Emmons Guitars-The Lashley Co.
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
-
Gene Jones
- Posts: 6870
- Joined: 27 Nov 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
- Contact:
-
Bob Carlson
- Posts: 1063
- Joined: 20 Jun 2000 12:01 am
- Location: Surprise AZ.
-
Jody Carver
- Posts: 7968
- Joined: 3 Jan 2001 1:01 am
- Location: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
- Contact:
Gene...Bobbe can talk anybody out of anything
My question is,,,,,when is the US Miltary
Intelligence going to enlist Bobbe to talk
that "bum bin Laden" out of hiding???. Bobbe
can talk anyone out of "anything"
I think Bobbe can handle that cat,,so what Bobbe cant spell,,,,that cat cant speak english. Get after him Gene,,,he needs the
"encouragement" Colin Powell are you listenin????? three legged cat heh?? wished I had a three legged dog ,,,,and wished he would not be able to "lift that leg" he wouldn't have a "leg to stand on" My dogs have three legs,,,,the 4th one is usually
lifted where you cant see it. wet socks during the night in the dark tells the rest of the story.
I always think of the melody to "Strangers In The Night" my version with the same melody is "Wet socks in the Night" Scooby Doo
My question is,,,,,when is the US Miltary
Intelligence going to enlist Bobbe to talk
that "bum bin Laden" out of hiding???. Bobbe
can talk anyone out of "anything"
I think Bobbe can handle that cat,,so what Bobbe cant spell,,,,that cat cant speak english. Get after him Gene,,,he needs the
"encouragement" Colin Powell are you listenin????? three legged cat heh?? wished I had a three legged dog ,,,,and wished he would not be able to "lift that leg" he wouldn't have a "leg to stand on" My dogs have three legs,,,,the 4th one is usually
lifted where you cant see it. wet socks during the night in the dark tells the rest of the story.
I always think of the melody to "Strangers In The Night" my version with the same melody is "Wet socks in the Night" Scooby Doo
-
Jody Carver
- Posts: 7968
- Joined: 3 Jan 2001 1:01 am
- Location: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
- Contact:
-
Pete Burak
- Posts: 6530
- Joined: 2 Oct 1998 12:01 am
- Location: Portland, OR USA
NICK..I'm sorry you missed Blackie while in So Cal..I don't know the size of his store but I can assure you his heart is as big as Dallas..thats got to count for something! I've known Blackie for many years. Hes staight up!
SAGE..In your suggestion that perhaps the mfg'r could sell direct and still establish a relationship with retailer, would the mfg'r agree to sell at "full retail" or mfg'r "suggested list" or be in direct competition with their own retailers and be "cutthroat competitors" ? Then if mfg'r agrees to sell at "full price" would they take trade-ins? Would they provide technicians to set up, make necessary adjustments,and pacify us in general with all our questions and requirements?
Also,how many of them would be available to answer an emergency such as: need loaner amp tonight: need loaner pedal today; overnight this or that..I guess I just see a lot of need for retailers and THEY GOTTA MAKE A PROFIT and can't do that if they are in compitition with mfg'r.
One more thing and I'll shut down;I'm a gen contr and I will not buy supplies from any lumber yard that does any kind of building,concrete work,roofing etc.. I see the steel guitar industry as the same. regards, fred
SAGE..In your suggestion that perhaps the mfg'r could sell direct and still establish a relationship with retailer, would the mfg'r agree to sell at "full retail" or mfg'r "suggested list" or be in direct competition with their own retailers and be "cutthroat competitors" ? Then if mfg'r agrees to sell at "full price" would they take trade-ins? Would they provide technicians to set up, make necessary adjustments,and pacify us in general with all our questions and requirements?
Also,how many of them would be available to answer an emergency such as: need loaner amp tonight: need loaner pedal today; overnight this or that..I guess I just see a lot of need for retailers and THEY GOTTA MAKE A PROFIT and can't do that if they are in compitition with mfg'r.
One more thing and I'll shut down;I'm a gen contr and I will not buy supplies from any lumber yard that does any kind of building,concrete work,roofing etc.. I see the steel guitar industry as the same. regards, fred
-
Herby Wallace
- Posts: 3204
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Sevierville, TN, R.I.P.
- Contact:
Dear Bobbe Seymour,
I very seldom comment about things on the forum, but I couldn't hold back on this. Bobbe, I am with you 100% concerning the dealer situation. I have operated a small steel guitar show since 1979 and it is getting harder and harder to exist. I am on a much small scale than you, but many times I don't know if it is all worth it or not. I can give someone a price on an item, and then some company will sell direct and beat my price by $10.00 just to make the sale, so I just let them have it. I won't continue with this topic so I don't say too much, but again, Bobbe, everything you said, I back up completely.
Herby Wallace
------------------
I very seldom comment about things on the forum, but I couldn't hold back on this. Bobbe, I am with you 100% concerning the dealer situation. I have operated a small steel guitar show since 1979 and it is getting harder and harder to exist. I am on a much small scale than you, but many times I don't know if it is all worth it or not. I can give someone a price on an item, and then some company will sell direct and beat my price by $10.00 just to make the sale, so I just let them have it. I won't continue with this topic so I don't say too much, but again, Bobbe, everything you said, I back up completely.
Herby Wallace
------------------
-
Bob Carlson
- Posts: 1063
- Joined: 20 Jun 2000 12:01 am
- Location: Surprise AZ.
Wow!
Billy, I feel for you clear out hear In Arizona. After reading that you were out three thousand dallars, I thought what would I do If that happened to me.
Then I remembed why a company gets Incorperated. It means they can collect money In advance for a product and then file B R and you can't sue them for anything but what was included In the corperation. His personal property you can't touch.
So the only way you can get your money back Is If there Is any left after all other debts are paid. I think. I don't know for sure but I think thats the way It works.
Again Billy, I sure feel for you. The only advice I can give you Is to pray for the strenth to for give him. Works for me.
Bob Carlson
Billy, I feel for you clear out hear In Arizona. After reading that you were out three thousand dallars, I thought what would I do If that happened to me.
Then I remembed why a company gets Incorperated. It means they can collect money In advance for a product and then file B R and you can't sue them for anything but what was included In the corperation. His personal property you can't touch.
So the only way you can get your money back Is If there Is any left after all other debts are paid. I think. I don't know for sure but I think thats the way It works.
Again Billy, I sure feel for you. The only advice I can give you Is to pray for the strenth to for give him. Works for me.
