessons off and on for 20 years. Will be starting a new class sometime in January, if you know any one in my area.

Reggie
www.countryvillage.com

Bill Myrick · Post by **Bill Myrick** » 22 Dec 2001 5:34 pm

My first steel was in "69" too and like George, a Fender 400, which I got from Scotty. I lived about 85 miles north of St. Louis so pretty much on my own. Incidently, that 400 was tuned in D9th not E9th. Scotty's book Anthology Of A Steel (or something like that) was about all I had back then. I remember the maintenance shop where I worked fashioned me a pair of knee levers and I had sheep skin on those suckers.
It was all cable pull. Well---hey !!! the 55 Chev was great when it came out, right !!!

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 22 Dec 2001 8:18 pm

I hope when we get moved down to Surprise next May I'm able to find an instructor. I'll gladly pay $30.00 an hour.

BC.

Merv Dawson · Post by **Merv Dawson** » 22 Dec 2001 9:22 pm

My first lessons were from Raleigh Siglar at the old Liberty Hotel in Jacksonville, Texas. Mr. Siglar was aso teaching Bobby Garrett and Al Petty at the same time. He must have spent more time with them than he did me. Bobby and Al also gave me a few lessons. That didn't take too well either.

Steven Knapper · Post by **Steven Knapper** » 22 Dec 2001 9:53 pm

I am still taking lessons from Blackie Taylor after a year. He took lessons from Al Petty years ago. I have been playing rhythm in bar bands, etc for over 30 years (not steel). When I switch from 10 to 12 string in a couple of weeks, I figure it will be another year of lessons, but at least I can go out and make $$$ now with my GFI S10. Like I was told when I started, Al Petty made a musician out of me, and I will make a musician out of you. Blackie had been playing pro for 5 or 6 years before meeting Petty. After a little over a year, I am starting to feel like a musician after all that time as a simi pro. IF I were younger, I would be more inclined to try and do it myself, but at the age of 51, I need to get steel crambed into my thick head and FAST, IE: lessons from a pro. I figger 'ah got maybe 20 more years to get real good at it. That's my story on lessons, even coaching when you hit a plateau (sp?)in your playing as I have done over the years on the 'ol 6 string guitar.
Steve, working on this til I die slumped over my steel.
OH, PS, I pay $50.00 a month for usually an hour, every Monday (once a week).[This message was edited by Steven Knapper on 22 December 2001 at 09:56 PM.][This message was edited by Steven Knapper on 24 December 2001 at 09:45 PM.]

Ken Williams · Post by **Ken Williams** » 22 Dec 2001 11:52 pm

I've never taken any lessons but there was a friend named Gene Simmons that helped me get started on steel. He had his Emmons D10 set up in his college dorm room and I was just down the hall. I fooled around with his guitar for about six months before I bought one for myself. He helped me learn some of the basic positions. Needless to say, we didn't get much schoolwork done.

Ken

Chris Brooks · Post by **Chris Brooks** » 23 Dec 2001 12:56 am

John Bidasio at Valley Arts in LA, 1972, got me started. He was playing a ZB.

And Kenny, I cornered Denny Mathis for a few lessons while in San Antone, too. After that I bought an MSA.

Chris

Mike Kowalik · Post by **Mike Kowalik** » 23 Dec 2001 7:11 am

I too took lessons from the great Denny Mathis at Dellview Music.Also took some C6th lessons from the store owner,Don Pack,who is an awesome C6th player.Denny plays alot with a rockabilly band called "Two Tons of Steel"..plays a triple neck Fender..saw him play it at a Bob Wills birthday show in March...man it was WAY COOL!!!!!!

Larry Cohen · Post by **Larry Cohen** » 23 Dec 2001 9:37 am

Took lessons from a wonderful gentleman...Ralph Hanzel in Milwaukee, WI...what an incredible teacher, so patient...you'd pay for a half hour, he'd give you an hour at least...Ralph was better then great...had tone, like you wouldn't believe..and such style

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 23 Dec 2001 10:53 am

For Mike Kowalik or anyone who might know:

A Denny Mathis was mentioned in your post as a former steel teacher of yours. I had not heard this name before, but I have a vinyl album entitled "Tex Williams at the Mint", and the steel player credited on the record is a Kenny Mathis...the guitar player is Glen Campbell.

I am wondering if Denny & Kenny may be the same, or if they are related. Anyone know?

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 23 Dec 2001 11:51 am

I never really had a teacher but I´m glad that I kind of had a "coach". I´m talking about Faron Kelf, an English guy who has been living here in Germany for many years and is, IMO, one of the greatest and probably most underrated steel players of our time.
He never really taught me a lot of licks and stuff like that, but gave me some VERY important advice about right and left hand technique and, especially, blocking, in the beginning. Without that, I doubt I would have been able to realize that sound I had been hearing in my head - which is somewhat different from what most players tend do do these days. (No offense intended!)
As for learning licks and tunes etc., I stick to the same method that I had been successfully using for years on guitar and that Faron used when he started, too - listening to records over and over. I consider myself fortunate to have understood how the instrument works - chord and scale positions, pedal and knee lever combinations etc. - very quickly. The difficulty for me lies mostly in technique.