Road steeler vs. Session steeler Pt. 2

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 8 Jul 2001 4:55 am

The thread closed before I had a chance to respond to the accusations thrown my way.

First of all let me apologize if my post about people skills offended anyone. I don't have a clue on an individual basis why great musicians, like Earl, had bad experiences in the studio. This is a sensitive subject. Professional musicians are following their dreams and things we all say can be taken the wrong way and friendships lost.

When I read the posts by Mike Smith, Dan Tyack, Herb Steiner and Jody Carver, their words are prime examples of the positive attitude and people skills I was refering to. They followed their dreams yet have an uplifting positive tone no matter what their personal disappointments were. They made a great point. Have fun no matter where the musician ends up it will be a good ride.

I also understand the frustration when the doors stay closed. In the seventies I starved for most of the decade until the Tillis gig came along. I built solid friendships along the way and still have the same friends today. Many of my friends also got lucky and became successful artists, but when we visit its not schmoozing no more than friends getting together here sharing the same interests. From a distance it could appear that way.

The BS skills certainly exist but they are NOT protocol to session work. I have always found that the insecure players rely on BS skills, not their musicianship to get the job done. I certainly on a purely christian belief do believe that BS or phony behavior is a detriment, not an attribute to
any musicians career. I attribute all of my success to God. In my life, he has put all the ducks in a row, not me.

I got all of my work through knowing someone inside. I met Garrish when I was 11 yrs old. He gave me work that he could not do. I met Lloyd when I was 15 and he called me in Detroit and asked me if I wanted the Lynn Anderson gig. I moved back to Nasville after giving up on the town a year earlier. I met Pete Drake around age 12 and he gave me my first shot in the seventies at studio work. I met Kenny Penny when I was 16. He called me to work with Jerry Reed which introduced me to Chet. In a club Paul Yandell asked me if I had any POP songs for Chet's new record while I was not doing sessions and still traveling as a Statesider. I pitched the songs from my "Over the Limit" cassette. Although nothing became of the pitch a decade later Chet remembered that I played pop steel guitar and told Knopfler about me. Mike Daly brought George Strait into the club I was working. I was asked to play on his record which became the "Something Special" record. That date landed me the entire MCA account. Tony Brown, James Stroud, Emory Gordy, and David Hungate were MCA in house producers. Most went on to run labels which helped to expand my career to where it is today. To this date, I got all of my work like this, which I'll bet is exactly the way most of you get your work. In fact that is the 90% I was refering to in my earlier post. The 10% that BS their way into road bands or studio work is a fair percentage. I don't personally work with many BS players. When they do show up on a date they stand out like a sore thumb. Anyway, I don't fish or golf with anyone other than my son. Knock on wood, I have never had to schmooze to get any of my work session or otherwise.

I do believe Buddy closed the door on the plagerism issue by confirming that he is asked to copy the demo. If an employer will ask Buddy, they will ask us to play something like someone else. I have no problem doing their requests because I love all the styles of steel players and find its fun rather than offensive. I too believe I am not very good at copying but I have fun trying.

Thanks Jody for sharing your session experience. It is a lesson in humility we all could benefit from.

Paul

I edited for poor spelling. I gave up on punctuation.[This message was edited by Franklin on 08 July 2001 at 06:50 AM.]

Bob Farlow · Post by **Bob Farlow** » 8 Jul 2001 6:11 am

Should you lie to the producer after doing a session when he asks you "How do you like the song?" Well, I told the truth and said " I really don't care for it", so that ended that relationship. So, my question is -- can you always be 100% honest with these guys, or do have to "bend the rules" (lie)?

Tommy Detamore · Post by **Tommy Detamore** » 8 Jul 2001 6:20 am

Very well put, Paul. I thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. The only thing I could add is that from my perspective, aside from having sufficient musical skills for the task at hand, the other important attribute one can have is that of attitude. I have learned that nobody likes a jerk, so I have tried really hard to always be friendly, upbeat, positve, respectful, and sensitive to others (not always easy for a cranky Virgo!), while stopping short of crossing over into any sort of BS mode. I mean, gee, it's really a "no-brainer", because this is the way God wants us to be as people. I feel like, at least for me, that this has taken me at least as far in this biz , in both live and studio situations, as my very average musical skills alone could have. Without exception, when I have been lucky enough to meet my "heros", yourself included, I am always reminded of the saying, "The bigger they are, the bigger they are". And while I may never be in their company on a musical level, at least maybe I can be on a personal one. This is one area where we can all be on the same playing field!

TD

PS-Please give your Mom and Dad my regards. They were very kind to me many years ago......