Bob Carlson
-
Jody Carver
- Posts: 7968
- Joined: 3 Jan 2001 1:01 am
- Location: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
- Contact:
Herby,,,in reply to your comments. The mail order companies play hell on most all small
business,,not only the Music Industry.
As a Fender rep I asked a Fender dealer not to
advertise Fender in his "mail order catalogue". The problem,,,is that the legal "eagles" came into the picture and tried to make a "federal case of it". There is no "cure for this". I have tried many options to stop this,,but I have failed.
MusicMan under the leadership of Leo Fender& Tom Walker found a temporary solution. All salesman were to ask if the dealer prospect had in fact a "mail order catalogue" It was
easy to avoid that problem if the prospect dealer did have a mail order setup.
I simply would say we are backed up on back orders,,and as we dont have a nationwide service for "warranty" ,it would be impossible for MusicMan to ask a MusicMan dealer in the state or town that the customer
purchased through mail order to service a product that he did not sell,,,and we want all dealers to service the customers they sell products to.,,,,and we could and would not service the product through anyone other than the MusicMan dealer who sold the product.
If that being the case,where as an example a customer from,,," where ever USA" purchases a product from a mail order source,,,,the product would have to be shipped back to the dealer who sold the product in the first place. All shipping charges both ways to and from are the sole responsibility of the mail
order source or the customer who made the purchase from the mail order dealer.
Music Man DID NOT re-imburse dealers for warranty repairs,,,they would have to service the product out of the profit they made from the sale.
I would explain to the dealer that he should
keep the price of the guitar or amp or whatever with a profit margin to allow for the cost of repairs,,I think I called it an
"escrow account" on "account" we are not responsible for charges for repair.
We would however repair at no charge anything
purchased from a Music Man dealer,,,,if returned to Anaheim California,,,however the customer was responsible for shipping charges
both to and from.
This discouraged most all mail order dealers
they couldnt't be bothered with the red tape.
I was told many times to "stick it" my answer
was "I have no room" at this time,,,I have others who have made that request before you and there is a waiting line.
FYI,,,I was not selling ANY MusicMan products
to any dealers on West 48th Street Manhattan.
My reason???? I didnt feel it was fair to them to ask them to alter their business practice and not mail order anything Music Man sold, I had many dealers on that street who were personal friends of mine whom I sold Fender to for many years. We remained friends in spite of this,,,although it did cause hard feelings,,but it did solve the problem.
At the end of The MusicMan story ,,I was probably one of the very few if not the only one who DID NOT SELL to dealers on West 48th
St. 48th Street was just known for discounting but there were many others in samll towns guilty of the same thing 48th street was known for,,,,mail order and discounting. Its not the state or the town,its the nature of the business as well as the "greedy dealer who wanted the world as his marketing area..
MusicMan closed its doors,,,I was the "hero"
but its too bad we "lost the war" you know the old saying" I won the argument,,,,,but lost the sale.
Now that this speech is over..I hope this sheds some light on your comments. I agree that today a small dealer cannot survive in the "world of mega dicount and mail order houses. That is the primary reason MusicMan failed,,,we didnt have the "big guns" as dealers,,but when the same small dealer supported the companies that were selling to mail order operations,,it showed me that my efforts were in vain. They say "Good Guys Finish Last" I dont know how good Iam but I did "finish last"
You are a great player,,no one can take that from you. If you are unaccustomed to my long posts,,,this is what Iam like,,,I can make a "short story long" I wish that were true under all circumstances. Be well....
business,,not only the Music Industry.
As a Fender rep I asked a Fender dealer not to
advertise Fender in his "mail order catalogue". The problem,,,is that the legal "eagles" came into the picture and tried to make a "federal case of it". There is no "cure for this". I have tried many options to stop this,,but I have failed.
MusicMan under the leadership of Leo Fender& Tom Walker found a temporary solution. All salesman were to ask if the dealer prospect had in fact a "mail order catalogue" It was
easy to avoid that problem if the prospect dealer did have a mail order setup.
I simply would say we are backed up on back orders,,and as we dont have a nationwide service for "warranty" ,it would be impossible for MusicMan to ask a MusicMan dealer in the state or town that the customer
purchased through mail order to service a product that he did not sell,,,and we want all dealers to service the customers they sell products to.,,,,and we could and would not service the product through anyone other than the MusicMan dealer who sold the product.
If that being the case,where as an example a customer from,,," where ever USA" purchases a product from a mail order source,,,,the product would have to be shipped back to the dealer who sold the product in the first place. All shipping charges both ways to and from are the sole responsibility of the mail
order source or the customer who made the purchase from the mail order dealer.
Music Man DID NOT re-imburse dealers for warranty repairs,,,they would have to service the product out of the profit they made from the sale.
I would explain to the dealer that he should
keep the price of the guitar or amp or whatever with a profit margin to allow for the cost of repairs,,I think I called it an
"escrow account" on "account" we are not responsible for charges for repair.
We would however repair at no charge anything
purchased from a Music Man dealer,,,,if returned to Anaheim California,,,however the customer was responsible for shipping charges
both to and from.
This discouraged most all mail order dealers
they couldnt't be bothered with the red tape.
I was told many times to "stick it" my answer
was "I have no room" at this time,,,I have others who have made that request before you and there is a waiting line.
FYI,,,I was not selling ANY MusicMan products
to any dealers on West 48th Street Manhattan.
My reason???? I didnt feel it was fair to them to ask them to alter their business practice and not mail order anything Music Man sold, I had many dealers on that street who were personal friends of mine whom I sold Fender to for many years. We remained friends in spite of this,,,although it did cause hard feelings,,but it did solve the problem.
At the end of The MusicMan story ,,I was probably one of the very few if not the only one who DID NOT SELL to dealers on West 48th
St. 48th Street was just known for discounting but there were many others in samll towns guilty of the same thing 48th street was known for,,,,mail order and discounting. Its not the state or the town,its the nature of the business as well as the "greedy dealer who wanted the world as his marketing area..
MusicMan closed its doors,,,I was the "hero"
but its too bad we "lost the war" you know the old saying" I won the argument,,,,,but lost the sale.
