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Topic: Hawaiian Steel Vol 3 - Byrd's Nest |
basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 6:29 am |
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There are 30 second clips of all the tunes on www.mele.com
I just got my copy of this disk and it's great! Nice assortment of tunes in different styles; Hawaiian, Swing, Latin. Recording quality is excellent and the musicianship is awesome.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 11:16 am
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It might be necessary to point out to some that Byrd's Nest was played in the D9 tuning. C#–E–F#–A–C–E
At least the version that I learned.
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“Big John” Bechtel |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 1:33 pm
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I beg to differ on the recording quality of the album. It has a harsh, highly digital quality in my ears. None of the instruments have any natural ambience. Lots of close-miking and direct sounds.
I wish Hawaiian music producers would wake up and learn something from the way a lot of Bluegrass music is being recorded nowadays.
Let acoustic instruments be acoustic. Let them breathe, resonate. Is it so hard?
But that's just my opinion. [This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 17 January 2005 at 01:35 PM.] |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 2:56 pm
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Jeff,
I just went back and listened to the disk.
I agree with you on the acoustic guitars. It sounds like they have Piezo pickups that were fed directly into the board. Typically Piezo's have a brittle "quackiness" to their tone. But if you listen to the tunes which feature Hiram Olsen on rhythm guitar the tone is much warmer. I'm pretty sure he uses an arch-top with a traditional magnetic pickup (correct me if I'm wrong).
A lot of people like the Piezo sound though and contemporary ears are used to that sound.
Many contemporary Hawaiian recordings have this Piezo acoustic guitar sound. Jeff, is there a reason this sound is so prevalent in both contemporary Hawaiian recordings AND live performance? Are these the most easily obtainable type of guitars in the islands?
Here's an idea. Aesthetically the Piezo is much more pleasing in a round-hole acoustic guitar. It can be completely hidden under the saddle and still maintain the “political correctness” of the acoustic. The magnetic pickup is an obvious piece of metal or plastic spanning the hole and "ruining" the acoustic persona.
Do you want to look good or feel good?
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 17 January 2005 at 02:57 PM.] |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 3:08 pm
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| I've just noticed that Greg is playing on both the numbers I've criticised... all I can say is that I know him to be a MUCH better player than what's heard here.. I must presume that the producer didn't produce or that they were in a hurry to finish the job.. either way, not the "Way to go" IMHO |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 3:09 pm
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Basil,
This is music, it's an art, it's a personal interpretation. Is there a "right" way to play the tune?
What's the goal here? Clone Jerry Byrd's original performance to a tee? That's a no win situation. If you fail to clone the performance with note for note, same phrasing perfection people will say that you screwed up and laugh at your pitiful attempts. If you clone the original recording, accurately reproducing every nuance of the perfomance people will accuse you of being a Jerry Byrd wannabee with no soul of your own.
Even JB says play from your heart, make the music your own.
wait until you hear my next "Traditional Hawaiian" steel recording on the HSGA website. Talk about not playing it right 
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 17 January 2005 at 03:13 PM.] [This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 17 January 2005 at 03:14 PM.] |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 3:12 pm
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With respect Gerald .You know yourself that the melody of Wave as played here is WRONG .. there is no other way to say it.. as is Adventures in Paradise..AND the chords used.. You simply can't re-write the song to suit your capabilities ..
they are songs you know, with lyrics that should be respected..If I was the composer I would sue for "Parodied" version..[This message was edited by basilh on 17 January 2005 at 03:12 PM.] |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 3:16 pm
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With regard to
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| Is there a "right" way to play the tune? |
NO, there probably isn't but there is a right order of the notes of the tune.. embelish ..YES.. re-write NO..
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 3:30 pm
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Basil,
Here's a good example of playing a song wrong.
The original recording of the Motown tune 'I Heard It Through The Grapevine" was done by Gladys Knight And The Pips. It was a moderate hit. That would be considered the right way to play the song or the baseline for the tune. I'm sure sheet music was published of this arrangement.
A little while later Marvin Gaye recorded the same song. Marvin slowed it down, turned many major chords into minor and added a prominent conga drum beat.
Who's version was the bigger hit? Marvin's!
Did Marvin play the tune wrong?
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 3:31 pm
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In "Hana Hano" on the second bar of the subdominant chord they us a 4m (Minor) but the CORRECT melody note is the sixth note of the tonic's scale the MAJOR third of the 4 chord...NO other way but to look at it as a Wrong note..certainly not what the composer wrote or intended , and the use of the minor in that place changes the whole feel of that section, again not what the composer intended..How can you justify WRONG notes, just to be different ?
