The "Jerry Garcia is the world's greatest steel guitarist" s

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 3 Aug 2001 10:24 am

Click here to see it. http://acapella.harmony-central.com/Forum16/HTML/014448.html

BTW I am "Stringman."

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 3 Aug 2001 11:01 am

Did you ever listen to The Grateful Dead after the drugs wore off?

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 3 Aug 2001 11:28 am

I imagine it would be similar to listening to the cassett tape during breakfast that was made of the "great job I did down at Joes' bar last night".
P.S.... I was just making a joke about how some of my playing sounded to me when played back later...but reading the post again it sounds like a "put down" of Jerry Garcia, which was not my intent.(Sometimes my words sound as bad the next day as my playing)[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 04 August 2001 at 08:28 AM.]

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 3 Aug 2001 11:39 am

I know there have been some long discussions going on on the Forum about this. I know many do not consider Jerry a steel player at all. There´s an excellent article in Guitar Player magazine from April 1971 in which Jerry shares some of his thoughts about the pedal steel guitar. If you get a chance to read it, you will see that Jerry was well aware that he wasn´t such a great player, but he certainly had some thoughts about it that made sense. (As about everything - he definitely was a THINKING man.) As for "Teach Your Children", it is not true that he had been at it just for a few weeks when he recorded it, as many seem to believe. I recommend Joel Selvin´s marvellous book Summer Of Love, where it is stated that he started in Summer of 1967, often "getting up early and practicing for hours before even leaving his bedroom." About 1969, he got together with John Dawson, doing small gigs as a duo that would eventually lead into the New Riders Of The Purple Sage. The CSN&Y thing for him seemed to be just one of many studio sessions, remember, they were mighty crazy in those days.
IMO, it is a pity that he gave up. He showed all the signs of becoming a highly original and innovative steel player. Despite his lack of technique (which he would always readily admit and who knows, with some effort might have changed, IF he had only stuck to it,), he definitely had a personal, recognizable sound, which I can´t say about a lot of today´s players.
Finally, Jerry is one of the main reasons why I got into steel. I liked to play along with the first NRPS album because that stuff seemed accessible to me when all the "real" steel players were still too hard for me to understand. On the first version of "Henry" on Before Time Began, which is practically a demo from the early days, he played some pretty fast licks, and I would measure my own playing against those!
From there, logically, I discovered Buddy Cage (BTW, the only guy Jerry got a chance to learn some stuff from, as he said in the Guitar Player interview), and after a while I went on and checked out Buddy´s influences, Emmons, Charleton etc. And I guess it has been like that for a lot of younger generation players back in the ´70s (I wish I had been born 20 years earlier...)
Regards, Joe H.

Frank Freniere · Post by **Frank Freniere** » 3 Aug 2001 1:17 pm

I've got to agree with you, Joe. This topic (and Jerry) has been flogged to death on the Forum. But I also want to say I really, really like the percussive right hand style JG used in "Teach Your Children" - I have no quibble whatsoever with his technique on this one.

Haven't listened to any New Riders stuff since 1970 - shortly before I went to Munich for a year! Do they still celebrate Starkbierzeit at the Paulaner Brauerei? Auf Wiederhoeren!

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 3 Aug 2001 1:33 pm

If any of you go to the forum I posted the link to, you'll see that it is mostly populated by kids who basically think Jimi Hendrix invented music. Snall wonder they only know about Garcia and never heard of Buddy Emmons.

I tried to set them straight. I don't think I had much impact.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 3 Aug 2001 6:37 pm

Fame and ability don't alwaws go hand in hand do they Mike!Just because some one is famous doesn't mean they are great, BUT ,most can't understand this outside the ranks of true musicianship.(Clinton must be a great sax man, look how famous he is!)
Garcia must have been great,Look how rich he was! ha ha! Roy Stoner must have been great, he's in the SGHOF!
Bobbe
Bobbe

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 3 Aug 2001 7:54 pm

...Mike, it doesn't serve anybody well to be a snob about steel guitar virtuosity...those kids are like I was, and a lot of other people on this forum, too...I didn't listen to country growing up, I listened to rock, R&B, pop, anything but country, unless it happened to cross over, which was a lot easier to do in those days, like Roger Miller or Johnny Cash...point is, and this has been beaten to death, I heard steel by all the people who get trashed on here repeatedly...Eric Weissberg on "Country Roads", Pete Drake on "Lay, Lady, Lay", and "The Boxer" (I think), and that got me interested in Country Rock and stuff with Al Perkins and JayDee, and all that stuff stuck with me and just kind of bubbled underneath for years until I was ready to begin to do something about it and take up the steel myself...it was only then that I began to learn about the great steel players and all of the kinds of music they play...

....but somebody had to plant the seed in this dumb kid's head...no different today...you never know, maybe "Firebird Suite" will be the "Teach Your Children" of tomorrow..

..and you never know, maybe someday I'll be in the IHOP!...

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 3 Aug 2001 8:12 pm

All I have to say is that many musicians who are a lot better than I am love Garcia's playing on that song. Who am I to judge what they like? We should let it rest. It's kind of like saying that Chuck Berry was just a mediocre guitar player who only knew a few licks. Which is true in an analytical way, but I know that I loved his playing when I was 14 years old.....

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www.tyacktunes.com

Geoff Brown · Post by **Geoff Brown** » 3 Aug 2001 8:39 pm

Mike, don't be too judgemental or underestimate the "kids" in that forum. I don't know about you, but I was one of them once. Looking back, my experiences listening to music were limited. I remember being surprised to hear that Garcia played that PSG part. Although I was never a Dead fan,it sparked my interest, and as I listened to more music, I found more great music that was new to me. Music with PSG, sitars, and whatever else. As a listener, I'm no different than anyone else. And there's no reason to think that the "kids" in that other forum won't continue to expand their musical horizons (and consider your suggestions). I'd rather see them posting than cruising the mall or zoned out in front of a Playstation

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 3 Aug 2001 8:52 pm

Thanks for posting our links over there, Mike.