Now that this speech is over..I hope this sheds some light on your comments. I agree that today a small dealer cannot survive in the "world of mega dicount and mail order houses. That is the primary reason MusicMan failed,,,we didnt have the "big guns" as dealers,,but when the same small dealer supported the companies that were selling to mail order operations,,it showed me that my efforts were in vain. They say "Good Guys Finish Last" I dont know how good Iam but I did "finish last"
You are a great player,,no one can take that from you. If you are unaccustomed to my long posts,,,this is what Iam like,,,I can make a "short story long" I wish that were true under all circumstances. Be well....
-
Jody Carver
- Posts: 7968
- Joined: 3 Jan 2001 1:01 am
- Location: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
- Contact:
-
Tom Hodgin
- Posts: 208
- Joined: 3 Sep 2000 12:01 am
- Location: greensboro, n.c. u.s.a.
Watch out Ron jr. the sharks are circling..
I am a thirty year steeler..and according to this forum, I have been playing somewhat flat and out of tune for most of that period..
Do you guys ever read what you are writing on this forum???
Just how big of a demand do you think there is for steel guitars in this country?? Even Bobby S. says there are only a very few retailers in the U.S.A..The Forum has said there are about 26,000 of us steelers world wide....NO dealer could expect to surrive on SG sales and service alone..Especially working on 10% profit..I've been in the retail business for thirty-two years..You must have at least a twenty-two percent markup to keep the doors open..
Since I live close to Emmons Guitar, I have know Ron Sr.for many years..He has been selling guitars out of that store,as retail sales, for at least that long..where was the gripe then???
How about Carter.? or Franklin..and I would guess all the others..I bought my Marlen from the store where they were made..
You seem to be missing the point, either on purpose or by an oversight..I PAID RETAIL GUYS..Two years ago I bought my first Emmons..I PAID RETAIL..What in the world is wrong with a dealer selling his product in his RETAIL OUTLET ???? Bobby Seymore sells his CD's in HIS music store..AT RETAIL..
Do you guys remember Marvin Hudson?? His new Emmons cost $5,500..Does that sound like Emmons gave him a break ???
Many dealers of all types of merchandise are doing this..
If anyone of you need a blame t-shirt or hat, or what-ever that bad just let me know and I'll go over there and get it and send it to you personally...
Ron jr. has a tough enough row to hoe..He's up to his "you know what" in SG orders..It still takes a set amount of time to build a Emmons...
We all love what we do...lets support all our SG manufactors...and Bobby S..it's ok to raise that profit a little, we need you to stay in business.... tom hdogin
I am a thirty year steeler..and according to this forum, I have been playing somewhat flat and out of tune for most of that period..
Do you guys ever read what you are writing on this forum???
Just how big of a demand do you think there is for steel guitars in this country?? Even Bobby S. says there are only a very few retailers in the U.S.A..The Forum has said there are about 26,000 of us steelers world wide....NO dealer could expect to surrive on SG sales and service alone..Especially working on 10% profit..I've been in the retail business for thirty-two years..You must have at least a twenty-two percent markup to keep the doors open..
Since I live close to Emmons Guitar, I have know Ron Sr.for many years..He has been selling guitars out of that store,as retail sales, for at least that long..where was the gripe then???
How about Carter.? or Franklin..and I would guess all the others..I bought my Marlen from the store where they were made..
You seem to be missing the point, either on purpose or by an oversight..I PAID RETAIL GUYS..Two years ago I bought my first Emmons..I PAID RETAIL..What in the world is wrong with a dealer selling his product in his RETAIL OUTLET ???? Bobby Seymore sells his CD's in HIS music store..AT RETAIL..
Do you guys remember Marvin Hudson?? His new Emmons cost $5,500..Does that sound like Emmons gave him a break ???
Many dealers of all types of merchandise are doing this..
If anyone of you need a blame t-shirt or hat, or what-ever that bad just let me know and I'll go over there and get it and send it to you personally...
Ron jr. has a tough enough row to hoe..He's up to his "you know what" in SG orders..It still takes a set amount of time to build a Emmons...
We all love what we do...lets support all our SG manufactors...and Bobby S..it's ok to raise that profit a little, we need you to stay in business.... tom hdogin
-
Jody Carver
- Posts: 7968
- Joined: 3 Jan 2001 1:01 am
- Location: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
- Contact:
I think there many misconceptions here. As I
read through this thread,,,I have not the foggiest idea as to what the complaint is about.
First I see where a manufacturer is considering selling "direct"...I am sure that
will take a bit of buiness from existing dealers. That should be worked out between the dealer and the manufacturer.
As the long story I posted above,,,how many retail outlets does the manufacturer have?
How much business do they generate for the product? There are many "avenue's open to discussion here.
How much business will the retail customer lose as a result of the company he deals with
sells direct?
As for the other subject of "mail order" ...
I beleive this is also a "misconception".
Do any of you presently earning a living off of products that you represent subject to losing sales in your immmediate marketing area? to a dealer or mail order house.??
If what I read here is what I understand,,,the dealers who complain about mail order this is a question for you.
If a customer calls your store or shop and wants to order an amplifier as an example,,the brand that you carry,,,,I dont mention names here. Would you sell this customer the amplifier? or would you tell him or her,"I cant ship you the amp" as I dont agree with mail order merchandising" and you would have to come to my store 500 miles away and pick up the amp.
If what I see here is correct to my way of thinking. To solicit business "outside" of the area where your retail store or shop is located is .....consitituted as opening up the can of worms.
I dont undertand what the complaints are about. If you dont want to lose business to mail order sources,,and yet you yourself will sell and ship to a customer out of your vicinity,,,,what is the issue here?
If I can spell my feelings out. I can do it
its okay for me,,,,but you cant do it. However soliciting in an area outside of your
marketing area,,,well thats another ballgame.
I liked the comments as above,,,how much business does steel guitar and related products do overall in this country?
We are talking about next to nothing as compared to products out there such as Peavey,Fender, Gibson, Marshall, etc etc.
I believe this has been "overdone" here on this thread,,,,but it did give me a chance to be heard. At least my wife dont have to listen to me rant and rave.
I have nothing to gain by posting things like this. I have no products to sell,,no CD's to plug,,,I have nothing to gain but offer my opinions,,,I mean no harm to those who are offended by my long stories.
Again,,,I have nothing to gain,,I have NO STORE,,Iam not looking for business, Iam not
looking to sell my cd,,All I will accompolish
here will be,,,controversy among some of you
calling me down for my comments and beliefs.
I have spent most all of my life as a sales rep,I made that clear 1000 times,,I think if nothing else that I have accompolished all those years,,,I do know both sides of the coin, like that saying and I dont mean to sound like a "smart $ss but I have "been there" done that"
many many times.
