Road steeler vs. Session steeler Pt. 2

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 9 Jul 2001 12:59 pm

Thanks for the link, Bill. I guess I missed it the first time. I would still like to read what those who have been posting here think.

Rick Barber · Post by **Rick Barber** » 9 Jul 2001 1:03 pm

I have many times hit the Clear Field button and not submitted replies. I suppose if one considers how constructive and kind a post is to the general steel public there would be lots of editing before posting going on.

My fascination with the forum is to try to gather tips on playing pedal steel . I suppose that is selfish but when I learn what I'm doing I will want to help the young newbies out. They are the ones who will help keep steel alive in the long run. I am not a pro musician, I'm an electronics engineer who likes to play steel on the side. The session work I do is non commercial home recording putting steel breaks into songs I write. My road work is going to steel jams which I live for by the way, and I have played steel for my band.

What makes the forum shine for me is being able to share playing techniques, music, and equipment topics with others both pro and newbies.

When I hear from the pros I appreciate hearing about their pro experiences whether good or bad. When the replies to posts are respectful I pay heed. When they are disrespectful I ignore, and move on quickly.

For the posts that are sincere, informative, respectful I think the newbies will benefit. For those who post disrespectfully I think then as steel community it is up to all of us to try and bring something better out of them.

I would only hope that the pro's will keep posting and I for one would always try to post respectfully whether I agree with a topic or not. After all this is the internet and we need to post and read and react responsibly in kind consideration to others.

Above all I really appreciate Paul sharing his experiences. Carrying a respectful attitude in all we do and say will make us all winners in the end --- no matter how well we play or where we play.

Respectfully submitted,

Rick Barber
Celebrating my 2nd year of playing PSG

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 9 Jul 2001 1:05 pm

Frank, that link is within the older, closed Bar Chatter forum, so you'll find you can't post to it. Branching off the subject to a fresh thread here on Steel Players might be a good idea, allowing folks to post....

Pete Mitchell · Post by **Pete Mitchell** » 9 Jul 2001 1:10 pm

Politics? Cliques? Etc.? Years ago I was fortunate enough to have worked with Ernest Tubb, which resulted in a personal friendship with Owen Bradley. Did I schmooze Mr. Bradley? Quite the contrary. Owen would make his way through the backstage crowd at the Opry and want to hang with me. Why? Because I definitely did not schmooze the man. We were friends outside of the "game." Had he offered me sessions? Yes, indeed. Was that my aspiration at the time? No. However, he was prepared to sign an artist I recommended, but said artist got another deal. Did politics have anything to do with recording with the likes of Conway Twitty, Marty Robbins, Charley Rich, Johnny Cash, Haggard, etc. etc? Would I have had the opportunity to record with these people had it not been for Ernest Tubb?

If you are truly sincere to your instrument and yourself, are you not just as content to walk off the stage with three or so sets under your belt knowing that you played in the ballpark of your top level and thinking to yourself, "I wouldn't take back one note." I have all the respect in the world for the Pauls, Bruces, etc. etc. If sessions are their aspirations, I am very happy for them and wish them long and continued successes. The bottom line is the fact that they are playing on records that are selling in the millions. Is that not the general idea?

Now, the poison. It is unfortunate that voices like Darrell McCall's, Curtis Potter's, Leona Williams', and Craig Dillingham's are never heard on the airwaves as opposed to some of these "manufactured" artists who are indeed selling in the millions. I may not care for some of these "new artists," but I am not in any way putting down any musician who may be making a living as a result of a lifetime of preparation, dedication, and lots of hard work.

In the meantime, let us hope that the younger aspiring steeler who may be reading these threads, does not get an adult dose of the jungle it is turning into. Let's just play good music and swap some positive ideas!!! .....Pete

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 9 Jul 2001 2:03 pm

Very interesting thread although it could almost be the second chapter of a book by now. I read the comments by Charlie Robison this morning in the paper about Brad Paisley and it just all sounds like sour grapes to me. I thought Brads comeback was as tactful as MacArthur on the battlefield. For all the folks that think they've been shunned by the producers or anybody on music row, it may not be your playing ability at all. Instead of griping about the call you didn't get, ask yourself why. Before I came to Nashville I worked hotel lounges and country clubs for a living. One night it was dead slow so the organ player and myself were at the bar and the bartender said "Well either they don't know we're here or they DO know we're here". It just might be that the folks who don't get the call ARE known. It could be a hundred other things too but the bottom line is you didn't get the call and they know about you. You never get a second chance to make a first impression so you better make the first one count. I've always believed success is where you make it and don't cry because it's not going your way today. I used to be the guy who always spoke his mind. It never got me anywhere. I got into the steel guitar game much too late to even think about playing sessions and could care less. Having a positive attitude as opposed to a negative one would be a good place to start. One thing is for sure, griping about it isn't going to get you any more sessions or live work and probably less. Nobody wants to work with somebody negative. Every time I get knocked down I get up and try a different way of going about it and look at it as a challenge. I could never play like some of the people I read about on this forum but if I could I'd be darn glad to have the ability and that would be enough. Somebody's got to be at the top and the rest are going to be somewhere below and that's the way it is. You could be in a car wreck tomorrow and never play again or your kid could die in a car wreck like a drummer friend of mine did just this past Friday. There's a lot of things worse than not getting the call. Don't take yourself too seriously and learn to laugh a little and roll with the punches. I never was a Brad Paisley fan until this morning.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 9 Jul 2001 3:00 pm

.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 06 September 2003 at 10:01 PM.]

