Question for Chas about Joaquin's last guitar

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 7 Aug 2001 9:32 pm

7 or 8 years ago i was idly watching larry king's nightly tv interview show on CNN. Connie Stevens was the guest and mentioned in passing that her production company was working up a filmed version of spade's life story. i nearly fainted, mostly because of the connie stevens/spade cooley juxtaposition. king, in his normal sphinx-like mode, never pursued it. i have not heard a word about it since and wonder what ever became of the idea.

jason: those dance-o-rama's are 33's and take a standard stylus. may have misread your meaning. the "club of spade" LPs are worth getting. joaquin is on some of them--i think there are about 5 lps in the series. joaquin's solo on "florida" is not to be believed!!

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 8 Aug 2001 4:57 pm

Mitch, I'd read that for some weird reason they where 78s!, which I thought was really insane for a mid 1950s release on a major.
Now my life has changed, I'm going to have to try and dig some up when I can. (thanks)

I don't have any "club of spade" LPs, but they show up at collector shops around here every now and then, in fact I walked into a place about five years ago and couldn't believe what I was hearing. I asked if it was Bob Wills and the guy behind the counter laughed and said no it's Spade Cooley. I was gone, gone gone by then.

There was a website bio on a certain indie filmaker who started a Cooley project, I don't think he got too far in the pre-production stage, definately no filming.
The big problem seemed to be Spade's estate.. (his family don't seem to want to know about it, or didn't at least some years ago).. as well as the whole thing with the KTLA tapes or whatever they have.

I've read a summation of the coroners report on what injuries Cooley inflicted. It's really hard to reconcile that with the music at times, but I do remain a fan of his work.
I mean, I love reading the work of William Burroughs and he shot his wife dead in rather dubious circumstances.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 8 Aug 2001 6:14 pm

Drugs are bad, in excess. I was going to tell part of the story the way I heard it and decided not to. Suffice it to say that, evidently, he had hallucinations and black outs and that he was very jealous.

It's easy to see why the family might not want to revisit that period especially when it's for our entertainment.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 8 Aug 2001 6:38 pm

Jason ,,,,since this is a subject that I have much respect for,, I would like to add
something.
Your "comment" regarding Joaquins's playing on a tune "Florida" has to be heard to be "believed".

I think those who have heard Joaquin such as Chas and Mike Johnstone can attest to the fact that everything that this man played had to be a work of art,,,to hear him is to believe him.

His "live" playing was greater than his recordings,,,Ernie Ball a friend of mine as well as a friend of Joaquins's gave Murphey
the well deserved "title" of truly.......

"THE KING OF WESTERN SWING" that he is and will always be that to me ,,,,"un-contested"

This ia a "Great Thread" there should be more like this,,,,,,,,thanks to Chas and MJ those who knew him best,,,that we know more about this "greatest player of our time" and an influence on many of todays great players.

HE WAS AND STILL IS THE KING,,,,,,,Many thanks to you Keith for starting this wonderful thread,,,,[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 08 August 2001 at 07:41 PM.]

Keith Grubb · Post by **Keith Grubb** » 9 Aug 2001 9:17 am

I tell you it is really interesting the way some topics really take off. I was listening to Joaquin last night and was just totally blown away by his beautiful playing. I am inspired every time I hear him play. Thanks again to everyone for their input. I think this forum is a great tool for getting information and an education too.

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 9 Aug 2001 10:19 am

Chas: If I might borrow one of your expressions that I really like: As an Aside:

I have a faint memory of these 8000 dancers; that at one time there were so many people trying to get in they had to have two shows each night. After the floor was cleared of the first crowd, the second was let in for the late show. That would mean it was even bigger than the numbers would suggest.

Does that fall into your history of this band as well ?