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 3:33 pm
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| Gerald .. your analogy is not valid.. we're talking about tunes or rather songs that have "Definative" versions already accepted.. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 3:42 pm
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 3:46 pm
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Basil,
I love Hawaiian music. I love Hawaiian steel guitar. My love for the the steel guitar and Hawaiian music has at times reached "divorce level" intensities. But as much as I hate to admit it "I Heard It Through The Grapevine" is a much more widely known and accepted tune than "Hano Hano Hanalei".
Gladys Knight's version was out for a long time and was widely accepted as the "way to play it" before Marvin Gaye took a swing at it.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 17 January 2005 at 04:52 PM.] |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 3:54 pm
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| You are correct Ger, BUT it still doesn't excuse the changing of the chords and melody of a tune..to say there is no right or wrong way of playing a tune or song is the easy way out of this discussion... a wrong note or chord is nothing other than wrong.. how can you look at it any other way..? |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 4:09 pm
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When you are learning a song you can do it in many ways. One way is to learn the "correct" way with all the right notes in the right places and all the chords exactly as the sheet music lists (let's not get into a discussion on mistakes in sheet music). Another way is to just "get the feel" of the tune.
The "get the feel" approach will yield quicker results but not be true to the original intention of the composer. Many times musicians go for this approach if they do not have the musical chops to "play it right". Greg, Paul, Casey and Alan all have the musical chops. They knew they were changing chords and notes. I am sure it was a conscious decision.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 4:09 pm
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Substantially the melody but not correct and altered in some noticeable way, would qualify a recording as a "Parody" and as such FORBIDDEN by the author..and publisher..unless specifically released, which I presume is what happened with "The Grapevine" .. permision HAD to be obtained..or a law suit would have followed pretty quickly..
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 4:25 pm
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| Gerald.. I have the utmost respect for you as a person .. and your untiring effort with regard to the HSGA web site is to be applauded, as is your loyalty to the aforementioned players, BUT, they are NOT beyond reproach, as indeed neither are any of us..I think you're defending them admirably, it's a pitty they haven't a presence on the "Forum" we could take the matter up with them directly.. I stand by what I say regarding the apparent lack of care with the recording.. |
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George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 4:28 pm
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| Picky, picky, picky! Sorry Baz, I'm with Gerald on this one. Recently I heard a great rendition of the immortal "STARDUST" on FM radio...never caught the name of the artist. But man, it was beautiful even though it was very difficult to assertain the actual melody line of the original song...it kept coming and going yet was very interesting. I feel that's what music is all about....chord substitutions and melodic changes. In another word "ORIGINALITY". I highly respect your opinion, however I do feel Gerald has the right idea on this topic. JMHO. [This message was edited by George Keoki Lake on 17 January 2005 at 04:29 PM.] |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 4:36 pm
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But,
to look at it another way, isn't it nice that they put together a tribute to J.B. By calling the album and themselves "Byrd's Nest"
I know for a fact the Greg's studio is quite comprehensive, so the CD probably wasn't recorded there....and as to who produced it, I don't know.. maybe, if you've the album you can post the credits.. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 4:51 pm
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Nice to see your slant on this one George..My opinion of what you describe as "Very Interesting" in your example, I would probably take the version of Stardust to be aimed at an educated musician rather that the vox populi.. the man in the street doesn't hear things the way trained musicians do..All too often we can get sidetracked by imrovisation and embelishments, to the extent that the real melody is lost.. you even say
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| t was very difficult to assertain the actual melody line of the original song |
and you are an experienced musician.. so what chance has the average listener ? I always thought that "Originality" was more to do with style rather than the ability to alter a tune...
I am straying....If you use the wrong words or melody of a song, you're in breach of copyright.. now you can say that leaves improvised versions up to scrutiny.. not so in the case of expert players.. who usually establish the CORRECT melody before improvising and changing it.
In the above cases , I challenge you to listen to Adventures in Paradise or Hoe Hoe and say that they're correct..go on do it !!
here http://www.mele.com/v3/info/3025.htm |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2005 5:40 pm
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Back again Gerald, I'm just like the proverbial "Bad Penny"
As you may know, I work with a BBC presenter Bob Brolley MBE. and both Bob and myself have experienced the "Beeb's" philosophy re gender...."out of gender" songs are NOT allowed in daytime broadcasting except for BBC Radio 2.. (The POP station) I think that says it all...On live Television in the UK you can say F***k but the EBU insists on a "Profanity Delay" for live radio ... figure that one
Have we strayed a little off topic.. probably the best way to go..
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