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 8 Jul 2001 7:07 am

Thanks Tommy, Good post.
Bob,
I always find something nice to say that is the truth when asked. In the same manner when my ugly relative asks "how do I look?" I might say "that dress looks great". Use the same skills, divert the issue if there isn't much good to speak of. You could say you loved the way the song ends.
Paul

Paul

Earl Erb · Post by **Earl Erb** » 8 Jul 2001 7:27 am

Hello Paul, very nice post. I learned a few things about you I didn't know. You made it and I'm proud for you...more power to ya'.

Remember the first time we met around 1969-70 in Jack Molleti's apartment for a little jam session? I guess you were around 14 or 15? Seems like I remember still working with Skeeter at the time.

As far as my studio experience goes, I did a few sessions but nothing to brag about, and what you said about getting work from people on the inside, I think that is the key that unlocks the door. You had great contacts.There were people who I knew, in the business,that I thought could or would unlock some doors for me, but that didn't happen. I found out who some of my friends weren't. My positive outlook after many years of frustration turned to bitterness and the end result was getting out when I saw I would not achieve the highest goal in my musical carreer.
I have had a lot of years to get over my bitterness but when the subject comes up a little of that seems to purge back to the surface.That is why some of my earlier posts were so synical.One thing for sure is that you made it and I didn't and you don't have to apoligize to me for that or anything else that has been said on this topic. Hope one day we can sit down and talk about the old days just for fun.

Your friend, Earl.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 8 Jul 2001 8:18 am

Hi Paul.
Thank you for your nice compliment,, I do appreciate it,,,everyone regardless of how young ,how old, or how good likes a slap on the back. Not too hard though ,,my back is getting old.

I posted what I felt others would see & may just pass it off "as some old guy talking of ancient history" ,,,however "history never really gets too old" thats why they call it "history"

I beleive my attitude as a pro musician back then followed me into my career with Fender.
I was "never the best salesman Fender had,,but I can say I was the proudest,,and always listened to anyone who made suggestions regardless of their position with Fender. I think that theory still applies in any field.

BTW...I last saw you in 1988 ,at the Pedal Steel Guitar show here in the NewYork area.
I had not played steel since 1960 when I put it back in the case forever.

I took it out in 87 and struggled to get my "chops" back,,by this time I wouldnt even say they were "chops". Bob Maickel a long time friend and president of the PSGA asked me to play at the annual show.

I was really afraid to show myself off to a great bunch of players as I felt I had "nothing to show off" I asked out of the commitment I made to Bob,,he pushed me and insisted I play that day in November of 1988
and of all things,,,with all the great players present that day,,,Bob puts me up next to you as you closed the show that day.

As much time I have had behind the steel in all the years prior,,it made my knee's a bit shaky,,I was playing my Fender four neck guitar,,I knew you were up next,,,but it didnt really bother me,,as I know how well you play and besides I wasn't competeing with anyone,,I felt like an old ballplayer at an "old timers" game compared to all of you young fellows... I was able to struggle through my set,,,and then sat and listened to you play.

I sincerely enjoyed your playing as well as the professional way you presented yourself.
I know I good product when I hear one as well as a great player using the "good product" your rendition of "Blue Velvet" knocked me out. I have had the good fortune of meeting people like Noel Boggs,,knowing Speedy West. Leon McAuliffe,etc even met Buddy Emmons a few times,,though I dont think he remembers me.

This is not a letter of a "mutual" admiration
for your nice compliments,,but a sincere way to say thanks, and you are a pro in many more ways than one. You can hold your head high Paul, I consider you out of the ordinary as a player as well as a human being.
Still would like to get a "Franklin Guitar" before I get too old to play it,,,,hey no business done here....be well & best to you & yours,,,you are a "lucky guy" but "you earned it. Jody PS sorry Paul,,but I too had to "edit" for poor spelling...I made "history
in school for poor spelling,,,that why I know so much about "history" I was not good in school..[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 08 July 2001 at 09:22 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 8 Jul 2001 9:18 am

Anyone who equates "people skills" with "BS" is simply wrong. The most important of part of people skills is tact. Don't say things that are hurtful or insulting.

I lost an account once because, when asked, I told the songwriter that I thought his song was weak. I knew as soon as I said it that it was the wrong thing to say. I could have found something good to say about it, without BSing, but I didn't. The session ended cordially, but I never got a call back.

There is good in all music - I'm convinced of it. I love the line in the movie Amedeus, where Wolfgang's composer friend asked him, in front of everyone, what he thought of his latest work. The reply: "I never knew such music was possible!". Now that's tact!