As for mail order competition ask yourself the same question that you refer to. Would you sell a product you represent to a customer in another state???
Do any of you sell Peavey or Fender amps or guitars to others ,,,other than your "instore" customers?? I see many ad's advertising and soliciting for business on the Forum as well as in the PSGA newsletter to which Iam a member. Does that mean it is okay for you and not for the other guy??
This is the American way fellows,,,free enterprize I think they call it. Sad but true
the "system cannot be beat" I know ,,,I tried
eliminating the mail order problem as a CBS
employee repping Fender,,,I did this in plain sight of CBS,,,,,,they were not at all
appreciative of my ideas regarding this. I did however continue to "crusade" for what I believed it,,,but you know what??? CBS is still there,,,,,Fender is alive and well and here Iam typing my comments which I will pay for,and I am aware of that,but it dont matter
Im only voicing a LONG opinion.
When the day comes that mail order is no more
let me know. If selling direct is a "sin"and
the manufacturer does not sell direct,,let me know. I will open a store and try to squeeze out a living on a 10% profit margin after doing all the hard work,,,been there done that,,,,case closed...edited for spelling...<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 25 September 2001 at 09:26 AM.]</p></FONT>
read through this thread,,,I have not the foggiest idea as to what the complaint is about.
First I see where a manufacturer is considering selling "direct"...I am sure that
will take a bit of buiness from existing dealers. That should be worked out between the dealer and the manufacturer.
As the long story I posted above,,,how many retail outlets does the manufacturer have?
How much business do they generate for the product? There are many "avenue's open to discussion here.
How much business will the retail customer lose as a result of the company he deals with
sells direct?
As for the other subject of "mail order" ...
I beleive this is also a "misconception".
Do any of you presently earning a living off of products that you represent subject to losing sales in your immmediate marketing area? to a dealer or mail order house.??
If what I read here is what I understand,,,the dealers who complain about mail order this is a question for you.
If a customer calls your store or shop and wants to order an amplifier as an example,,the brand that you carry,,,,I dont mention names here. Would you sell this customer the amplifier? or would you tell him or her,"I cant ship you the amp" as I dont agree with mail order merchandising" and you would have to come to my store 500 miles away and pick up the amp.
If what I see here is correct to my way of thinking. To solicit business "outside" of the area where your retail store or shop is located is .....consitituted as opening up the can of worms.
I dont undertand what the complaints are about. If you dont want to lose business to mail order sources,,and yet you yourself will sell and ship to a customer out of your vicinity,,,,what is the issue here?
If I can spell my feelings out. I can do it
its okay for me,,,,but you cant do it. However soliciting in an area outside of your
marketing area,,,well thats another ballgame.
I liked the comments as above,,,how much business does steel guitar and related products do overall in this country?
We are talking about next to nothing as compared to products out there such as Peavey,Fender, Gibson, Marshall, etc etc.
I believe this has been "overdone" here on this thread,,,,but it did give me a chance to be heard. At least my wife dont have to listen to me rant and rave.
I have nothing to gain by posting things like this. I have no products to sell,,no CD's to plug,,,I have nothing to gain but offer my opinions,,,I mean no harm to those who are offended by my long stories.
Again,,,I have nothing to gain,,I have NO STORE,,Iam not looking for business, Iam not
looking to sell my cd,,All I will accompolish
here will be,,,controversy among some of you
calling me down for my comments and beliefs.
I have spent most all of my life as a sales rep,I made that clear 1000 times,,I think if nothing else that I have accompolished all those years,,,I do know both sides of the coin, like that saying and I dont mean to sound like a "smart $ss but I have "been there" done that"
many many times.
As for mail order competition ask yourself the same question that you refer to. Would you sell a product you represent to a customer in another state???
Do any of you sell Peavey or Fender amps or guitars to others ,,,other than your "instore" customers?? I see many ad's advertising and soliciting for business on the Forum as well as in the PSGA newsletter to which Iam a member. Does that mean it is okay for you and not for the other guy??
This is the American way fellows,,,free enterprize I think they call it. Sad but true
the "system cannot be beat" I know ,,,I tried
eliminating the mail order problem as a CBS
employee repping Fender,,,I did this in plain sight of CBS,,,,,,they were not at all
appreciative of my ideas regarding this. I did however continue to "crusade" for what I believed it,,,but you know what??? CBS is still there,,,,,Fender is alive and well and here Iam typing my comments which I will pay for,and I am aware of that,but it dont matter
Im only voicing a LONG opinion.
When the day comes that mail order is no more
let me know. If selling direct is a "sin"and
the manufacturer does not sell direct,,let me know. I will open a store and try to squeeze out a living on a 10% profit margin after doing all the hard work,,,been there done that,,,,case closed...edited for spelling...<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 25 September 2001 at 09:26 AM.]</p></FONT>
-
Dave Diehl
- Posts: 1193
- Joined: 19 Jun 2001 12:01 am
- Location: Mechanicsville, MD, USA
Thanks Bobbe for the reply. I can say out of my 5 guitars one was bought directly from the dealer. Yes, one was from Bobbe also. I have had good experiences with each one and Bobbe has been good to me. I also have to say that, in all the discussion of "Steel Guitar Dealers", I don't believe enough credit is given to Billy Cooper for what he does for steel guitar.
-
Bill Rowlett
- Posts: 848
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Russellville, AR, USA
Hi Jody,
I’ve got to admit that I am baffled about a manufacturer that does not reimburse dealers for in-warranty repairs. As a dealer, I would expect that kind of product support. No wonder the company went under!
I also find it hard to believe that a dealer network would not perform out of warranty repairs on any instrument brought to them. On the rare occasion that I need a dealer to repair something for me out of warranty, I expect to pay him for the time and materials involved in the repair. It would seem to me to be just another way for the dealer to make a profit. I realize that not all dealers have the individual expertise or can afford to maintain a repair facility, but I know several that do. I expect to be able to obtain service from a dealer on a brand name warranty repair anywhere in the country, no matter where I bought it. If the manufacturer can’t support a network such as that, even for mail order items, then I don’t need to own that brand of equipment.
