Expect a Country Music Come-back?

Bill Fall · Post by **Bill Fall** » 26 Sep 2001 10:55 am

I hope this won't sound mercenary, given our state of affairs, but . . .

Historically, the popularity of Country Music outside the South and West has always run in cycles. Predictably, it's enjoyed resurgence during times of national duress -- eg., wartime, severe economic recessions. Possibly its greatest boon years ever were the mid-Eighties. But this was followed quickly by its all-time worst downswing, at least as a form of local entertainment.

Since the late Eighties, bandwork -- for all music styles -- seemed to evaporate almost completely, certainly here in the Northeast. This was partly due to more stringent drinking/driving and club-liability laws in many states. And DJs & karioke sure didn't help! (It got so bad, I packed my steel away in 1990 and, save for one gig in '91, it never saw daylight again for over 10 years, as there was no incentive even to practice anymore.)

Now, unfortunately, we're facing a new national crisis. There's also a whole new spirit of patriotism and Americanism sweeping the country, however. Because Country Music uniquely appeals to patriotic sentiments and instincts, these are the conditions that, traditionally, always saw a large upswing in C-M popularity.

At the same time, of course, the elements that killed the local band industry are still in place. So I'm wondering if somehow this national tragedy, the ensuing state of war, and the groundswell of patriotic fervor may breathe new life back into the dead corpse of that industry for at least some among us now-dormant musicians.[This message was edited by Bill Fall on 26 September 2001 at 01:09 PM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 26 Sep 2001 12:12 pm

I hear you Bill. It's not that different in the midwest where I live. Five night bar gigs abounded when I started playing steel in the early 70s. Now bands who want to play mostly old/new country are fighting over the Saturday nite only VFW gigs. Very few are making a good living playing country music in Smalltown, USA.

Lets think about this realistically:
If you held up a picture of Ray Price, Stonewall Jackson, and Ernest Tubb, out of 100 'average americans' how many could identify them?

If you held up a picture of Faith Hill, Tim McGraw, Garth Brooks, how many?

If you held up a picture of Britney Spears, 'N Sync, Elton John, and Mick Jagger, how many?

There's power in numbers and the name of the game is mass appeal. Unfortunately for many of us, expecting a resurgance in 'good ole grass roots country music' may be a pipe dream. I'd be surprised if that changes in the forseeable future. (But I'd LOVE to be surprised)

For steel guitarists, I believe the future lies in other genres and venues. Players like Greg Leisz, Bruce Kaphan, Robert Randolph, Gary Brandin, and Bob Hoffnar are leading the way into some of these other musical fields. Those of us who want to continue to play the VFWs and private clubs may still have a few gigs, but opening up our horizons might prove to be much more fruitful. It's not necessarily an 'either/or' situation. It is possible to play a wide variety of music in multiple venues or settings.

Just my li'l ole opinion.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 26 Sep 2001 12:43 pm

I think, and I know I'll catch some flack from this,a lot of the blame for the lack of good country gigs lies with the line dancers. Not the two-steppers mind you, but the line dancers. During the 80's, I was playing 4 to 5 nights a week. As soon as the dancers showed up, with their instructors armed with CD's, it became very hard to hold down a gig. The clubs sprouted up catering to them, but soon lost out because they tend to drink a lot of WATER. Even TNN had a couple of shows strictly for dancing and canned music. Never once did I see a live band playing.
As to where it will go, is anybody's guess. I would love to see it go back to where it was before, and I'm hoping it might turn around. We can only wish for the best to come to the top again. There are still some performers, who, keep it country. And so, we must, all of us support them.

bob drawbaugh · Post by **bob drawbaugh** » 26 Sep 2001 1:07 pm

Larry I think you make a good point. We have jus come back from a cruise. Let me tell you they had a greay band. About 15 peices,no steel guitar. They played every thing from pop to country and everything in between. My point is when they had to be country they were and when they had to be rock or pop they were. I love good old country music and hope it makes a big come back. But if it does not lets not let the steel guitar go by the way side just because good old country music does.