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (E9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Bob Farlow · Post by **Bob Farlow** » 8 Jul 2001 9:34 am

I think I'm getting the picture.

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 8 Jul 2001 10:23 am

Paul,
I attended that Seminar you gave in Armonk and I believe you said it was your first time doing it. You were a true professional and did not refuse anything we asked you to show us.
I still to this day play back those tapes I recorded from that seminar. And Jody I still play my tapes of you playing that Fender triple neck. You did your self proud and I still am amazed at what you got out of that Steel with no pedals.
People like You And Paul make me glad to be part of the Steel Guitar World.

Don[This message was edited by Don Sulesky on 08 July 2001 at 11:24 AM.][This message was edited by Don Sulesky on 08 July 2001 at 11:25 AM.][This message was edited by Don Sulesky on 08 July 2001 at 01:58 PM.]

Tommy Detamore · Post by **Tommy Detamore** » 8 Jul 2001 11:05 am

Bob, you could always use the line that Johnny Gimble would always pull out in those situations...."Boy, that's really something"....

Ron Carpenter · Post by **Ron Carpenter** » 8 Jul 2001 11:11 am

From the weekend warrior point of view, I deal with the BS guys all of the time. Basicly, I think they are insecure with their musicianship. Trying to move them along to new musical ground is really touchy. If they don't read music, don't know numbers, and genuinely feel it's not worth the effort to learn, then the BS is all that's left and it wears thin very quickly. How can you communicate with an illiterate? Then, when they figure out that you know concepts beyond their ability the jeolousy begins. If a person isn't willing to invest the work neccesary to grow, why do they blame the workers for their situation?

Over the years I've heard terrible things about all of the great players.
Conceit, arrogance, and so one. My experience is that the guys on top know that but for the grace of God they would be in Detroit, South Bend, Dallas, or even Columbus working the animal club circuit. After having met Paul, Buddy, Reese, T. Morrel, Jr. Knight, Johnny Cox, and others; they're all great people as well. They have afforded me the same respect and dignity that I have offered them. Always helpful and able to address the instrument from where I'm at. Who could ask more of a hero?

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 8 Jul 2001 11:11 am

Is your career beer mug half-full, or half-empty? That perception controls much of what we do professionally, as well as in life generally.

I don't get all the sessions/gigs I want, and for all the projects I'd like to be on, and I don't get called by a lot of acts or artists that I would love to receive calls from. Jeez, even if I couldn't do the date, I'd still like to get the call! Marty Muse (who's the Paul Franklin of Austin due to his being first call steeler for most of the "hip" acts in town) said "we all want ALL the calls, regardless of whether or not we can do them." But for whatever reason... whether it's my personal playing style, or my sometimes off-the-wall sense of humor, or the fact other players have a career momentum going... I don't get nearly the calls that I used to get, like in the 1970's when I was among the first-call steel players in this town, played on a couple gold records, etc.

I like to think I have a positive attitude, but I'm not immune to professional envy, and I've expressed that envy to Marty, and Scott Walls, Jim Loessberg, Tommy D., and others. Of course, I never let this personality flaw affect my friendship with them or my respect for their playing, since without a doubt these guys are tops at playing and could certainly show me a lick or two, as well as being among my best, dearest friends. Rather, I turn these feelings and questions inward, and I try to figure out what INSIDE ME, what do I, or don't I, PROJECT TO OUTSIDERS, that causes those that do the hiring to call other pickers first. What is it that I AM NOT PROVIDING that makes me not the first-call?

Of course, I'm the first-call for a lot of people... my beer mug is half-full there, but when I hear of a cool project that I'm not on, my mug is half-empty then.

(Interesting sidebar regarding professional envy: when I discuss this issue with a lot of guys, I oftentimes find that they are envious of ME! Surprise, surprise (apologies to Gomer Pyle

) Everyone has their own beer mug and their own brown pasture, I guess.

Years ago, my wife and I had dinner with a picker, a good friend to this day. I told him how much I envied his playing and his gigs. He was astounded, and said "you have a beautiful wife, and a cool well-paying day gig, and a nice house, and sleep in your own bed every night, and YOU envy ME?!" )

Back to sessions and session etiquette: One thing I learned early on was that hot licks impress steel players and pickers, but antagonize many others. In 1973, I would work gigs with Jerry Jeff Walker but he didn't invite me on his album projects. Finally, Michael McGeary (the drummer!) told me that my "hot licks" intimidated JJW because he didn't understand chord substitutions and changes. I decided to develop a melodic approach that continues to this day. Played that way on a show with JJW and MMMurphey. Jerry flipped. Jerry invited me to be on his next half-dozen albums, starting with the "Viva Terlingua" album. BW Stevenson liked that approach and I was on the original "My Maria" album that year also.