I have a good relation ship with a local retail music dealer. I have bought thousands of dollars in equipment from him over the years. Occasionally, I bring him a piece of equipment that I did not buy from him for his repair expertise. He never refuses to work on it because I bought it used or from another dealer source. It is a small town and I can’t get all the specialized music equipment that I need from him and he knows that. He is a wonderful Peavey dealer, but I have watched him trace a circuit and draw a schematic for my Marshall amps, which he doesn’t carry and that I bought used, so that he could repair a smoked chassis and get me back in business. I pay him for the repairs and we keep a good relationship. The first dealer that refused to support me in this fashion would not get any of my business after that.
I don’t want to offend any one, it just my feelings about the subject.
Bill
I’ve got to admit that I am baffled about a manufacturer that does not reimburse dealers for in-warranty repairs. As a dealer, I would expect that kind of product support. No wonder the company went under!
I also find it hard to believe that a dealer network would not perform out of warranty repairs on any instrument brought to them. On the rare occasion that I need a dealer to repair something for me out of warranty, I expect to pay him for the time and materials involved in the repair. It would seem to me to be just another way for the dealer to make a profit. I realize that not all dealers have the individual expertise or can afford to maintain a repair facility, but I know several that do. I expect to be able to obtain service from a dealer on a brand name warranty repair anywhere in the country, no matter where I bought it. If the manufacturer can’t support a network such as that, even for mail order items, then I don’t need to own that brand of equipment.
I have a good relation ship with a local retail music dealer. I have bought thousands of dollars in equipment from him over the years. Occasionally, I bring him a piece of equipment that I did not buy from him for his repair expertise. He never refuses to work on it because I bought it used or from another dealer source. It is a small town and I can’t get all the specialized music equipment that I need from him and he knows that. He is a wonderful Peavey dealer, but I have watched him trace a circuit and draw a schematic for my Marshall amps, which he doesn’t carry and that I bought used, so that he could repair a smoked chassis and get me back in business. I pay him for the repairs and we keep a good relationship. The first dealer that refused to support me in this fashion would not get any of my business after that.
I don’t want to offend any one, it just my feelings about the subject.
Bill
-
Jody Carver
- Posts: 7968
- Joined: 3 Jan 2001 1:01 am
- Location: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
- Contact:
Bill thanks for your comments,,,however the company did not go "out of business" for the reasons of "warranty" or the fact that they were not re-imbursed. Thats another issue.I cannot go into detail.
We would set up "a" dealer in a marketing area that sometimes would have 5 or 6 stores,they had enough protection re discounting etc. I have never had a problem with that.
As for "warranty repairs" when I was with Fender,,,the dealer was asked to submit the nature of the repair,,and would have to send the defective part or parts back to the company.
There were dealers who would submit a repair charge that was not legit. This was not unusual,,I found that many dealers were submitting false repairs to collect the labor, when they get that small its pretty bad.
MusicMan would not re-imburse any repairs done by an outside source such as Joes' TV and radio Shop,,,,are you aware that there are many repair shops out there that are not familiar with musical instrument repairs,,,sure if they can read a schematic they should be able to repair it right? Wrong
I have found many "catastrophic" repair claims that tuned out not to be so,,,
The average dealer will not object to repairing a product if the nature of the repair is reasonably minor,,but to pay a dealer for an outside source to charge $50.00
to remove a spkr is a bit high dont you agree.??
No dealer ever complained to me or the company,,,those that had Music Man enjoyed the product for its quality and a reasonable
amount of exclusivity.
My question is ,,if a dealer objects to changing a tube or replaceing a speaker then
he should be helped by the manufacturer to assist him whether to return the defective product to the place of origin or have a competant person to do this,It dont take a brain surgeon to perform a spkr or tube replacement,,,,too many dealers in an area changes the discount structure.
Here is a question for you.....would you like to have a product where every Tom Dick & Harry has the same product line,,or would you prefer having a line you could sell without the fear of being undercut???
If a dealer does for example $25.000 a year dealer net,,,will an amount of say $200,00 over the year in repairs be worth having a product that is worth its weight in gold. Or would you rather have to work on a 40% discount because your competitor sells below
your selling price,,,,Oh ,,,what the heck the
company pays for repairs,,,so I dont mind working on a short profit margin caused by a
hungry salesperson who opens everyone in town.
I asked many dealer this question,,,Do you make a good profit on so and so's product...most would say,,,,are you kidding?
How could i make a better profit if the competition gives the "stuff away" but they add,,,,,but they do pay for the repairs on a guitar or amp.
Yeah thats great,,,,,make $50.00 profit if that on a $700.00 retail price amp,,,but then you can get back a $25.00 service charge,some dealers made more on repairs than they did on the sale of a guitar or amp.
Thanks for the re-buttal no harm done....I do think if you were in the picture back then
you would appreciate the circumstances. We did bend the rules many times and I took money out of my pocket to help the dealer pay the repair charges. You can do that with a small company like Music Man was,,,but with
a large company??? I would go broke in one day...Thanks for your e mail...But must add
that is no where the reason MusicMan is no longer,,,there were differences of opinions invlolved within the ownership.
Ernie Ball continues MusicMan today and it is a highly respected and profitable line.
Its only profitable if the dealer wants to make a profit and not "schlock " the prices around and ruin it for the next guy.
You have your point,,but it was a very minor issue with the dealers I had,,,they enjoyed a good profit without the pressure from myself nor the company for MORE business, they set their own goal on sales,,,,,the competition didnt dictate the selling price.
Any more questions?? I will answer if I can.
Like Radio Shack....you have questions??? we have answers....but not really. If I had to do it over again,,,I would have done it the same way. Were you aware that prior to CBS Fender dealers were not re-imbursed for repairs,,,,but that was when Fender dealers were not surrounded by 5 dealers in a marketing area of 200.000 people,,,Thanks for your ideas,,,open a company I'll come to work for you,,,just kidding.....be well. PS
Bill you cannot compare Arizona with a major market that I covered,,,,the salespeople all over the country would refer to the Northeast
NY NJ etc as "the Jungle" or Death Valley.
Do you know the BPI "Buying Power Index" in your marketing area? Most companies use that as a guide,,,,MusicMan didnt,,,,your qualifications for being a dealer was your ability to promote the product amd Music Man
DID pay half of all advertising to the dealer for the promotion of Music Man amps and guitars etc.The other requirments were paying your invoices within the companies credit terms,,,not unreasonable....stocking a reasonable amount of Inventory that would be Financially comfortable for the dealer to not be under the gun as to maintaining an inventory as set by the company or the salesman in the area.