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 9 Jul 2001 3:14 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Every time you play a gig and every time you play on a
recording, you never know who might be listening. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I got a call from a tv composer a while back who was looking for something different, steel guitar that sounded like steel guitar, but without the signature licks. When we were done recording he said, it's up to the producer now, either he's going to like it or he isn't. (he didn't). I asked him how he got my name and he said he had gone to a performance I had done with my ensemble at The Anti-Club in 1985. I asked what had he been doing since then and the reply was that he had graduated from high school, then went to college and then became a composer.

Tom Diemer · Post by **Tom Diemer** » 9 Jul 2001 4:01 pm

I always thought it was more about marketing, than slighting or favoring anyone. I mean, with all due to respect to all the incredible musicians in this thread, there are some of you, I've not heard of before comming to the forum. Names like Paul, Bruce, Buddy, (and others) we all know and some of us idolise.(sp?) I'm talking about consumers. The people the recordings are marketed to. ( I don't see anyone disagreeing that making records in the big leagues is about making money )

I may well be wrong, having no experience whatsoever in the big leagues of recording, but if you were producing a record, wouldn't you want names on the band list that can add sales value to the recording? In another thread, I read where some people said they would buy anything Buddy Emmons recorded. As would I. As would anyone who loves steel playing, the best it can be played. So may of you could take my breath away, with your playing. But who's name(s) would sell the most recordings?

More so with less known artists. Mr Average Consumer would think "I dont know who this is, but if Paul and Brent played on it, it must be good".

Many consumers will buy something that Brent, Paul, Buddy, Bruce (add names to this) played on. Their names being on the labels sell records. Don't they?

Case in point:
I bought Bruce's steel instuction video, because I loved his playing in the past, and knew his would be a good product for me to learn from. I was not disappointed. Do others make great instruction video's? Of course. But at the time I didn't know who they were.

One other point. I would think a producer would want to know what a musician can do, not guess at it. I don't mean just musically either. There are plenty of recordings with the well known studio musicians on them. But those not so known would perhaps be more of a risk to the record producer, even if they could play as well as the big names. Without extra work checking them out, they wouldn't know that. Right? And once you have worked with say, Paul, Brent, Buddy, Bruce, you know them, know their work ethic, and what to expect from them.

I know from personal experience, that just because someone is talented, doesn't mean you can work with them. (not aiming this at anyone on this thread.) Being as making records is as much about making money, as music, why would a producer take that risk on someone he doesn't have experience with, when he can get someone he knows can make the product he wants to sell?

Put these two together, and maybe thats why the calls don't come?

Tom (who probably doesn't have a clue how it works)

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 9 Jul 2001 4:33 pm

Hey!, how 'bout them Braves?

slick · Post by **slick** » 9 Jul 2001 4:36 pm

Why cant we just love one another and get along?I love Bobbe Seymour and that aint no easy thing to do.Seymour may saymore but he can playmore than me,only because he has more
strings than me.Whatdoyathinkaboutthat Seymour,Saymore,Playmore.Now back to the cooler.

Slick Wayne alais Arlin

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 9 Jul 2001 4:49 pm

If it is true that producing songs which celebrate adultery, drinking, etc. are contributing to the moral decay of our society, then are we wrong to accompany artists who sing such songs? Is it possible that God will consider us to be as much of an accomplice as the driver of the get-away car is during a robbery?

Frank, I never had to hide behind the lyrics of a song to do any of the above.

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 10 Jul 2001 7:23 am

One gentleman who has a lot of experience in the steel guitar industry mentioned to me once at a steel show that these producers know the phone numbers of all these steel players in Nashville and simply choose not to call many of them.

The reason he was told was that many of them cannot "cut it" in the studio. That does not mean they are not great players, but studio work is not like playing in a rehearsed road band.

Day-to-day studio work has to be some of the highest pressure work one could imagine. The player needs to be on top of his game whether he feels like it or not. They have to be creative every day and come up with good stuff in a short period of time.

For example, I have always wondered how other steel players would have played Alan Jackson's song, "I Don't Even Know Your Name." IMHO, it would have been tough to play it as tasteful as Paul did. Now that Paul showed us the way, it is easier to come up with our own ideas for playing that song.[This message was edited by Frank Estes on 10 July 2001 at 08:25 AM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 10 Jul 2001 8:53 pm

Frank, the idiot that told you that producers have everyones numbers in town and chooses not to call them is either very stupid or he's lieing to you, cuz it's just not the way it is. Most producers let the "session leader" or their secretary do the calling with a "preferd" list. Chet never called me directly, Mary, his sec. at RCA did the "glory" work. Who told you that anyway? Check with me first next time. When are you going to come and see me again? Huntsville is not THAT far away! (Don't make me have to come down there.)
Your Push-Pull buddy, Bobbe

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 10 Jul 2001 9:22 pm

IN fact the saying "Don't call me I'll call you was invented in Nashburg" by Studio execs As was "trust me"!

