Todays New Country with steel

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 20 Nov 2001 8:33 pm

Larry,
Both players are 22 to 24 years old.I edited the earlier post to hopefully make more sense.-----bb[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 20 November 2001 at 08:43 PM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 20 Nov 2001 9:39 pm

Sorry, bb
I was lost for a moment. Now I got it.

Who ARE these guys? Are they playing with anyone around town or on the road? I'd really like to hear them. I believe they are rare -- there aren't that many really knocked out younger players I've run into.

LTB[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 20 November 2001 at 09:41 PM.]

Buck Reid · Post by **Buck Reid** » 20 Nov 2001 10:50 pm

I know this is an open forum but all you guys who live elsewhere have no business even stating an opinion here! Believe me i'm saying what alot of guys are thinking and wanting to say! No disrespect intended but this business is not about the best and most qualfied players! When you talk about the "Music Business" vs. the promotion of the Pedal Steel guitar.....you're talking about two different things! Good night

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 20 Nov 2001 11:16 pm

Sorry Larry,to post their names would violate their trust.As you know when your new to Gnashtown it's not a good idea to make waves.In short I could only cause them problems. -------bb

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 21 Nov 2001 12:33 am

I don't think we're "running the young players off" by stating that some of the old stuff (and that decade of the '60s) was really a "golden age" for the PSG. Sure, different people have different points of view, but consider this...

When I was getting into steel, I would listen to the old timers from the previous era. They all harped on Jerry Byrd, Don Helms, Speedy West, Alvino Rey, and a host of others. But you wouldn't catch me trying to tell them that "this new Emmons Guy blows them older guys away!" I didn't care if they were old dudes, and they had an attitude. When I got the chance, I would pick their brain for anything they could show me! There's a lot of wisdom and knowledge that comes from age, and it's sometimes more valuable than what's "hot" right now.

Now, don't get me wrong...there's sometimes a lot of "smugness" on both sides, but the young players really need what they could learn from some of the "old dudes"...more so than the "old dudes" need to learn from the younger players.

Maybe I can give you an analogy.

Can you imagine a just starting (young) jazz player saying..."I ain't going to listen to or play that old crap featuring Charlie Parker, Count Basie, or Duke Ellington. I'm going to play more modern stuff!"

Wouldn't you think he's "missing out"?

Think about it.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 21 Nov 2001 1:10 am

Donnie, if your post was meant for me.Let me start by saying the (old guys) I was referring to are not the old super pros.Speedy,Buddy,Curley, etc etc. I have NEVER seen one of the old super pros take a stab at a young player.At least not here.The old guys I was referring to are the guys who refuse to admit there's been any decent steel played in the last ten years.They seem to only appreciate things that were done in the 60's.
The young players I know,the good ones at least, all have the up most respect for all the greats.If it was great 40 years ago it will always be great.Any good player should recognize this.I like a lot of the newer stuff.But I still dig Emmons cut of Red Wing and Country Boy Bounce he did around 1955. I feel the same about all the greats,Weldon,Doug,Hal,I could go on forever.Bottom line,can I not dig the great playing from the 60's and still dig the great playing Paul Franklin,Tommy White and many others are doing today? Sometimes it feels as if one has to choose.BTW I'm an old guy too.40 and counting. --------bb[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 21 November 2001 at 01:39 AM.]

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 21 Nov 2001 6:15 am

Quote from Buck Reid

"I know this is an open forum but all you guys who live elsewhere have no business even stating an opinion here!"

huh? So only folks who live in Nashville should have opinions or post in the forum?

That's a...uhhm, rather unique statement, sure to win you tons of friends.

------------------
Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 21 Nov 2001 8:13 am

Buck,
Since you've opened that can of worms, I'd like to hear you chew on them for a while.

You're right -- musical ability (however you measure it) may not be the most important asset those who write the checks are looking for. Maybe a good attitude and willingness to do what they ask may somehow creep into that job description. But then, they hold the pen that writes those checks and, like it or not, the musical community who want to make a living in their world have to conform to their standards.

The guys who get the lion's share of the work in Nashville may not be the best players in the world but they are certainly AMONG the best in my estimation. That's a purely subjective call and each person has a right to an opinion. It's unfortunate that everyone who plays steel guitar in Nashville doesn't make 6 or 7 figure incomes, but some were in the right place at the right time and are willing to do what's necessary to keep the job. I can't blame them for that, can you?

Since you apparently qualify as one who can tell it like it is, please grace us with your wisdom.

LTB[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 21 November 2001 at 08:37 AM.]

Greg Derksen · Post by **Greg Derksen** » 21 Nov 2001 8:41 am

Dire Straits, " On every street"
Brent Mason's " Hotwired "
The "Players"
Vince Gill's "When I call your Name" check
the credit's!
Master on both neck's, extremely precise,
Plays with feeling and in TUNE,

Na the producers and musical peers are ALL
stupid, its politics and brown nosing that
gets you those sessions. I got it now, even
if I'm not from Nashville, Greg
[This message was edited by Greg Derksen on 21 November 2001 at 08:45 AM.]