The last paragraph is not intended as self-leg-humping, but rather to illustrate the fact that disappointments can be turned inward and with self-examination, can become great learning experiences, if one attempts to get outside himself, with the view others have, and not to vilify or discount those grazing in the "greener pastures," so to speak.

I had another such learning experience just the other day. Driving back from a gig with Justin Trevino, I mentioned a particular local artist that had never called me for a gig... about the only steel player in this town that HADN'T gotten called. Justin said to me "I think you're man enough to handle this. Dude, he told me he just doesn't care for your style." While it was momentarily humbling, I also realized that the fellow likes me personally... we get along great socially..., but that for his music, he feels there are better steel choices.

Hey, I record my own albums, and I use the guys that I think fit best for the style I'm creating. Sometimes this excludes players that I play 100 live dates a year with. Maybe they have the same feelings towards me? Probably do. Maybe they'd be more open, candid, or cordial if they didn't have a small burr under their saddle about MY choices for session personnel? Probably would. I can understand it. I don't personalize it.

For that matter, Justin Trevino is a good, good friend of mine, and we play together in TWO bands. I drive him to gigs. But when he records, he uses Dicky Overbey, Randy Reinhard, or Rick Price. Would I love to record with him? Sure. Do I fault his choices for his recording steel players? How could I? These guys are monsters... I live in an area (Austin/San Antonio) full of monsters. And I don't use Justin for bass on my albums, not because I don't dig him or that he couldn't cut it, but because for the music I record, there are cats that produce the sound I seek more easily.

And hey, it's not 1973 anymore, and I'm not a hungry kid anymore. If the someone doesn't care for my style, well, so be it. I'm still learning to play, still learning and re-learning the classic solos, but my general style now is what I like and I don't really feel like changing it unless I perceive a MAJOR career opportunity, and I haven't seen one of them puppies in awhile!

I'm currently pursuing teaching and writing course materials, and planning yet another album. The recent semi-success I've had (thanks to the encouragement of Jeff Newman) in turning my music into teaching materials, seems to have pointed me in that direction. An album is not just an entertainment product... it is also a "how-to" course, if you provide the written material to go along with it. So that light bulb went on for me a couple of years ago.

Bottom line is this: We have to accept responsibility for where we come from, where we are at present, and where we want to go. That is, if we're fortunate enough to know all that stuff.

Please excuse the self-indulgent rant, unless some of it made sense to you. In that case, send a check to the address on my website!

Herb out.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 08 July 2001 at 03:29 PM.]

Greg Derksen · Post by **Greg Derksen** » 8 Jul 2001 11:41 am

Great post Herb, Its easy to let the B.S.
politics or the half empty deal get a person
down,
I have felt always fortunate to get the work I do get, it sure ain't cause I'm the fastest
gun in town, but I try and learn and listen
to the best players and producers I can.
I try and direct my energy more towards
what I have rather than what I have not,
sounds a little corny, but it keeps me
smiling more. And its contagious, people
are more creative in that atmosphere.
Right now I am producing two Demo CD's,
I am thankful for the work, great experience,
extremely humbling at times.
Thanks Paul for writing your posts , its
encouraging. Greg

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 8 Jul 2001 12:28 pm

What a great thread.

It put me back in mind of when I was actively persuing the session biz in LA. I had a great attitude, wasn't bad in the studio, and was pretty sure that I could get the job done as well as anybody in LA (except of course the heavy reading stuff which guys like Doug Livingston own). I did a good job in the studio, and was always called back. But I didn't work even one percent as much as I would have liked to. I looked at guys getting prime gigs that I knew I was better qualified for, and some of those guys clearly got the gigs because they hung around the right people. And yeah, I blamed politics at times. But looking back on it, I know that my lack of work was because I simply around the right people at the right time, and also (more significantly) people like JayDee were out there doing a great job, so there was no real reason for people to use me. So I definitely understand that being able to play in the studio, and having a great attitude aren't sufficient to 'make it' in the studio. There's a lot of serendipity involved. And as everybody knows, there are people who just seem to make it happen (whatever it happens to be). Some of these are blatant BS artists, but most that I have known aren't.

I do know that there is a middle ground between beating your head on the road and being on the A team in Nashville. Right now I can't say I am doing all the sessions I would ever want to do, but I feel I am 'successful' session player, even if I play on 'masters' that most people on the forum will never get to hear. And where the entire cost of the product is a tiny fraction of Mutt Lang's ProTools budget for an album. But I get to play on some very creative music with great musicians, and my contribution is valued by the producers, players and listeners. I am a happy guy, even though I know I will never play on a top 10 country record. And I never BS, although I have to say I hang around and shoot the BS a lot more than I used to.