Regards, Paul

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 9 Aug 2001 12:25 pm

I wish we could get Jerry Compton in on this he's so much more knowlegable than I am.
Paul, I don't know about that. The one weekend I would have loved to have seen was the battle of the bands at the pier between Bob Wills and Spade Cooley. The outcome went to Spade and he crowned himself "The King of Western Swing", so he had a bit of an ego.

The story went that he would fire the band on Saturday night and hire them back on Monday. Speedy said that he worked one weekend and after he got fired, he refused to be rehired.

I have a snippit on a cassette of a live recording at the Palace? that has solos by Joaquin and Ozzie Godden on vibes that is a taste of what he sounded like live, it's pretty amazing. So I asked him a number of times who he listened to. I've had the benefit of having records and CDs and compilations from the archives from the '20s, '30s and '40s that I don't think was available then. He said he liked an accordian player named Ernie Feliz ( I think I have that right) and he idolized George Shearing, so go figure.

He described himself as kind of an idiot savant, he brought over a cassette one time and I asked why he didn't just mail it. He said he had no idea that there were envelopes for those things, but with a guitar, he just knew where all the notes were and he could zip around the neck with a fluidity that was astonishing to watch.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 9 Aug 2001 2:12 pm

LONG LIVE THE KING

J O A Q U I N M U R P H E Y......

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 9 Aug 2001 4:01 pm

When it comes to appreciating Joaquin, you guys leave me far behind.. it's not that I dig him, it's just that you appreciate him on a level far greater than I.

Paul, I think the rotating crowds situation was common at one point at the ballrooms.
I have read reference to this for Tex Williams and Cooley, even the Bear Family linear notes for the Ole Rassmussen compilation CD mentions Ole's crowds waiting outside in the car park and they'd herd in one crowd after they cleared the place.
What can I say, the War Industry worker influx, the expansion of the CA suburbs and the post war boom in California all helped, but most of all they wanted to dance and have a night of it.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 9 Aug 2001 4:38 pm

Jason,,,,,I promised myself I would never post again.

When I see a thread such as this,,,I find it impossible NOT to post my opinion.

To hear Joaquin during his Cooley days,,,and then on to Tex Williams,,,,I do feel Joaquin was a bit (not better) but different with the Tex Williams band....of course we know what the Williams band was comprised of,,,,ex Cooley members.

I have many of the Cooley transcriptions with Joaquin on steel,,,I thought he was at his best with Cooley. It may have been the arrangements although Williams was a Cooley
member as well.

When I hear Noel Boggs with the Cooley band after Joaquin left Cooley,,,I have to admit
Noel's full bodied chord sound was different than Joaquins blazing single string
ride's.....but I find it difficult to choose one over the other,,,,Noel was great as was Joaquin,,,,they are hard to beat,,,I feel there are few if any these days that could hold a chair with the great bands of that era
Cooley & Williams.

Iam not taking away from the great players of today,,,but that was a special time and a special place,,,,,it can never happen again.
Thats my opinion.

Now let me go and make peace with myself and get off here,,,,I enjoyed this thread...that is more than I can say for some of the others
where the people take issue with anything that is posted,,,,,,Jason keep listening to Murphey,,,and Boggs,,,,like Nike says.

JUST DO IT......be well, hi to those Kangaroos.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 9 Aug 2001 5:02 pm

What's even more amazing, when you think about it, is who did these guys have as role models on their instrument - almost nobody. I agree with you, Jody, Noel was in his own way just as great as Joaquin. Noel could swing like mad just by glissing a chord with a wide slow vibrato and a single pick attack. And his substitutions were way ahead of other steel players at the time (but behind people like Coleman Hawkins and Art Tatum). And Joaquin! What haven't we said? I can hear some things that sound like Django, Benny Goodman and Charlie Christian in his playing but by and large, he invented most of what he played and it was years before anyone caught up.[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 09 August 2001 at 06:03 PM.][This message was edited by Andy Volk on 09 August 2001 at 06:03 PM.]

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 9 Aug 2001 5:04 pm

Love your words, Jody. It's like icing on a cake. The cake is good but the icing is always better. And aren't we all just kids afterall is said and done ??

