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Topic: C# minor 9th |
Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2005 9:08 am |
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I play Paradise Isle in this tuning.
What other tunes go well with this tuning?
Many thanks, Rick |
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Dan Sawyer
From:
Studio City, California, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2005 10:51 am
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| Rick, I use a similar tuning. How do you tune yours? |
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George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
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Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2005 2:55 pm
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Dan, from high to low on eight string:
E-C#-G#-F#-E-D-B-E
It's a beautiful sound, it just seems I must hit a lot of single notes on some tunes __
nothing wrong with single notes, of course.
George, you are correct of course. I need to spend more time with this tuning. Sweet Someone fits it well.
Many thanks, Rick |
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Dan Sawyer
From:
Studio City, California, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2005 4:12 pm
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| Rick, we're talking about two different things. I would call your tuning an E 13th type. On top you've got a C# minor chord, but no 9th. My C# minor 9th tuning would be C#-E-G#-B-D#-F# low to hi, 6-string. I don't really play that tuning in C#, but i use down a whole step in Bmi9. |
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Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2005 4:53 pm
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| Note the F# 4th string. |
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Jeff Strouse
From:
Jacksonville, Florida, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2005 8:47 pm
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| For our shows, I play Aloha Tears, Sweet Someone, Twilight Blues, Boot Heel Drag, Paradise Isle and Song of the Islands in this tuning. I also like it for harmony background chordal fills. |
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Dan Sawyer
From:
Studio City, California, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2005 11:54 pm
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| Rick, i wasn't arguing with you; just saying we're talking about two different things. F# is the 9th of E. The 9th of C# would be D#. There seem to be many ways of naming tunings, but the most important thing is the way we think and visualize the tunings. Some folks would see your tuning as an E tuning, some as C# minor. In the end of course, it's the music that matters. |
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Jay Jessup
From:
Charlottesville, VA, USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2005 4:40 am
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Dan,
The way Rick listed his version of the C#m9 tuning is exactly the way Jerry Byrd lists it in his book. |
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Danny James
From:
Summerfield Florida USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2005 5:12 am
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These tunings would work well with the eight string adjustable changer I have almost got completed for the lap steel I plan to build.
It will have three tunings at the present & could go to four. All tunings are adjustable to quickly raise or lower any string on any tuning. All done with the flip of a single lever.
The guitar will have either a gauged roller nut or an adjustable one.[This message was edited by Danny James on 20 March 2005 at 05:18 AM.] |
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Jeff Strouse
From:
Jacksonville, Florida, USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2005 10:39 am
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| Danny are you using the Hipshot Trilogy unit? |
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Danny James
From:
Summerfield Florida USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2005 1:04 pm
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No Jeff, this is not a trilogy hipshot changer or even close to their design nor anyone els's that I know of. Thanks for asking though.
This is a changer entirely of my own design. I have been working on it for 3 or 4 years now. It needs about 3 or 4 more hrs of work to be ready to install in a guitar. Just a few minor details to finish it up. I need to make and install a lever and put in the string holders yet. [This message was edited by Danny James on 20 March 2005 at 01:06 PM.] |
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Dan Sawyer
From:
Studio City, California, USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2005 1:35 pm
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Jay and Rick, now i'm really confused! If Jerry Byrd says that's a C#minor tuning, i can't disagree.
Danny, your changer sounds amazing. Please let us know when it's completed. hey, maybe you should think about selling them. |
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 20 Mar 2005 2:51 pm
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Dan, why can't you disagree?
I wouldn't call that tuning C#m9. You could argue that it's an inversion of C#m, but it's a very weak one considering the E bass notes. Even at that, with a D in the tuning, the designation's wrong already... it should be C#mb9 in that case.
The tuning is E13.
Personally I think the old timers just called it C#m because it sounded cooler. And maybe they still call it that because it's nostalgic. Show me someone who actually conceptualizes the tuning as a C#m chord (and not an E6 or E13) and I'll play my next gig wearing half a canteloupe on my head.
Rick, I second what Dan said... F# is the 9th of E, D# the 9th of C#.[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 20 March 2005 at 02:59 PM.] |
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Jeff Strouse
From:
Jacksonville, Florida, USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2005 4:49 pm
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Jeff, is this the same E13 version that Jules (and Barney) used? (I'm wondering if Jules put the "B" in there E-C#-B-G#, as opposed to the E-C#-G#).