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www.tyacktunes.com

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 8 Jul 2001 12:41 pm

I normally don't get the 'country' calls, with the exception of one client, there are others, JD, Bovine...et all... who are more qualified than I am, and frankly, if I was producing a country record, I would probably call them also. I've had a producer call me and tell me to bring a 'bag of licks', I could see where this was headed so I told him I really only had one lick and I gave him the numbers for some other players. Now if you want something different, then I'm your guy.[This message was edited by chas smith on 08 July 2001 at 01:43 PM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 8 Jul 2001 12:44 pm

Hi Herb,,,
I think my long posts are "catching" Im happy to read your comments,,,also happy I have another who does long posts,,I dont feel alone now.

Your comments are well taken,,,my question is
if someone such as Paul is doing so well,,there must be a reason,,we know or I should say I know,,its because he is a super picker.

So what if the guy has a 15 bedroom house..he earned it,,if he has 15 bedroom sets more power to him to fill the rooms with all the beds he can muster.

Here's the deal,,,when you are popular and making money ,,people are envious and put ya down maybe call you a "bum" NY talk,,,if you are not popular or successful you are also called a "bum".
How does someone earn the title of "half a bum"??

When I was a Fender rep,,,no one wanted that gig,,,,too hard to sell that "crap" they called it,,,what me sell that crap a solid plank of wood with a neck attached??,,,,No they wanted the Gibson or Gretsch jobs ,,,esay sell back then.

When Fender caught on ,,,I was called "lucky"
sure I was lucky,,I was lucky to have stayed on with was once called a "lost cause" selling that piece of wood.. however I always had the respect of competitive sales people,,,they could find no fault with me that could justify "envy or jealousy" I was everyone's friend,,,not a phoney but I just like people and dont go out of my way to hurt anyone.

Paul Franklin has earned his place,,he is a great player as well as a gentleman,,,I hope he has 25 bedrooms in the future and if I ever go to Nashville I will ask Paul if I could have a room,,,he wouldnt turn me down ya know why??? cause I would bring my own sheets and pillow,,,that's why...the same one's I used when I slept many nights in my car cause I couldnt afford a motel room back then...and they were jealous of me?? I would have been happy to let them sleep in my car as well....I had a station wagon,,

Be well,,,My dogs are doing better,,but they have an "attitude" they think Iam lucky to have them..but I earned it,,,Im a "super picker" of poop,,,I even know how to "block"
when I do my "thing....Is this as long as yours...I wanted to see if your's is "longer than mine" Oh what am I saying here....Please help me Im Falling" PS Don I was playing my four neck in Armonk,,,didnt it sound like 4 necks?? just kidding,,,thanks for the compliment I deserve it,,,,just kidding,,,its hard to make "jokes" on here" people cant see my expressions,,I thought I was "HORRIBLE" and I admit it,,,I too have the tapes,,,and the tapes DONT LIE.....but thanks anyway.....[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 08 July 2001 at 01:54 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 8 Jul 2001 12:58 pm

Huh? great forum or what?="#8e236b">[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 08 July 2001 at 02:43 PM.][This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 08 July 2001 at 06:07 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 8 Jul 2001 1:03 pm

Yep, it's great![This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 08 July 2001 at 06:09 PM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 8 Jul 2001 1:08 pm

*[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 02 May 2002 at 02:41 PM.]

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 8 Jul 2001 1:09 pm

Jody, I stand corrected that was the four neck that you had found from years past.
And that was a great story you told about it.
My Favorite tune you did that day was Limehouse Blues.
Don

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 8 Jul 2001 1:11 pm

WOW![This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 08 July 2001 at 02:15 PM.][This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 08 July 2001 at 06:02 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 8 Jul 2001 1:17 pm

I'm no big deal of a steel player but I seem to stay pretty busy. One thing I think that works for me is I try not to judge the music I am working on . I feel like a guy that just loves to work on cars. I don't care if its an old junker or a BMW I am into making the car work better.

Bob

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 8 Jul 2001 1:30 pm

Your correct Bob, you can't judge the music your working on. It's not our place to anyway, ours is to make greater,no mater what we have to work with! IF YOU DON'T JUDGE THE MUSIC YOUR WORKING ON, YOU"LL HAVE MORE MUSIC TO WORK ON! Greatly said, as always Bob Hoffnar. Bobbe [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 08 July 2001 at 02:34 PM.][This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 08 July 2001 at 02:35 PM.]