Adrian Wulff · Post by **Adrian Wulff** » 26 Sep 2001 1:41 pm

Everytime I meet someone my age (26) and tell them I play country music they make a face and say something like, "That's the only kind of music I can't stand." But when I start talking about Willie Nelson, Buck Owens, or Patsy Cline and then play them some tapes they nod their heads and mention that they grew up listening to this stuff on their parents turntable(or 8-track!). People just need a little help to realize that there's a lot of good country songs out there that are worth listening to. I agree that in some way, what happened on 9-11 is going to change what type of music people are going to want to hear-and it isn't going to be empty pop music. There's a little rockabilly/country scene cooking in Portland Oregon, a few clubs and a few bands. I play guitar in a rockabilly and and we're starting a honky-tonk band on the side.A lot of us feel like there's a mission to bring in people who don't know the old-stuff is being played anymore. The hard part is finding a steel player or a fiddler for a honky-tonk band. If musicians don't like playing Top Forty country, and there seems to be quite a few here on the forum, than they should try to find players who like the classic stuff too. They might have to settle for some people who are a little less seasoned as pickers-but that sounds better to me than playing the cheese that's coming out of my local country station. I'll bet that every mid-sized city has some kind of underground, alternative country scene going. And I'll bet these guys would love to connect with some of the regular country players who like the classic tunes-even if it was just to talk shop and get some ideas. IMHO, thanks!

Jack Francis · Post by **Jack Francis** » 26 Sep 2001 2:07 pm

I was talking to a good friend, Chuck Hall(a Great Blues singer/guitarists)about the state of country music today and his comment was that country music today is only "Hallmark greeting cards put to pop music!"
Our band plays some good old covers, along with our songs.
We just released our new CD and somebody is taking notice. Our music sounds like it could have been recorded in the '60s.(even getting a little airplay on small stations here.)
I think the cycle will swing back again, but i think also that the giant sucking sound that we here from Nashville leaves opportunities for us out here amoung the unwashed masses.

Jack Francis
www.roadhousekings.com

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 26 Sep 2001 2:10 pm

Bill, I seriously doubt it. During the Viet Nam conflict, Country Music was somewhat popular with the servicemen, but it wasn't holding it's own on the mainland. By the early '70s, Classic Country was being replaced largely by schmaltzy, over-produced Pop-Country.

Although Country has been quite re-evident since about 1990 (thanks to Randy Travis, Ricky Van Shelton, and George Strait), it's once again drifting farther and farther away from what us "old timers" prefer. The music business is now dominated by the young-sex-appeal artists, and most of them are afraid of losing stardom to merely satisfy what is now best termed the "niche market" that Classic Country has come to be.

Music will soon change, and some other form (maybe Latino) of music will be the mainstay of the industry. Country, as we know it (and as Garth and Shania fans know it) will fade away. I would like to think we steelers could be a part of whatever music rolls around, but history doesn't go along with my views. Steel has found it's way into nearly every type of music, but hasn't flourished in anything but Country, and for a time...Hawaiian music. I've been playing for over 35 years, and listening a whole lot longer. Except for that brief time in the early '90s, it's been steady downhill for almost the past 30 years.

For those who don't agree (and I'm sure there are a few who will

)...when's the last time you heard a number one chart song with a really nice steel intro?

As the "Killer" (Jerry Lee Lewis) would say..."Think about it!"

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 26 Sep 2001 3:29 pm

Donny is right. Classic country, and by the same token, classic pedal steel, is mostly gone in the mass media. (Remember guys, this is 'STEEL PLAYERS'

)
The stuff Franklin and Bouton and Co. are turning out is great -- don't get me wrong -- but it is crafted to intentionally be 'new' sounding. I've heard Paul intentionally imitate Emmons, Drake, etc. BUT what I hear him doing over the past 20 years or so says PAUL to me. And that's something other than classic steel sound. And that's something other than classic country production. Just a choice. Some like old better than new. Others may like only new.

The point I want to make is that there ARE bars where one can play only classic country and get away with it. In my experience, it's the private clubs where the average age is about 60 -- VFW, Moose, Elks, etc. So, classic country isn't dead . . . YET, but when those folks go to that big Moose Club in the sky, the current market for classic country will go with them. We're not raising many Ray Price fans, folks. (and I TRIED)

Some bars will actually hire bands that play some old country, but mostly new country and a rocker every now and then. The steel man in those bands often LIVES for the old country tunes and SUFFERS through the rest.