I'm trying to figure out Jules's tunings used on the old Alfred Apaka show, which is quite a task!! Man, that cat could swing!![This message was edited by Jeff Strouse on 20 March 2005 at 04:56 PM.] |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 21 Mar 2005 2:36 am
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I think that with the F# as well, you can't possibly call it ANY variation of C#min.. the F# would make the designation C#m7b9sus4
E13 end of story..
Baz |
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Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2005 6:48 pm
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Dan, you are certainly correct F# is the 9th of E.
It isn't beyond me to admit that I don't know how this tuning came to be called C#m9th. 
Perhaps it evolved from another 6 string tuning, strings 7 & 8 were added, and the designation was kept the same.
Rick |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 21 Mar 2005 8:37 pm
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Rick WHO calls it C#m9th ?..I think that one man calling a tuning by a certain name doesn't mean that it's correct.. it probably means his musical theory is a bit away from the accepted norm..
Baz[This message was edited by basilh on 21 March 2005 at 08:40 PM.] |
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Dan Sawyer
From:
Studio City, California, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2005 12:10 am
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Rick, i bet you're right. It started out as C#minor and other strings were added. People just kept calling it C#mi. That theory makes the most sense.
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Dan Sawyer
Rickenbacher B6, Fender Dual Professional, Fender Deluxe 8 (trap), Fender "White" 6-string w legs, Carvin steel w HiseTri-plex.
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Jay Jessup
From:
Charlottesville, VA, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2005 7:12 am
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Basil & Co,
Jerry Byrd calls it that but that doesn't mean it's correct. They call the E9 pedal steel tuning chromatic when there's only one string that might be considered chromatic on it but it's been called that for so long it would be hard to change peoples mind now. I suspect it's just what others surmised, that the tuning Jerry calls C#m9 in his book evolved from something else. Wouldn't it need a B next to the C# to be called a E13? |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2005 7:19 am
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The one thing I don't like about the C#m family of tunings are the intervals between the 1-3 strings. When playing a melody line these intervals require much jumping around. The standard C6 tuning (CEGACE) requires much less bar movement for melodies.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 22 Mar 2005 7:48 am
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| Jay, I believe it just needs to have a 6th AND a 7th present anywhere in the tuning (or chord) to be termed a 13th. |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2005 8:39 am
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OK ... Y'all made me dig out my ol' JB course.
This course is designed to take a beginner and walk him/her through the "evolution" of steel tunin's ... introducing new playin' techniques and theory ... as they move from one "tuning/lesson set" to the next.
The C#m 9th tuning in Book One is Lesson #5 ...
It is immediately after the C#m lesson.
From the text ....
quote:
Again, we are simply adding to each tuning, as we proceed ...
quote:
Some chord theory explaination is necessary here, so that you may know what is meant by a "9th" (ninth) chord. Again we number the notes in the scale of E (still our basic open string chord).
E 1
F# 2
G# 3
A 4
B 5
C# 6
D# 7
(E) 8
(F#) 9
This continues to explain 9th chords, their inversions and their relationships to other chords.
So, as you see ... he's teaching the beginner what a 9th chord is ... and is using the key of E ... to do so.
He simply is using the C#m designation for "continuity" in his lesson plan ... because he's just adding a "new note" to the previous lessons tuning ...
He does explain that the F# is the "ninth" in an E scale/chord.
His treatment of the E13 tuning ... doesn't occur until Book 2 / Lesson 2 ... no F# present.
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Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 22 March 2005 at 08:59 AM.] |
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 22 Mar 2005 9:00 am
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| Hey, Baz was right... some people do make up their own theory. Way to confuse the beginner... or at least set him/her up for some future head scratchings. [This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 22 March 2005 at 09:00 AM.] |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2005 9:41 am
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| Quote: |
| some people do make up their own theory. Way to confuse the beginner... or at least set him/her up for some future head scratchings. |
No wonder I can't play wortha sh*$ ...
That f^@&!#g a$$#$&e JB and his g@&&*m Lesson 5
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Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield [This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 22 March 2005 at 09:47 AM.] |
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