Who's Experimenting with Sacred Steel Music?

Keith Grubb · Post by **Keith Grubb** » 7 Nov 2001 9:55 am

I was just curious who's caught the Sacred Steel bug these days? I really love to listen to Sonny Treadwell and I've tuned one neck to his E major tuning to try and learn some of his songs. How many people out there are trying out Sacred Steel and what do you think of the results?

Keith[This message was edited by Keith Grubb on 07 November 2001 at 09:56 AM.]

Brad Burch · Post by **Brad Burch** » 8 Nov 2001 5:57 am

Which Sacred Steeler tuning are you working with? How is it working for you? I have been considering trying a ten string version of Robert Randolphs tuning. I have 4 pedals and 5 knees. I got a chance to catch him play and I was just blown away. He was able to flow effortlessly between rock, funk, and jazz and he even threw in quite a few really tasty country licks. I was looking at the Carter site and the comments that b0b has made about about the Sacred Steelers tuning, and I like the aspect of being able to strum "vamps" on the low strings.

Keith Grubb · Post by **Keith Grubb** » 8 Nov 2001 8:30 am

Brad,

I'm working on non-pedal E major: E B E B E G# B E. THis is just your regular old E major chord but with some low bass strings. The E should be around a 0.80 and the B is about 0.68. I actually have to order the low E string at this point because none of the stores I go to have a guitar string that low. I think Sonny Treadwell uses this tuning and you would swear there was a bass player, but its just him playing on those low stings.

The other non-pedal tuning I've tried is B E D E G# B C# E. This one drops the low low E string. I 'm not very good with either tuning yet but they're fun to work with. I play slide guitar too so its not that big of a switch for me.

That E major tuning with the two low strings seems to limit my playing to up and down single strings while the E 13th tuning seems to allow me to play across the strings. Anyways, I enjoy listening to Sacred Steel and I've enjoyed trying to play it.

Keith

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 8 Nov 2001 8:41 am

I have the sacred steel E7th with a high G# on the front neck of my Williams. I haven't played out with it, but I did one session and the client was pleased. The tune was a lot like "Rocket 88" that was popular a couple of years ago. The "autoharp" approach to chords and the easy access to bluesy slide guitar licks made the tuning a perfect fit for the song.

I was talking to Bob Hoffnar the other day, and he mentioned that lifting the bar when you change positions is a big part of the sacred steel style. I've always done that automatically when playing blues, but apparently some players aren't aware of that technique. We've worked so hard on palm blocking and pick blocking, but ignored left hand blocking.

Lifting and dropping the bar makes a little "click" that would be considered noise in country ballads, but it's a desirable percussive effect in blues. It's kind of like the key click on a Hammond organ. Yet another way to play.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (E7, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic)
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Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 8 Nov 2001 8:43 am

By the way, the artist I played with was Kevin Russell of "Modern Hicks". The CD will be on Jackalope Records (produced by Doug Jayne). I'm not sure of the release date.

Brad Burch · Post by **Brad Burch** » 9 Nov 2001 6:21 am

I was looking at the top 6 strings of Chuck Campbell's ten string tuning with the high G#. They are low to high E, G#, B, D, E, G#. What would be the string gauges for these if I wanted to go with this on my lap steel for some experimentation? I'm terrible at figuring this stuff out.

Keith Grubb · Post by **Keith Grubb** » 9 Nov 2001 8:28 am

Brad,

If you look at the Articles section you will see a short write up that Bob did on gauging strings. For E G# B D E G#: 0.30, 0.24, 0.19, 0.17, 0.15, 0.11. You may want to experiment around a bit though depending on how tight or loose you like your strings.

Keith

Bob Stone · Post by **Bob Stone** » 9 Nov 2001 9:30 am

It's Treadway, not Treadwell.

By the way, Sonny uses a Stevens bar. Like many sacred steelers, he parks his right hand on the bridge cover, lifts the bar a lot and blocks with his left hand. When he plays those walking bass lines they are usually excuted on one string--the 8th. He might walk up 10 frets.

Brad, you may not like the thin tone of a high G# (0.11) on your lap steel. I prefer to go no lighter than E.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 9 Nov 2001 9:41 am

I am glad to see the attention being paid to the Sacred Steel E7 tuning. We used to use that kind of tuning 60 years ago.

Even the old pros such as BE picked up the bar a lot and blocked with the left hand. We all did that a lot in the old days.