Stay flexible, folks, it's the only way to survive. Learn how to play a rock guitar line -- it won't kill you. Learn how to create a mood that doesn't say 'country'.

And SMILE a lot.

It could be worse (we could have chosen the accordion or, God forbid, the banj*.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 26 Sep 2001 4:00 pm

I think a lot depends on who will pay the big bucks to go a concert, and who has the bucks to buy the CD's. It's the younger set, 8 years old up to 40 or so.

I have grand children, 8 years to 20 who have 50 to 100 CD's. And they ain't country. well at least what I call country.

I've got over my mad at the music companys because to make a living they have to record what sells.

I've got every CD Allen Jackson and George Strait has recorded because to me thats todays country. Of course I also have all the old stuff thats been put out on CD.

But I'm sorry to say I don't think real country will be back for a long time, or until ALL US older folks BUY 50 to 100 CD's.

Bob Carlson

David Biagini · Post by **David Biagini** » 26 Sep 2001 5:34 pm

Don't give up yet - George W. Bush is a Dale Watson fan!

Robby Thomas · Post by **Robby Thomas** » 26 Sep 2001 8:24 pm

Paul's playin sticks in my head. Even the tunes I don't care for. His steel is almost always the hook. Songs that come to mind:
"grace of god go I"
"I hope you dance"

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 26 Sep 2001 9:37 pm

its funny....I did 2 sessions today ...the 1st one was all country, & I mean the kind where you can use the A pedal also & not just play "add 2" chords

.The afternoon session was all "new" type of stuff.....the morning session went well, all enjoyed the arrangements & it seemed to be quite effortless to capture the results on tape.
2 o'clock rolls around & we listen down to chart the 1st song of that session.Here we go again...."non-steel" steel parts & muiltiple electric guitar overdubs...even a pennywhistle part for one of the musicians

.
Looking at the other faces during the charting of these tunes I saw no enthusiasm or interest;not at all like the 10AM date.
The writers for the most part seem to want to get back to a more traditional sound in their songs but they wont quite let go of "that 70's Sound"

.
Until the writers(most of whom are quite young, comparitively) get their puppies run over, emotionally speaking, the fluff will continue.
The fellows & ladies who wrote those "old"tunes we all love & dig playing, were for the most part young themselves at the time.However.....they werent getting up at 5am to go to the gym to work out & didnt care much for being "politically correct".If they saw 5am it was because they hadnt been to bed yet

.10am sessions were not the norm in those days either. It always seemed a little wrong to me to play a cheatin or drinkin song with the sun still up, too.
The writers these days are alot of young, college educated folks who have a tendency towards "analysis paralysis".....& no feel for spontanaiety & tradition.
Until they get their hearts broken a few more times & lose a few more writing deals I guess we will be subject to playing background muzak to their idea of how the world is &/or should be.
A few black eyes & divorces around Muzak City might not hurt....

.
just my opinion.....

Bill Fall · Post by **Bill Fall** » 27 Sep 2001 6:31 am

I guess this discussion really takes in two questions: (1) Will live Country-Music entertainment ever make a come-back in local clubs? And (2), will "traditional" C-M be part of that come-back?

And maybe the two are interdependent. After all, since traditional styles (far better than commercial, "programmable" flavors of modern pop- and soft-rock-type Country Music) appeal to sentiments and the patriotic fervor of America's backbone -- the working class -- then a rebirth of local band business just might depend on a return to good OLD Country & Western.

I'm mindful that time and Country Music stand still for no man, however. For me personally, when I first got into C-M, what then was "good ol'" Country to my "elders" -- like Jimmy Rogers, Roy Acuff, and even (dare I say it?) Hank Williams, etc. -- had no appeal for me. Likewise, some of those older C-M fans back then were renting their garments over the new stylisms of Jim Reeves, Chet Atkins' Nashville Sound, and even Ray Price! Heck, I played the Wheeling Jamboree when Lee Moore still thought drums in a Country band was sheer musical heresy!

Like many, I miss the traditional -- for me, the "good ol'" -- Country Music of the Sixties & Seventies. But I'm willing at least to try to grow with the times and the industry. Just bring back live entertainment work so I and others can give it a shot!