Most companies require a minimun order to be authorized to have the line,,,some no names mentiond have as high as $50.000.00 dollar opening order and the dealer HAS to abide by that policy, we HAD NO minimum requirememts
2 to 3 amps 2 to 3 guitars or a mix of basses etc,,,,maybe an order of $1,500.00 or less,,,sounds fair dont it?
How about investing $50.000.00 or even $25.000.00 and making an overall profit of 10% on the overall investment,,,,then have to come in to your store every day and see all those amps staring you in the face ,,,while the credit department calls and "duns" the dealer for the money.....so what are we talking about a service re-imbursement that amounts to nickels and dimes by comparison,,,,,no comparison on that issue.
Many manufacturers use the retail dealer as the warehouse with tactics like,,,YOU HAVE TO MAINTAIN WHAT WE FEEL YOU MUST HAVE...I didnt buy that,,,I let them buy what they wanted and felt comfortable with..you are mis judging either my words I posted or you were never in that boat.
Never choked a dealer into how much and what to buy,,,,MOST companies do set the limit. You want the line?? Meet the reqiremements.
My requirements??? buy what you feel comfortable with and how much money you want to invest....if you cannot move a product I will take it back and issue you a credit...but the dealer would have to pay the dinner at McDonalds.
Bill,,,,I could go on and one but you dont need that,,,we are still on the same track just as long as the "positives are spelled out rather than the negatives. There were many many more positives than any companyI ever worked for,,,,maybe they were a bit to easy to deal with,if they took a stronger approach to the market as far as looking for more business and not caring about the dealer
with the attitude many companies employ,,,,,
You Bought It,,,,You own it.
This can cause many explanations on my part
but Iam unable to answer too many questions
My wife is after me to walk the dogs,,,,,they too have a "requirement" you know what that is,,,and right now they are due,,,,,gotta run.....thanks again Jody PS
How do you like me so far???? Im really not a bad guy just post too long of a post...ask bOb he can tell you about me.....<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 26 September 2001 at 05:22 PM.]</p></FONT> edited as I forgot something. My password,<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 28 September 2001 at 11:12 AM.]</p></FONT>
We would set up "a" dealer in a marketing area that sometimes would have 5 or 6 stores,they had enough protection re discounting etc. I have never had a problem with that.
As for "warranty repairs" when I was with Fender,,,the dealer was asked to submit the nature of the repair,,and would have to send the defective part or parts back to the company.
There were dealers who would submit a repair charge that was not legit. This was not unusual,,I found that many dealers were submitting false repairs to collect the labor, when they get that small its pretty bad.
MusicMan would not re-imburse any repairs done by an outside source such as Joes' TV and radio Shop,,,,are you aware that there are many repair shops out there that are not familiar with musical instrument repairs,,,sure if they can read a schematic they should be able to repair it right? Wrong
I have found many "catastrophic" repair claims that tuned out not to be so,,,
The average dealer will not object to repairing a product if the nature of the repair is reasonably minor,,but to pay a dealer for an outside source to charge $50.00
to remove a spkr is a bit high dont you agree.??
No dealer ever complained to me or the company,,,those that had Music Man enjoyed the product for its quality and a reasonable
amount of exclusivity.
My question is ,,if a dealer objects to changing a tube or replaceing a speaker then
he should be helped by the manufacturer to assist him whether to return the defective product to the place of origin or have a competant person to do this,It dont take a brain surgeon to perform a spkr or tube replacement,,,,too many dealers in an area changes the discount structure.
Here is a question for you.....would you like to have a product where every Tom Dick & Harry has the same product line,,or would you prefer having a line you could sell without the fear of being undercut???
If a dealer does for example $25.000 a year dealer net,,,will an amount of say $200,00 over the year in repairs be worth having a product that is worth its weight in gold. Or would you rather have to work on a 40% discount because your competitor sells below
your selling price,,,,Oh ,,,what the heck the
company pays for repairs,,,so I dont mind working on a short profit margin caused by a
hungry salesperson who opens everyone in town.
I asked many dealer this question,,,Do you make a good profit on so and so's product...most would say,,,,are you kidding?
How could i make a better profit if the competition gives the "stuff away" but they add,,,,,but they do pay for the repairs on a guitar or amp.
Yeah thats great,,,,,make $50.00 profit if that on a $700.00 retail price amp,,,but then you can get back a $25.00 service charge,some dealers made more on repairs than they did on the sale of a guitar or amp.
Thanks for the re-buttal no harm done....I do think if you were in the picture back then
you would appreciate the circumstances. We did bend the rules many times and I took money out of my pocket to help the dealer pay the repair charges. You can do that with a small company like Music Man was,,,but with
a large company??? I would go broke in one day...Thanks for your e mail...But must add
that is no where the reason MusicMan is no longer,,,there were differences of opinions invlolved within the ownership.
Ernie Ball continues MusicMan today and it is a highly respected and profitable line.
Its only profitable if the dealer wants to make a profit and not "schlock " the prices around and ruin it for the next guy.
You have your point,,but it was a very minor issue with the dealers I had,,,they enjoyed a good profit without the pressure from myself nor the company for MORE business, they set their own goal on sales,,,,,the competition didnt dictate the selling price.
Any more questions?? I will answer if I can.
Like Radio Shack....you have questions??? we have answers....but not really. If I had to do it over again,,,I would have done it the same way. Were you aware that prior to CBS Fender dealers were not re-imbursed for repairs,,,,but that was when Fender dealers were not surrounded by 5 dealers in a marketing area of 200.000 people,,,Thanks for your ideas,,,open a company I'll come to work for you,,,just kidding.....be well. PS
Bill you cannot compare Arizona with a major market that I covered,,,,the salespeople all over the country would refer to the Northeast
NY NJ etc as "the Jungle" or Death Valley.
Do you know the BPI "Buying Power Index" in your marketing area? Most companies use that as a guide,,,,MusicMan didnt,,,,your qualifications for being a dealer was your ability to promote the product amd Music Man
DID pay half of all advertising to the dealer for the promotion of Music Man amps and guitars etc.The other requirments were paying your invoices within the companies credit terms,,,not unreasonable....stocking a reasonable amount of Inventory that would be Financially comfortable for the dealer to not be under the gun as to maintaining an inventory as set by the company or the salesman in the area.
Most companies require a minimun order to be authorized to have the line,,,some no names mentiond have as high as $50.000.00 dollar opening order and the dealer HAS to abide by that policy, we HAD NO minimum requirememts
2 to 3 amps 2 to 3 guitars or a mix of basses etc,,,,maybe an order of $1,500.00 or less,,,sounds fair dont it?