Regards, Paul JodyPS: There's an irish tenor on PBS singing, Blue Eyes Crying In The Rain. Where did country go ? Frank Paterson is doing it on educational TV.....

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 9 Aug 2001 5:24 pm

Paul,,,Andy....thanks for agreeing with me
my wife never does.

Not too much though,,,you will give me a "big
head"

Paul...I like the "icing" as well....Noel was the cake Murphey the icing...one was a great as the other...I loved them both...man wished I could sound like either one of them.
Andy,,,your comments were exactly how I feel about Noel as well.....
Now Im back to www.Marthastewart.com for my wife so I can stay out of trouble on this thing" called love" (The Forum)

Be well you guys,,,,,Paul didnt forget the tapes....Im just slowing down I guess....wait till the weather gets cool...then I "get hot again"

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 9 Aug 2001 11:23 pm

I want to add to some of the comments above, I don't have to like something to appreciate it, I was riding in a car recently where the driver was listening to a Madonna CD. It's not music that I particularly like, but I was enjoying how well it was put together. By the same token, the western swing and the playing styles from the '40s may seem unsophisticated when compared to Count Basie, Artie Shaw, Ellington or Goodman, or the playing styles of today, but taken in context and listened to with the ears of it's intended audience in that time frame, I think they hold up very well. And I think Joaquin could have hung in with anybody, well maybe not Webern and Shoenberg.

Tex Williams vs Spade Cooley, I think Tex had the best band to play some of the worst music imaginable.

Who were these guys role models, that's exactly it. Whether it was Joaquin, Buddy Emmons, Ralph Mooney, Paul Bigsby, Speedy and many others, they were the pioneers and innovators that the rest of us have had the good fortune to be able to "look over their shoulders". I'm always amazed at how fortunate I am that I've been able to meet some of my heroes and hang out with them.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 10 Aug 2001 4:05 am

Chas,,,,

I like your comments,,,why didn't you hang out with me? you told me I was one of your
"hero's" am I forgotten so soon????,,,,,

Murphey without a doubt IS still the best,,,and you are correct,,,all those great players you mention admired Joqauin,,,he was Speedys idol as well......you should like the picture I sent you,,,,,be well,,,,
Your Hero Jody... gotta run ,,,the hero of the house is coming,,,,she's the real hero in this household...for 47 years,,,to one wife,,,,is that a record OR WHAT......

I preffered Spade's approach to his music over Tex,,,although neither band had an equal
I will now hear from the Bob Wills fans,,,
I liked him too,,,,,but Cooley was the
"Coolest" of all,,,,,,they can dispute,me,,but they cant change my opinion,,.,,,"outta here" gotta admit that Great sound of Noels Fender was no slouch either,,,,I loved them both.....still do PS

Chas it is threads such as this that have me returning to this "Forum" time after time.
I have resigned to the fact that I will never
particpate again. My interest in this topic
has put my decision to quit once and for all
on hold for the time being.

No use kidding anyone,,there are many threads
posted that are filled with nothing but issue's that stir arguments. I find this topic and your'e input as well as Andy's & Paul's to be constructive rather than destructive as I have seen and been invloved
in.

If Iam to keep my promise to myself and quit
I will try to refrain from replying any further than this. There should be more like this,,,rather than the other kind,,,Oh I like variety..but not the kind I have seen on the Forum the last four weeks or so. They say "variety is the spice of life"

I like variety and humor and knowledge,,,but I find it difficult to deal with name calling
and finger pointing,,,it takes away from the instrument we all love,,,,and the friendship we should have for each other,,
We dont need the "outlaws" " inlaws" we have to accept....but the "bad guys" bang outta
here. I will come back if you can get Jerry Compton to post,,,that should be the best yet
........meanwhile as Mike Black would say
Adios Amigo [This message was edited by Jody Carver on 10 August 2001 at 08:40 PM.]