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 27 Sep 2001 7:57 am

Country Music has made several comebacks,Usually thanks to some movie,or someone finding an old record that they think was cool,and most often because the people who still love it ,play it, hang in there. Mom and Pop have got too old to travel to the Opry anymore as they once did several times a year. The Bar scene has found it easier and more affordible to have a DJ...The great Librarys and vast network of archieves of Country music are depending on the newer generation for support of it's place in history...But they are as we were at that age making their own choices. It will be harder if there is no industry to record it ,people to support it ,and Radio Stations continually dump their archieves of the past, hire people who have to play the list, follow the clock and know nothing about classic country music to play it, yet alone even like it...Nashville has changed it's support of the tradition as seen by the demise of TNN,Opryland,mostly thanks to the caring of the Gaylord corp. (actually it never did support the pickers). The new scene trys to harvest a newer product to rake in the bucks from a hard to sell industry. Ive learned that nothing stays the same and this world wasn't built for just me. However I managed to enjoy a Country Music in my time that I still love.... Will Country Music ever really comeback Not as we knew it. There are still enough of us who continue hope .IMBWBTMHO.

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CJC

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 27 Sep 2001 1:45 pm

I made my living playing music until 1982 and we always had to play a variety to stay working. For about 3 years I played mostly jazz while working on the Fort Knox Army Post. When I became a club owner in 1982 most of the songwriters that came in wrote pretty much traditonal country but were always told on music row they were too country. It seems to me the row folks are and have been aiming at nothing but crossover country/pop records since around 1975. There's more steel in todays country than there was then but it's only so they can make the claim it's country. I don't think having a steel or fiddle in the tune makes it country at all. You can play rock and pop on just about any instrument but the row folks don't see it that way. They've got a whole new generation of kids thinking Brooks and Dunn and Garth Brooks are country. True they do some country to get their foot in the door but then it always changes. If they can keep it just enough country and just enough pop and have a star that looks like a soap opera star they figure they've got all the bases covered. I was flippin through the channels last night and seen the new Jamie O'neil video. I'm just trying to figure if she's trying to sell the song or sex? The way she went on in the video, she may as well do one for Playboy now. I for one think that the video has done more harm for country music than good by far.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 27 Sep 2001 5:48 pm

I don't think it'll ever make a comeback like it was! There's too much water under the bridge. Music is continually evolving to the next phase. Listen to the country of the 30's (Jimmie Rodgers, Carter Family, etc). It was primitive compared to Hank Williams who was primitive compared to Ray Price & the Cherokee Cowboys. These arguments about this and that not being country don't hold any water. Someone who liked the stuff from the 30's and early 40's probably at one time said that the country music from the 50's & 60's wasn't country! I'm an old dude (61) but I still like a lot of the new country and love the old stuff too especially Buck & Merle. I played full time for 23 years and had a great time doing it. Now I've got an easy city job and play for the fun of it. You can make your own venues if you need to. My band, the Legends in southeast Virginia plays two to five times a month at fast food joints like Hardee's and have a great time doing it. We usually play on Thursday nights from 7 to 9 and the age of our fans is usually between 55 and 95 but they have a great time. You get about 30 bucks and a happy meal plus we have a great time. We do a couple of lodges and some private parties. Also there's a classic country station here which has a monthly stage show which we're the houseband and back up the guests. And all we play is classic country with some of the old standard rock & roll things like Kansas City, etc. I'm really enjoying life now and playing a lot and loving every gig. The local club scene here has all but dried up and most of the pickers here would rather set home by the phone waiting to be called rather than play some of the gigs we do. The newspaper came out and did an article on us which was very complimentary and helped us get some more good paying gigs. If anyone would like to read it go to our website which is: www.tomagear.com/legends. There's also a website for the Steel Guitarists of Hampton Roads which was put up by Larry Sutphin. It's at: www.evertize.com/sutphin.

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Have a good 'un! JH U-12

Ian McLatchie · Post by **Ian McLatchie** » 28 Sep 2001 2:57 am

The same five media conglomerates that own all the major film studios, TV networks, major market TV and radio stations in the U.S. also control, if I remember, something like 95% of the recorded music production. In their eyes, the only group that matters are teenagers with too much money in their pockets, and anything that doesn't appeal to them is not going to get much promotional push. Real country's not about to die out, but that's a long way from saying it may regain the popularity it once had. Sorry guys, you may as well hope for the emergence of a new golden age of American film like the 1970's. It's no more likely to happen, and for the same reasons. Viacom and Time-Warner-AOL aren't big on art based on naked emotion and unadorned style.