Music isn't just about technique. Jerry's parts in "Teach.." were as melodic and unique as any of the best hooks in pop music. When you can come up with lines like that, you're a real musician, IMHO.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (E9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Geoff Brown · Post by **Geoff Brown** » 3 Aug 2001 9:06 pm

"....but somebody had to plant the seed in this dumb kid's head...no different today...you never know, maybe "Firebird Suite" will be the "Teach Your Children" of tomorrow.."

Pat, you bring back fond memories for me. I studied music in college (I'm a classically trained trumpet player) Being a brass player, naturally the Firebird was, and is one of my favorites. I remember playing that piece many times in concert, and during the finale I had all I could do to play...it was so intense listening to everyone around me that I just wanted to stop and soak it all up. Such a high. But when the show was over, all I wanted to do was go home and peel off my tux, throw on a shirt and play my guitar. I was just learning...had an old Harmony Rocket and a beat-up Silvertone amp. My apartment was so cold that I sat a space heater on a crate to keep my hands warm. I couldn't wait to play along with Neil Young and Muddy Waters records. Playing the guitar was something that truly spoke to me. Those were some of the best days of my life.
So where did all this lead me? I'm a Registered Nurse...ugh

Someone..please put me out of my misery...

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 3 Aug 2001 11:51 pm

I don't mean to knock Garcia, or his solo on Teach Your Children, but when these clueless kids say he is the best steel guitarist in the world, and that break is the single best example of steel guitar playing ever recorded, it bugs me. I feel I have to speak out and tell them about Buddy and Lloyd and Curly and Paul and the rest of our heros.

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 4 Aug 2001 4:09 am

Pat, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I heard steel by all the people who get trashed on here repeatedly...Eric Weissberg on "Country
Roads", Pete Drake on "Lay, Lady, Lay", and "The Boxer" (I think)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>. IT WAS CURLY CHALKER ON THE BOXER. LARRY

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GO TITANS GO!!!

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 4 Aug 2001 4:45 am

..thanks, Larry...I was looking all over for the album credits on "Bridge...", and I couldn't find where the steel was credited (go figure!)...virtuosity be damned, I have always liked the steel break on "The Boxer", it makes the song...and Elton John's "Tiny Dancer", and....

...Geoff, I can see why you'd freeze your ba..bottom off in Canisteo...I think I rented the same apartment, but only for 10 or 15 years...I forget what Sears brand guitar I had when I got together with other guys who actually had an amp...for some reason, Johnny River's "Secret Agent Man" sticks in my head...and "Apache", and I think it was "Walk, Don't Run", another instrumental that every kid played, or tried to..one of the guys knew "Wildwood Flower", but who wanted to listen to that shtuff..but seeds were being planted..

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 4 Aug 2001 4:57 am

Geoff, When I was in intensive care 7 years ago at Baptist Hospital, I don't think a musician would have helped me much, thank God for people like you and your profession. Larry

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GO TITANS GO!!!

Geoff Brown · Post by **Geoff Brown** » 4 Aug 2001 7:08 am

Well, Canisteo and that area is pretty damned nice, except for that 6 months of winter. I miss home...miss the Finger Lakes..miss walleye fishin' with dad, miss deer season..miss the family and friends, but I don't miss the winter. Not exactly the cultural mecca of the universe, either

Larry, thanks for the kind words. I enjoy my work for the most part...it's just not what I had in mind. I work long hours, don't get paid what I'm worth and detest hospital politics. But the bills get paid...usually

Pat, you aren't saying that you actually lived in Canisteo at one time, are you??[This message was edited by Geoff Brown on 04 August 2001 at 08:15 AM.]

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 4 Aug 2001 7:21 am

...no, but the winters here in the extreme northwest of N.J. aren't much better...it's just that we don't get those "lake effect" snows that start in September and last until May...I can remember being at the Watkins Glen Grand Prix in September and getting snow flurries...

...the Finger Lakes region is beautiful...

...Larry, what do you mean musicians wouldn't have helped you much...they could play "Give Me One More Last Chance" for you, or worst case, "Sweet Chariot"..Comin' For To Carry Me Home...

Geoff Brown · Post by **Geoff Brown** » 4 Aug 2001 7:31 am

Yeah, Pat. You must live in that Water Gap/Pocono Mtns. neck of the woods. Have driven that area many times in winter, and it can be brutal.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 4 Aug 2001 7:46 am

...that's where I'm at, just across the river on the Jersey side...

...to keep this on topic, sounds like Larry's grateful he's not dead..

Geoff Brown · Post by **Geoff Brown** » 4 Aug 2001 7:55 am

That was bad...very bad

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 4 Aug 2001 7:58 am

Living in Los Angeles, I've heard of "winter" but never actually experienced it. Is it related to "cold?" (Another foreign concept.)

Seriously, I always liked "The Boxer." From the frst time I heard it, it was always one of my favorite S&G songs. I'm sure Curly Chalker's playing has something to do wth that.[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 04 August 2001 at 08:59 AM.]

Tom · Post by **Tom** » 4 Aug 2001 10:47 am

Mike P.
You are right, Jerry Garcia can not be put on a stand or even in the shadow of The Big E. or any of the players you mentioned. Jerry did a good job on Teach Your Children.
As did Budy Cage with some of the NRPS songs
But I would not compair either of them to those steelers you spoke of. Also as you pointed out they learn about the Steel Guitar Comunity = World, then talk about the subject.

Tom, Marlen P/P 10>8/4