Weissenborn Tone Questions

Tim Tweedale · Post by **Tim Tweedale** » 25 Feb 2005 8:57 am

I play one of Neil Russell's Celtic Cross Weissenborns and I like the instrument a lot. One major factor that affects tone is the material of the saddle, as that is what transmits sound directly to the body. Neil's saddles are bone. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the original Herman Weissenborn saddles were brass? I played a fellow forumite's Lazy River Weissenborn, (w/ brass saddle) and it had a real bite to it which I liked. Any comparative comments on the material of the saddle? I'm thinking of switching. Right now I'm finding the bone a little mellow.

I was listening to Ben Harper's debut album "Welcome to the Cruel World" yesterday for the first time in a long time and was just noticing the unique and sweet Weissenborn tones he's getting on the first track "The Three of Us" and also the solo from "Breaking Down"... Anyone know what kind of guitar he's using for this? Possibly the so-called "teardrop" Weissenborn? I love that sound! Do any builders currently make these?

-Tim

Anita Merritt · Post by **Anita Merritt** » 25 Feb 2005 5:28 pm

I've been looking at the Asher lap steels for close to a year now. They are pretty pricey. That's what Ben Harper is probably playing as Bill Asher has produced a Ben Harper signature Electro Hawaiian model. They now have two models of acoustic lap steels. I was looking at the Teardrop last year, but the price has gone so high

I don't think I'm gonna buy one. Now I'm looking at the Goldtone Weissenborn which is less than half the price of an Asher, but now I'm wondering as it has a bone nut also. The Asher models have ebony nuts. Here's a link to the Asher website. http://www.asherguitars.com/home.html

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 25 Feb 2005 5:39 pm

Tim - the saddle in my Lazy River is actually a strip of fretwire, which is what I also believe was used in many vintage Weissenborns. How much that contributes to the sound of the LR is hard for me to say, as there are so many other differences between the Lazy River and the Celtic Cross I used to own. I agree that the CC sounds a lot more mellow than the LR,- I wish I could have kept them both, but in the end I had to make a choice and stuck with the LR.
I believe all of Harpers work on "Welcome To The Cruel World" was done on vintage Weissenborns.

Anita,- if you're looking into a Weissenborn under $1K I'd recommend a Superior over a GoldTone. The comments I've seen so far, from players who's tested the GT, has been far from favorable. The Superiors are really nice sounding instruments if you can cope with the extra wide string spacing.
Or - you can wait it out and see what pops up on eBay.......

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 25 February 2005 at 05:40 PM.]

Ben Sims · Post by **Ben Sims** » 25 Feb 2005 6:06 pm

Unless my ears deceive me, isn't that actually a dobro that he's playing for the solo parts on both of those tracks? He's listed as playing dobro as well as Weissenborn in the album credits, and it sure sounds like a resonator guitar to me. Which would be a good thing, because it's probably a lot easier to get your hands on a resonator guitar than a teardrop Weissenborn. [This message was edited by Ben Sims on 25 February 2005 at 06:13 PM.][This message was edited by Ben Sims on 25 February 2005 at 06:14 PM.]

Anita Merritt · Post by **Anita Merritt** » 25 Feb 2005 6:53 pm

Thanks for the recommendation, Steinar!

Tim Tweedale · Post by **Tim Tweedale** » 26 Feb 2005 1:25 am

Yeah, I was wondering if that was it too. It does sound pretty resonator-ish, doesn't it, but so warm!
Thanks all for the comments on saddle materials too. I'm going to talk with Neil about switching over. I'm a little worried about lessening the breakover angle... but we'll see.
Incidentally, I recently heard one of his baritone Weissenborn and it completely blew my mind.

-Tim

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 26 Feb 2005 7:17 am

Well Tim,

I wonder if it was my soon to be delivered baritone you heard: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/006551.html

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 26 Feb 2005 7:23 am

I play a Superior Weissenborn, however, I took it to a luthier and had the string spacing narrowed down both at the bridge and the nut. It is a very nice instrument, both in looks and tone. Much nicer than the Gold Tone.
Erv

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 26 Feb 2005 7:43 am

I've read that all production Weissenborns had fretwire saddles and most of the pictures I've seen appear to support that. I have a c. 1917 Knutsen which also has a wire saddle.

Unless the specs have changed, Superior uses bone for both the nut and saddle. It's highly polished and appears at a glance to be plastic.