Bill Fall · Post by **Bill Fall** » 28 Sep 2001 4:32 am

Jerry Hayes, you entrepreneurial genius! I was so inspired by your gig at Hardee's, I approached this hot-dog vendor outside Fenway Park. Offered to mount my steel on an American Flyer wagon & hook up to his push cart...for only $10 a day & free dogs! Can't believe he actually turned me down!!

[This message was edited by Bill Fall on 28 September 2001 at 05:33 AM.]

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 28 Sep 2001 4:38 am

Mike Cass: Thanks for reminding me of this:

Years back, a young Nancy Sinatra tried it in a recording studio. The producer told her there was "something missing" in her delivery. Maybe she needed to live a little first before she could sing it.

She did that; got married etc and divorced etc and when she came back into the studio with Lee Hazelwood, she knocked them over with These Shoes Were Made For Walking and Oh Lonesome Me and several other big hits.

Seems the maturing (aging ??) process is a definate factor in this evolution. I also like the comparison you made as to friendship
and understanding between the musicians. I see that as a vital point as well. Thanks for the insight !!

Regards, Paul

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 28 Sep 2001 7:06 am

Re Paul & Mikes comments:

I think you've nailed it. It takes some living with the disappointments of life to gain the individual and generational self-confidence necessary to be your own person.

It takes maturity to look the "world" in the eye and proclaim who or what you are, instead of being guided by political correctness and what others think you should be.

I saw one generation eventually embrace "our" music who in their youth wouldn't be caught dead listening to that "hillbilly crap" because of what their "friends" would think.

I have confidence that it will happen again.
www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 28 September 2001 at 08:15 AM.]

Bob Hayes · Post by **Bob Hayes** » 28 Sep 2001 7:25 am

I've been listening lately to an AM country radio station that has a mis od classic,old and new country and gospel. Would you believe that country classic tune writen by Willie and recorded by Faron..HAD NO STEEL..ditto for some by Patsy, Claude Gray, Bobby Bare,and a host of others!!!. I was shocked, as all of the old Classic Country songs that I had to learn the likes for HAD NO STEEL. Some even had NO GUITAR..OR FIDDLE. maybe a drum, base, keyboard..Dig out some of your old 78's and 45's and listen. Amazing!!!. However THERE ARE numerous records with dominate steel. Even some of Tammy's did't have any ..as weel as George Jones...guitars,keyboard, and voices.
..I play now with a realy Senior Citezen Group..but we play very little western swing and we also have a great fiddle player..I bring some of the late (classic)top 40 country into the show(Wattermelon Crawl,Headhunters stuff, Achy Breaky, etc..) mostly 'cause the LINE DANCERS asked for them. THEESE LINE DANCERS learn it at the Seniors Centers. Donny and some of the others are right..you have to be fexible or stay home!!!
Grouchyvet!!

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 28 Sep 2001 9:18 am

But I ain't never spent no money buying them older county records that didn't have steels. I have about 190 CD's and ther're all country and they all have plenty of steel.

And I have never heard a George Jones' ballad that didn't have some fine steel.

The last CD I bought Was George Jones' two CD collection of songs he did on United Artists Lable titled "She Thinks I Still Care". I have them on LP but they are worn out. If you're a Jones fan you'll love It.

We are lucky here In Flagstaff In that we have an AM Classic Country Station. And I'll agree there are alot of country recordings with no steel. But like I said , they wern't the ones I bought.

Bob Carlson.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 28 Sep 2001 10:05 am

I had a demo session a couple days ago with a young singer/songwriter, who I've known for a decade. He used to be in punk bands, which if you remember, were against and a reaction to the 'music establishment', which is what we've all been complainig about also. Anyway, the songs he was demoing were 'country', ie lots of steel and Dobro, albeit suffering from a bit from 'singer/songwriteritus'. We spent a lot of time talking about the problems with the forms and he ended up borrowing every cassette I had of Wynn Stewart, Buck, Jones, Haggard ... and on. Here's a young man with talent headed in the right direction.

Post by **b0b** » 28 Sep 2001 4:52 pm

moved to the Music forum