I am glad to see that guys are noticing the E7-E6-E13 tunings being played by the Sacred Steelers. Maybe there is hope yet for the Steel Guitar............al

Brad Burch · Post by **Brad Burch** » 9 Nov 2001 11:14 am

Thanks for the replys on string gauges folks! It'll be like having a new toy this weekend.

Keith Grubb · Post by **Keith Grubb** » 9 Nov 2001 1:30 pm

Bob Stone,

Do you know what scale length and string gauges Sonny Treadway (not Treadwell) is using? I've been listening to a couple of his cuts on a Sacred Steel CD and it almost sounds like he's got a low, low E on the bottom.

Keith

Bob Stone · Post by **Bob Stone** » 12 Nov 2001 12:20 pm

Hi Keith,

Sonny's steel is basically a Fender DeLuxe 8 with a Sho Bud headstock fitted to a custom body. As far as I know, all DeLuxe 8s are short scale, 22.5-inch.

Strangely enough, I'm not sure what Sonny's bottom string is. I've never tried to figure out his bass string work. His tuning is E major all the way, but I'm not so sure of the bottom 2 or 3 strings. Offhand I doubt his low string is an octave below a guitar's 6th string. That would be a really fat string--hard to find and would not work too well on a short scale neck. Some of the Jewell Dominion (Sonny's church) guys use two adjacent E strings. Sonny has dropped out of circulation. Glenn Lee's funeral October 2000 was the first time I had seen him since we recorded his album in 1997.

My guess is his 8th string may be a B, with a gauge in the mid .060s, or fatter. High to low:
E-B-G#-E-B-G#-E-B

There are actually quite a few sacred steelers--both pedal and lap--who use that low B. It's about the lowest note (and fattest string) that works, especially on short scale.

Hope this helps.

Keith Grubb · Post by **Keith Grubb** » 12 Nov 2001 12:37 pm

Bob,
Thank you so much for your valuable information. I was just about to take lunch and buy some new strings. Right now I've got a 0.72 as my B string and I have to be careful not to press too hard or it goes sharp. It is very hard to find those fat strings at the local stores.

I am very sorry to hear of Glenn Lee's passing. I always enjoyed listening to his cuts on the first Sacred Steel album.

My Sincerest Thanks,
Keith

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 13 Nov 2001 1:00 pm

I'm not so much experimenting with Sacred Steel music as encorporating it into my playing and composing. For me it's not a matter of learning Sacred Steel 'licks'. I'm fortunate to have had the opportunity play on stage and in the studio with (IMHO) the best musicians in this entire field of music (Chuck, Phil, Darick, and Carlton Campbell), and also have been able to hang out and jam with most of the great younger players like Robert Randolph, Josh Taylor, and many others. I always had this sound in my head of the pedal steel playing like Aretha Franklin sings, and I was amazed to find this group of musicians who actually made that happen.

You can play most of the Sacred Steel single note runs with a standard E9th. But that's only a small part of this style of playing, as anybody who heard Chuck play at Scotty's this year can attest to. The bass runs and rhythm playing is by far the hardest to master with this style, and it's pretty much impossible to do on a standard E9th or C6th. I have one of my Franklins sitting at Paul's house waiting for me to figure out the tuning I am going to put on my E neck. So far b0b's tuning is the best combination that I have seen, but I am playing with a Carter that I own with a standard SS tuning to see what I might be missing with that approach.

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www.tyacktunes.com

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 13 Nov 2001 1:05 pm

About that low B string on the SS tunings, it is really important because you can get the 5th of the E chord open, and also get the dominant 7th of the E at the 3rd fret, and the root of the E at the 5th fret. The box between frets 3 and 5 is used a lot by Sacred Steelers.

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www.tyacktunes.com

Keith Grubb · Post by **Keith Grubb** » 13 Nov 2001 4:47 pm

Hey Dan,
I've noticed the 5th, dom.7th, and root using the low B string also. It seems to me that using an E tuning with a low B and high E gives you a combination of the intervals you would find in a six string low bass A major and E major tuning.

I started out playing blues slide guitar and was never able to transfer the style over to lap steel until I tried out Darrick Campbell's E13th tuning: B E D E G# B C# E. It looks like this tuning would allow you to do some nice bass work as well as being able to play melodies across the strings without a lot of bar movement.

I've enjoyed everyone's comments and insights.

Keith[This message was edited by Keith Grubb on 13 November 2001 at 04:49 PM.]