Bill Leff · Post by **Bill Leff** » 26 Feb 2005 8:16 am

I replaced my Superior's plastic saddle with one my guitar tech made out of steel. Big improvement in terms of "zingy-ness"

Ed Gerhard · Post by **Ed Gerhard** » 26 Feb 2005 10:00 am

Hi-
Weissenborns indeed used fretwire for the saddles, although I have a Style 1 that has an aluminum saddle. Unusual.
Bill Asher is making Weissenborn guitars now, and I played a couple at the NAMM show in January. He had a Style 1 and a teardrop model; both sounded great but I was really taken with the teardrop. I played an original teardrop once and was smitten, and Asher's teardrop sounded very similar. I don't remember now what he is using for saddles or what his prices are, check his website. I was surprised to learn from Billy that the bridges on original Weissenborns were made of maple, not koa as I'd always assumed.
Cheers,
Ed

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 26 Feb 2005 10:29 am

Here are the specs for Asher's teardrop model:

* scale length: 25 inches
* top: african mahogany
* back & sides: african mahogany
* bracing: spruce
* wood options: flamed figured koa with rope binding (up charge)
* fret board: rosewood
* bridge: rosewood
* saddle: aluminum
* nut: ebony
* finish: satin; (gloss lacquer available with up charge)
* string spacing: nut: 1 7/8 inches, bridge: 2 3/8 inches
* case: custom hard shell
* number of frets: 21
* machine heads: Goto - Waverly style
* strings: Asher Acoustic Hawaiian Lap Steel Strings
* price in US dollars:
* $1700 - Style I
* $3500 - Style IV

Sigh......

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 26 February 2005 at 10:34 AM.]

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 26 Feb 2005 11:40 am

My Bear Creek has a steel saddle. I played a couple of Gold Tone Weissenborns just yesterday and was very unimpressed with their sound.

Mike D · Post by **Mike D** » 26 Feb 2005 11:51 am

At the risk of sounding too 'spammy' (but what's life without risks?

) I'm game to make a teardrop. Right now I have Koa, Mango, Walnut, and some quilted Mahogany. Also have some wild flamed Redwood for tops.

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Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.

Terry VunCannon · Post by **Terry VunCannon** » 26 Feb 2005 1:00 pm

Hi Andy...Which Goldtones did you play???
The LM or SM models?

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 26 Feb 2005 1:55 pm

LM & SS, I believe.

Bill Blacklock · Post by **Bill Blacklock** » 26 Feb 2005 3:27 pm

Hi Tim,
I put brass bridge pins (Elderly instruments) in my "Celtic Cross" weissenborn and it brought the tone up to were I wanted it, I was thinking of trying a brass saddle but thought it might make the tone a little to shinny. It would be interesting to try, the best sounding acoustic guitar I've ever heard was a Yamaki with a brass nut and saddle.

Speaking of tone I put a Sunrise pickup in my "Celtic Cross" Baritone weissenborn (also has brass bridge pins). I run the sunrise to a Y cable, line "1" goes to a Boss BD-2 Blues driver pedal and to cannel "1" at the amp (AC-60),line "2" goes to a Boss GE-7 EQ and to channel "2" at the amp. The sound is similar to a dragster coming of the line at full throttle.

I had Neil @ "Celtic Cross" talked into buiding me a tear drop weissenborn last fall but later decided on a baritone, maybe next time, or what do you think about a 12 string weissenborn?
Bill

Travis Bernhardt · Post by **Travis Bernhardt** » 26 Feb 2005 4:04 pm

Bill M--the baritone guitar was one he built to send to Rufus Guitar Shop in Vancouver. I played it for about an hour in the store, and when I stopped I was feeling all high and buzzy. One of Tim's students apparently bought it later the same day! I played it plugged in with a Fishman Rare Earth pickup, but I'd love to hear one through a Sunrise.

Bill B--I play a cheap twelve string guitar with a raised nut, and think it sounds great. The guitar itself sounds bad, but the twelve string thing works very well. If you've heard Kelly Joe Phelps' album Roll Away the Stone you'll know how good lap style twelve string guitar can sound.

I've considered having a fourteen string baritone guitar built. I love the baritone guitar, and I think that seven strings is best for it. So, a fourteen string baritone guitar sounds like the ideal "I am God" axe, to me.

-Travis

Bill Blacklock · Post by **Bill Blacklock** » 26 Feb 2005 5:28 pm

Travis,
I had a 20 something (never counted)string Indian acoustic lap steel kicking around here for a while. It was great until it went out of tune, I seem to have enough trouble with six strings in different tunings. Bill