I also believe "the checks in the mail also originated somewhere in Nashtown.

------------------
CJC

[This message was edited by Joe Casey on 10 July 2001 at 10:25 PM.]

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 11 Jul 2001 4:34 am

Just one last thing to add. For those steel players who have studied all the greats (including me) and can't seem to figure why they don't get the call, there just isn't the demand for great intros and turnarounds on todays country music. It's a shame but the music has went in another direction and they don't need the cool stuff that was once heard on the radio. Once in a blue moon you may hear something like the new version of "Lost in The Feeling" (great steel work by the way) but how many times have you heard it on the radio? For that matter how many 3/4 tunes do you hear? That tune is country and they want crossover so it gets lost somewhere. If we don't meet their demands (studio heads) we don't get the work.

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 11 Jul 2001 8:05 am

Why dont this END???

Because buried in these posts is a lot of truth, some falsehoods, and a lot of sincerity, and it is rare when a thread on the Forum shows real people and real drama and confrontation (i.e life), and not just a bunch of "steel players are wonderful people" leg-humping. It's refreshing, to say the least. And don't worry, in a couple of days it'll be back to the same-old same-old.

Chris Bauer · Post by **Chris Bauer** » 11 Jul 2001 8:15 am

This thread had certainly wandered well away from Paul's orginal set of well-spoken and heartfelt comments. It (wandering) is a bit of a forum tradition, I realise, but I'm often sorry to see it happen. Particularly on a topic like this one.

That said, and having never shied away from trying to state the obvious, I'll reluctantly lurch on into this mess...

1.) There just aren't any A team players who don't have the talent to do the job. Does that mean that others aren't out there who could do the job and do it well? Of course not. But let's not confuse that with any lack of skills/taste/flexibility on the parts of those who are usually getting the calls.

2.) Did luck play a role in every person getting to where they are? Of course. Whether you choose to view it as God's will or you don't, the fact remains that we all got to where we are (and aren't) through a sequence of circumstances and events, many or most of which were out of our control. Some were early in life, some were recent, most were a combination of the two. That needn't involve "politics", schoozing, or any other thing so many posts seem say are negative or offensive. This is no different in music as with any other job. We're all a product of the oddball combination of our talents and our circumstances. No 'bad guys' are required for that to be true. That's not to say there aren't schmoozers, those who try to get by on 'politics', the somewhat-less-than-unbeleivably-talented-who-get-the-calls-or-who-get-to-make-the-calls-in-spite-of-it, etc. My point is simply that none of this is stronger than the combination of our talents and our circumstances.

3.)Are folks like Paul, Bruce, and the many A teamers behind them not bitter because they got the calls or did they get the calls, in part, because they weren't bitter? It would be naieve to assume that the former couldn't be a factor. BUT, it would seem to be even more naieve to say that the latter isn't likely to be a MUCH bigger factor...

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 11 Jul 2001 8:23 am

Bobbe, I thought it was you who told me that!

Not really.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 11 Jul 2001 8:27 am

Chris, I think that the former factor was formed by the latter.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 11 Jul 2001 9:21 am

Post Extracted

Chris Bauer · Post by **Chris Bauer** » 11 Jul 2001 9:43 am

b0b,

I absolutely agree. And, lest it need to be said, this isn't just about whether your attitude about music or the music business is good. If you bring a propensity for bitterness, or any number of related feelings, into ANY kind of interaction - musical or otherwise - you're almost always at a disadvantage. Few people have room in their heads and hearts to carry that burdon while still having enough room left to interact, socially OR musically, in the ways needed to get the best possible job done. Certainly there are exceptions to this just as there are exceptions to everything. Still, though, it's a generality that holds up pretty well.

Does all this mean that only those wearing rose colored glasses need apply? Absolutely not! I'm simply saying that the best possible performances and outcomes (and, therefore, the least possible need for schmoozing and being political...) tend to come the most easily to those whose attitudes are largely free from a range of negative emotional burdons.

Mind you, my comments have little or nothing to do with the achievement of great technique or creativity. The legion of tortured great artists and geniuses shows that. However, those folks are frequently far more likely to succeed in pursuits where they can work alone or, at least, are in complete control of their surroundings. Last I knew, even Buddy thought that steel guitar as a truly solo instrument was a tough mark for which to shoot...

Chris Bauer · Post by **Chris Bauer** » 11 Jul 2001 10:02 am

Jody,

AMEN!!!

I was amazed to find the wacky hate (or, at least, STRONG dissent shall we say...)mail start to arrive almost the second I made my first post. I'll briefly respond to them publicly here and then let it go.

For those who seem to have thought otherwise, I'm pointing fingers at no one. Part of my point was that we SHOULDN'T be doing that! And, tacky though it might sound... some of my favorite musicians (steel guitar and otherwise), are folks who are as bitter as they come for one reason or another... That said, though, my above comments still stand, especially as they relate to getting studio work.