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 21 Nov 2001 8:49 am

Hi Buck,
I don't understand what you are trying to say. Please , can you explain yourself?
Thanks, Johan

Buck Reid · Post by **Buck Reid** » 21 Nov 2001 9:16 am

OK,so my statement about opinions was a little strong. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. And i aplogize if i've offended anyone.However i didn't put anybody down. I thought the topic here was "Todays New Country With Steel". It's a little frustrating living and working here and turning on the CMA Awards to find the Steel Guitar virtually non existent. Maybe it's a cycle that the instrument seems to go through every few years,who knows? I know that it is the best players that really promote the instrument and unfortunately they don't always get the calls. And to Larry,i'm not used to anyone paying attention to what i have to say and didn't realize i was opening up a can of worms.

Kevin Post · Post by **Kevin Post** » 21 Nov 2001 9:19 am

Blame the consolidation of Country Radio. Good music is recorded and rejected every day.

There oughta be a law against program directors who aren't musicians.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 21 Nov 2001 9:55 am

Kevin has a good point. As soon as country music went from being a cottage industry to being a global business, all the rules changed. I sometimes feel fortunate that I moved AWAY from Nashville and chose NOT to play music for a living when I was 21 years old.

As a member of management in a major pharmaceutical company that was started by an old country doctor and has become a multinational competitor in a challenging commercial sector, I can see similar trends in a very different business area. Rather than a family's values, the business decisions are dictated by stock prices and market capitalization.

Nobody gives a hoot about steel guitar in the country music business EXCEPT as pertains to its ability to sell records. It's a double edged sword. On one side, including a steel makes a pop song sound (a little) country. On the other side, some fans (read: record buyer$) are turned off by 'that whiney thing', even though they're not qute sure what it is. The producers are petrified that they'll alienate any portion of their shrinking market share. I can't blame them -- they have a job to do: SELL RECORDS (period). From our perspective, the integrity of the music has suffered.

Buck, no disrespect intended toward you -- I personally admire your playing and am very interested in what you have to say. I know what guys like you and Cass and Hinson and many others are facing. The world is a different place than it was when you decided to make a living playing music. I'd come to hear you guys play anytime.

LTB[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 21 November 2001 at 09:57 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 21 Nov 2001 3:14 pm

I guess you could categorize me as an "old dude"!

Bobby, my post was not directed at you, or anyone in particular. It was a general observation, and that's all. I realize that there are truly great steelmen today. But the point that some (younger?) players are constantly bringing up is that we should all "forget the past, and just play what's hot today".

Some of the people who spout these sentiments are just too _______(fill in your own adjective) to admit that the sheer volume of players and styles heard on records in the '60s was a high-water mark for the pedal steel guitar...that may never be surpassed!

We used to be able to hear a dozen or more steelers constantly on popular recordings, but for the past 10-15 years, the music has been dominated by only 3 or 4. Now, some people here obviously think we should be really glad about this, as long as those 3 or 4 are excellent players.

But I'm not one of 'em!

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 21 November 2001 at 03:15 PM.]

Buck Reid · Post by **Buck Reid** » 22 Nov 2001 10:04 am

Steve: just want to clarify that i am referring the subject matter and not the forum itself. I think actually we are in agreement.
Larry: i appreciate you outlining the criteria for our job description,i wasn't aware of that.

Dave Burr · Post by **Dave Burr** » 27 Nov 2001 6:28 pm

I think that there is really good "classic" sounding steel being recorded today... It's just not making it to radio for you to hear it, therefore, you're not aware of it. I'll give you a couple of really good examples... LeAnn Womack's last CD contained a song called "Lonely Too" that never stood a chance of mainstream radio airplay and it contains one of the finest and most creative steel guitar solo's that I've ever heard (Paul Franklin was the player)... Another good example is Mike Johnson's playing on CMA award winner "Too Country" off of Brad Paisley's latest effort "Part II"... Any of Dale Watson's CD's which include players such as Ricky Davis, Lloyd Maines, and Herb Steiner.

My point is that there is really great "traditional" country being made, it's just not being supported by radio.

Respectfully,
Dave Burr

Joel Glassman · Post by **Joel Glassman** » 29 Nov 2001 3:16 pm

Donny wrote:
Can you imagine a just starting (young) jazz player saying..."I ain't going to listen to or play that old crap featuring Charlie Parker, Count Basie, or Duke Ellington. I'm going to play more modern stuff!"

Wouldn't you think he's "missing out"?
------------------------------------------
Yes, because I like roots music. But, in Jazz there are people who want to play music with no reference to what has gone before.
This is valid, though usually the music is a lot less interesting to me. --Joel

Roger Andrusky · Post by **Roger Andrusky** » 29 Nov 2001 9:22 pm

Up until I was 16 years old I played a Ricky lap steel. Then I heard Hal play the intro to Loretta's "One's on the Way" and someone (?) play the intro to Tammy Wynette's "Apartment No. 9" ...and that was when I hit my dad up for a pedal steel! It was simple, and it was pure gold! It was my inspiration at 16 years old!

IMHO...I think there is terrific talent out there to be explored and heard by some very wonderful musicians, BUT I don't think the vocal "talent" (who all sound the same and have absolutely NO CLASS!) knows anything about country. I have read stories about the "old" stars and how particular they were about the sound THEY wanted...not the sound some studio producer wanted.

Bottm line, there's steel talent out there, but those who are the stars of the shows don't have a clue so the producers created what THEY wanted. -----Roger