How about investing $50.000.00 or even $25.000.00 and making an overall profit of 10% on the overall investment,,,,then have to come in to your store every day and see all those amps staring you in the face ,,,while the credit department calls and "duns" the dealer for the money.....so what are we talking about a service re-imbursement that amounts to nickels and dimes by comparison,,,,,no comparison on that issue.
Many manufacturers use the retail dealer as the warehouse with tactics like,,,YOU HAVE TO MAINTAIN WHAT WE FEEL YOU MUST HAVE...I didnt buy that,,,I let them buy what they wanted and felt comfortable with..you are mis judging either my words I posted or you were never in that boat.
Never choked a dealer into how much and what to buy,,,,MOST companies do set the limit. You want the line?? Meet the reqiremements.
My requirements??? buy what you feel comfortable with and how much money you want to invest....if you cannot move a product I will take it back and issue you a credit...but the dealer would have to pay the dinner at McDonalds.
Bill,,,,I could go on and one but you dont need that,,,we are still on the same track just as long as the "positives are spelled out rather than the negatives. There were many many more positives than any companyI ever worked for,,,,maybe they were a bit to easy to deal with,if they took a stronger approach to the market as far as looking for more business and not caring about the dealer
with the attitude many companies employ,,,,,
You Bought It,,,,You own it.
This can cause many explanations on my part
but Iam unable to answer too many questions
My wife is after me to walk the dogs,,,,,they too have a "requirement" you know what that is,,,and right now they are due,,,,,gotta run.....thanks again Jody PS
How do you like me so far???? Im really not a bad guy just post too long of a post...ask bOb he can tell you about me.....<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 26 September 2001 at 05:22 PM.]</p></FONT> edited as I forgot something. My password,<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 28 September 2001 at 11:12 AM.]</p></FONT>
-
Bob Carlson
- Posts: 1063
- Joined: 20 Jun 2000 12:01 am
- Location: Surprise AZ.
The Auto manufactures have been trying to figure out a way for years to sell direct. They would love to get rid of the dealers that send In false repair claims, keeping parts from a car that was out of warrenty. And thats just for openers. Many more reasons.
In 95 I started looking for a new pedal steel. I called most of the builders and they ALL would sell me a steel direct. It's been going on for years, so whats the big fuss about now.
I recieved a flyer from Emmons a while back. The price list was dated June 1st 2001. A model LD10L had a retail price of $6,550.00.
Who can aford to pay that kind of money for a steel guitar?.
BUT.....what seems a little strange It that I get this promotion material a short time before they go out of bussines!. Two plus two always makes four. There Is to many things here that don't add up to four. Like did Emmons Inc. file for B R?. If they did, I don't think Ron can get his hands on the down payments people sent In to Emmons Inc., so how can he deliever the back orders?.
I was going to order a V knee lever kit but decided to wait until we got moved down to Surprise. Just lucky I guess.
More answers somebody. Make two and two add up to four.
Bob Carlson
In 95 I started looking for a new pedal steel. I called most of the builders and they ALL would sell me a steel direct. It's been going on for years, so whats the big fuss about now.
I recieved a flyer from Emmons a while back. The price list was dated June 1st 2001. A model LD10L had a retail price of $6,550.00.
Who can aford to pay that kind of money for a steel guitar?.
BUT.....what seems a little strange It that I get this promotion material a short time before they go out of bussines!. Two plus two always makes four. There Is to many things here that don't add up to four. Like did Emmons Inc. file for B R?. If they did, I don't think Ron can get his hands on the down payments people sent In to Emmons Inc., so how can he deliever the back orders?.
I was going to order a V knee lever kit but decided to wait until we got moved down to Surprise. Just lucky I guess.
More answers somebody. Make two and two add up to four.
Bob Carlson
-
Bill Sharpe
- Posts: 351
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Hermitage, TN 37076, USA
Thank you-
Jody Carver
- Posts: 7968
- Joined: 3 Jan 2001 1:01 am
- Location: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
- Contact:
Hi Bill,,,,I had my pups out for their nitecap. I will very happily answer any and all of your questions. I dont think it is fair for me to take up a lot of space here as there are others with the issue that started this thread waiting to voice their opinions on "direct selling" to do or not to do.
If there are enough people out there that are tolerant of my long drawn out stories on the "battlefield" I will be happy to reply to your questions. I do feel you certainly have a good friend in the dealer who works along with you...that is a rare case but then again he must realize that you are a good customer and your willingness to pay your way shows him that you are a good customer.
I beleive my mistake was simple and innocent
on my part. A traveling musician with a problem amp or guitar was in fact welcome at any MusicMan dealer,,,,the salespeople invloved such as myself and the sales rep in the area where the customer needs help did in fact get the repair,,,in fact we encouraged all dealers to "loan out the product to the customer" to replace his defective or faulty instrument.The loan out was not just anything,,,it was the same as the product purchased by the customer.
MusicMan took this stance and also had the dealer loan the instrument no charge while his instrument was being repaired. Each dealer made that verbal commitment prior to taking on the MusicMan franchise. There were a few who did not wish to particpate,,,,but they were in the "minority" Leo Fender insisted on "good will" regardless of cost to the company,,I think that is worth more than a re-imbursement of a mimimum service charge.
As I said earlier,,,nothing was written in stone,,,it was left to the judgement of the individual sales reps for the areas invloved.
Since there were only 5 MusicMan reps nationwide and all former Fender salesmen,,,we always worked out the problem.
There was nothing in writing as to our obligation regarding labor re-imbursement nor was there anything in writing holding the dealer to having to purchase a specific dollar amount of product.
That in itself tells the story of Leo's philosophy,,,,Just make the customer happy was his battle cry the hell with offering the dealer a labor re-imbursement most all companies re-imburse the minimum that dont even come close to the amount of work performed,,but it does look and sound good.
We went further than labor re-imbursements we had NO TIME LIMIT as most companies do.
If the dammed amp was 5 weeks old or 5 years old it was handled with the customer satisfaction as the final bottom line.
We ate many speakers that were overdriven and voice coils that were open,,,,,Electro Voice gave MusicMan a 90 day warranty on all their speakers,,,,on open voice coils...that
was decided by Electro Voice,,,and most all of the time MusicMan paid out of pocket for any and all Voice coil problems.