Ed Webster · Post by **Ed Webster** » 15 Aug 2001 6:58 pm

In the mid to late 1940's a guy lived down the street from me named Ozzie Waters (He went by Capt. Ozzie back then) . He had a radio program in Denver at the time and every so often (not sure how many times, but a few) he went to Hollywood, sang in a B cowboy picture and made a few records. Joaquin was the steel player on those records. Used to have a couple of them but over the years (and many moves) they've gotten lost or broken. Too bad because there was some great steel.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 15 Aug 2001 7:54 pm

Ed,,,,those tunes you refer to are available again ,,,they were originally on "Coast Records" the tunes with Ozzie and Joaquin are great.

I will try to find out the re-issue label for you if I can,,,I have Ozzie singing a tune "Throw a Saddle On A Star" with the greatest sweetest steel solo Joaquin ever did.Had to edit forgot this,,,,,,some of the greatest expression of playing by Joaquin was done with his use of the volume pedal,,he would "bleed each note" and I hear from Chas that in later years Joaquin didnt use a volume pedal,,,, he was the best at sweet to hot,,,,like no one I ever heard

I too had these on 78 speed,,,luckily I was able to put them on tape cassette....I will try to find out what the name of the company is that bought these great masters of Ozzie Waters,,,,

Let you know,,,,or maybe Chas Smith or Michael Johnstone may know...Joaquin recorded many tunes with Andy parker & The Plainsmen.
Will check around for you....[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 15 August 2001 at 08:57 PM.] had to edit again for incorrect spelling,, sorry [This message was edited by Jody Carver on 15 August 2001 at 08:59 PM.] sorry had to edit again,,,,thats what I get for not going to college,,,,,one more time,,,sorry.........[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 15 August 2001 at 09:03 PM.]

Ed Webster · Post by **Ed Webster** » 16 Aug 2001 2:16 pm

Thanx for the info. Jody. Would be happy to get ANYTHING with Joaquin on it, from that era. I have a couple of Spade Cooley songs with JM on but none (anymore) of Andy Parker and the Plainsmen or Ozzie Waters. Thanx for any information you might have on the availability of some of these.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 16 Aug 2001 4:55 pm

Ed will do,,,,,and get the info to you asap
probably before end of this week end if not sooner,,,,,

Jody PS if I cant I will make a tape copy for you,,,,,,will e mail you off line for your address,,,,,,[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 16 August 2001 at 05:57 PM.]

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 17 Aug 2001 8:06 am

Ozie Waters and the Plainsmen
(Coast 225): Guitar Polka b/w Varsoviana
(Coast 226): Throw A Saddle On A Star b/w Missouri
(Coast 228): That's My Home b/w No One To Cry To

That's all I know of.

------------------
The future ain't what it used to be

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 17 Aug 2001 10:47 am

As a constant source of amazement and embarrasmment, people who don't live in this country, know more about us than I do.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 17 Aug 2001 2:25 pm

I heard the late Bob Foster playing some of Murphys stuff back around 85 or 86 and he let me tape some of his music and I've listened to it ever since. Bob was a great fan of Murphy and a great player himself. He kind of thought that the steel guitar had left him behind with the advent of pedals and quit after the plane crash that killed Patsy Cline and the others on board. I had bought a 51 Rick 6 lap steel and brought into Bob's T-Shirt shop to see. He reached in a drawer, pulled out some picks and a Stevens bar and played that thing to death right there on the counter unplugged. I tried to get Bob to go to the convention with me but he wouldn't go. I listened to a lot of Murphys stuff and he truly was the master of his time and maybe now too. Bob was certainly no slouch and was the nicest guy you'd ever meet. He gave me a really nice leather vest and Stetson Straw hat to wear on stage. Bob had a lot of pictures of him and a lot of the greats like Jerry Byrd he used to fish with. Those guys could really play back then and with no gimmicks.