How do you tell a customer he "played too loud and that was the reason the voice coils were burnt,,,,the customer pays a lot of money for the amp,,,,can you dictate to him on how loud he can play?? There are many other facets to this Bill,,,but as I said before,it would take much too much time to explain. If bOb gives me the OK I will do it
or you can e mail me at home. I have nothing to gain here,I just want to show my respect to you and answer to the best of my knowledge any question or doubts you may have. If there was a mistatement by myself I do apologize,,,but the MusicMan company went out of their way for the dealer and the retail customer,,,,that was Leo Fenders sucess all those years with fender & it continued till the day he passed away.
Leo was what he was,,I dont think there was a better man who showed more compassion for his salespeople,,,,dealers & retail customers
Later if you need more info,,,but you owe me
,,,Burger King will be fine....you can ship me a "Whopper" in exchange for this info. That will act as my re-imbursement. Im sticking my neck out here,,but I have no problem with that as long as I can explain and answer your questions.To Leo Musicians
were his best friends and he had an obligation to them,,,that is what made him a wonderful human being.PS,,,most all pro musicians such as Speedy West,Herb Remington
Bobby Koefer,can attest to the credibility of leo Fender,,everyone was a pro to leo,,,recently Jerry Byrds name came up,,Jerry can also give a testamonial regarding Leo Fender,,,,and there are many too many to mention here.Ask anyone about Leo
his name was synonomous with fairness to all and most of all concern for his customer proffesionals as well as non pro's. He took that philosophy with him to MusicMan,,,and thats "written in stone" so what are we talking about here??? a labor re-imbursement
policy?....that was the least of Leo;s commitment to the customer,,,,,in Warranty or Out of Warranty,,,,there was no labor re-imbursement.there was much more than that.
Leo Fenders word.....that was the best warranty ever.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 26 September 2001 at 08:17 PM.]</p></FONT>
If there are enough people out there that are tolerant of my long drawn out stories on the "battlefield" I will be happy to reply to your questions. I do feel you certainly have a good friend in the dealer who works along with you...that is a rare case but then again he must realize that you are a good customer and your willingness to pay your way shows him that you are a good customer.
I beleive my mistake was simple and innocent
on my part. A traveling musician with a problem amp or guitar was in fact welcome at any MusicMan dealer,,,,the salespeople invloved such as myself and the sales rep in the area where the customer needs help did in fact get the repair,,,in fact we encouraged all dealers to "loan out the product to the customer" to replace his defective or faulty instrument.The loan out was not just anything,,,it was the same as the product purchased by the customer.
MusicMan took this stance and also had the dealer loan the instrument no charge while his instrument was being repaired. Each dealer made that verbal commitment prior to taking on the MusicMan franchise. There were a few who did not wish to particpate,,,,but they were in the "minority" Leo Fender insisted on "good will" regardless of cost to the company,,I think that is worth more than a re-imbursement of a mimimum service charge.
As I said earlier,,,nothing was written in stone,,,it was left to the judgement of the individual sales reps for the areas invloved.
Since there were only 5 MusicMan reps nationwide and all former Fender salesmen,,,we always worked out the problem.
There was nothing in writing as to our obligation regarding labor re-imbursement nor was there anything in writing holding the dealer to having to purchase a specific dollar amount of product.
That in itself tells the story of Leo's philosophy,,,,Just make the customer happy was his battle cry the hell with offering the dealer a labor re-imbursement most all companies re-imburse the minimum that dont even come close to the amount of work performed,,but it does look and sound good.
We went further than labor re-imbursements we had NO TIME LIMIT as most companies do.
If the dammed amp was 5 weeks old or 5 years old it was handled with the customer satisfaction as the final bottom line.
We ate many speakers that were overdriven and voice coils that were open,,,,,Electro Voice gave MusicMan a 90 day warranty on all their speakers,,,,on open voice coils...that
was decided by Electro Voice,,,and most all of the time MusicMan paid out of pocket for any and all Voice coil problems.
How do you tell a customer he "played too loud and that was the reason the voice coils were burnt,,,,the customer pays a lot of money for the amp,,,,can you dictate to him on how loud he can play?? There are many other facets to this Bill,,,but as I said before,it would take much too much time to explain. If bOb gives me the OK I will do it
or you can e mail me at home. I have nothing to gain here,I just want to show my respect to you and answer to the best of my knowledge any question or doubts you may have. If there was a mistatement by myself I do apologize,,,but the MusicMan company went out of their way for the dealer and the retail customer,,,,that was Leo Fenders sucess all those years with fender & it continued till the day he passed away.
Leo was what he was,,I dont think there was a better man who showed more compassion for his salespeople,,,,dealers & retail customers
Later if you need more info,,,but you owe me
,,,Burger King will be fine....you can ship me a "Whopper" in exchange for this info. That will act as my re-imbursement. Im sticking my neck out here,,but I have no problem with that as long as I can explain and answer your questions.To Leo Musicians
were his best friends and he had an obligation to them,,,that is what made him a wonderful human being.PS,,,most all pro musicians such as Speedy West,Herb Remington
Bobby Koefer,can attest to the credibility of leo Fender,,everyone was a pro to leo,,,recently Jerry Byrds name came up,,Jerry can also give a testamonial regarding Leo Fender,,,,and there are many too many to mention here.Ask anyone about Leo
his name was synonomous with fairness to all and most of all concern for his customer proffesionals as well as non pro's. He took that philosophy with him to MusicMan,,,and thats "written in stone" so what are we talking about here??? a labor re-imbursement
policy?....that was the least of Leo;s commitment to the customer,,,,,in Warranty or Out of Warranty,,,,there was no labor re-imbursement.there was much more than that.
Leo Fenders word.....that was the best warranty ever.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 26 September 2001 at 08:17 PM.]</p></FONT>
-
Bowie Martin
- Posts: 666
- Joined: 26 Nov 1999 1:01 am
- Location: Wilson, NC USA 27896
-
Bobbe Seymour
- Posts: 7418
- Joined: 12 Jan 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
- Contact:
This all comes down to one thing.You get a better deal from the dealer. Do you want to pay the factory retail price and only get the guitar? Or get a discount and a lot of free stuff fron a good dealer?Would you rather have one warrenty or two? We are talking legitament factorys here,and legitament dealers. AND, you are a whole lot better off to buy a "homemade" guitar from a legetiment dealer than buying it direct.Double security. You can save a lot of money through a good dealer.
Bobbe
Bobbe
-
Bill Sharpe
- Posts: 351
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Hermitage, TN 37076, USA