C#m tuning

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 12 Jan 2005 10:01 pm

I have been fooling around with this tuning,and wondered when it was first used.
Some of Dick McIntire's stuff sounds like that tuning to me. I really would like to get into it, but it's slow goin'

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 12 Jan 2005 10:12 pm

Bill- We used to use that C#m tuning way back in the 30's. Pretty good for Hawaiian tunes. We used to use a lot slants too in those days. ....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Don Kona Woods · Post by **Don Kona Woods** » 12 Jan 2005 10:39 pm

Hi Bill,

Not only did Dick McIntyre use C#m tuning, but the ever versatile, virtuoso Sol Ho'opii used C#m tuning as well. I believe that it was his primary tuning for all of his performances.

In fact Sol used this tuning as the basic tuning to teach Bud Tutmarc the Hawaiian steel guitar in the 1940's. Bud is a well known steel guitarist from Seattle Washington. Of course he uses C#m tuning as his primary tuning.

Aloha no.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 12 Jan 2005 11:00 pm

Actually, DICK McINTIRE seemed to prefer the F#9th format which is similar to C#m but
has a nicer bass setup. Listen closely to many of his recordings and you'll detect F#9....
HI to LO: E C# G# E A# F#. Bud Tutmrc has always used the C#m tuning as stated above.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 13 Jan 2005 11:06 am

Hi Bill. I'm in the process of writing a book on this tuning. I use this tuning 80% of the time; the rest of the time I play E and high bass A. There's alot in there if you're willing to look.

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www.mikeneer.com

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 13 Jan 2005 2:29 pm

Thanks all you guys for the info. It sounds like that tuning was used before the advent of electric steels.
I will get one your books when you have them available Mike.
I ordered vol 7 of Dick McIntires's series from Cumquat/Bruce Clark, when I heard a sample and thought it was the C#M tuning, and I'll try the tuning you brought up George.
Regards BILL

Chuck Halcomb · Post by **Chuck Halcomb** » 13 Jan 2005 4:39 pm

Herb Remington wrote Bootheel Drag for the C# minor tuning. I originally learned it in E7, but I really like the way it plays and sounds with the C# minor tuning.

I am also now playing around a lot with it. I love the many different voicings one can get with this tuning.

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Remington Steel T-8 Steelmaster
Gibson Console Grande

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 13 Jan 2005 9:40 pm

By C#minor tuning, are you talking about it tuned this way, treble to bass?

E
C#
G#
E
C#
G#

I haven't really played with that tuning myself.

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

Mike Fried · Post by **Mike Fried** » 13 Jan 2005 10:39 pm

The "pure" C#m tuning is as stated, G# to E, low to high. This is easily derived from the high-bass A tuning by simply flatting the A's to G#. The more popular version, though, was E-B-E-G#-C#-E (low to high), derived from the E tuning by raising the second string B to C#. This was the tuning used by Sol, Danny Stewart, and Dick's early '30s recordings, I believe. Each has its advantages, the former having three sets of octaves and closer intervals in the bass, while the latter has the extended low range and strong root-fifth-root bass voicing for comping.

My personal favorite in that family is Dick McIntire's F#9 in six or seven-string versions. The seven string version adds a C# between the fourth string E and the A#. This closes the biggest interval gap in the six string version and provides a second octave pair (E and C#) for melody work. As you can see, all these tunings share the same top four strings, so if you can play one well, you can play them all with little extra work.

The F#9 tuning relates to the C#m/E6 tuning just like the B11 relates to A6, the flatted 5th giving a II9 (or 11) chord. The same can be done with C6 - flatting the fourth string G to F# yields a D9 tuning. I use this formula, on single-necks especially, as a great way to expand the possibilities of a given 6th tuning with minimal relearning.

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 14 Jan 2005 6:03 am

Mike Neer...

You're writing a book on C#m? Great! If you can, please include an audio CD of the examples and exercises in the book. Personally I find learning anything from tab a long and tedious process if I don't have an audio example to work from. Frequently I just give up.

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website

[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 14 January 2005 at 06:06 AM.]

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 14 Jan 2005 7:28 am

When I say C#m, I'm really just talking about Sol's tuning of E C# G# E B E -- call it E6 if you like. There are many interesting variations on the E tuning. Andy Iona had quite a few of his own.

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www.mikeneer.com

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 14 Jan 2005 7:42 am

Interesting thread
I couldn't get my strings down that far.

What gauges are you reccomending?

I did find this tuning while I was trying the C#m
low to high
B D E G# C# E

C#m crossed with the E7
At least it works with the strings I have[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 14 January 2005 at 07:52 AM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 14 Jan 2005 8:23 am

On my C#minor tuning, I like to include a B as the 3rd string.
Erv

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 14 Jan 2005 8:33 am

Gerald, I'm almost inclined not to use tab, because I think it can sometimes hinder a person from exploring other possibilities. I'll definitely use standard notation and I'll probably use tab, but only out of popular demand. I just think you learn the guitar better without it. I'll most definitely use audio.

David, the tuning you mention is E13.

Erv, I only play six strings--I just like it alot better for what I do.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 14 Jan 2005 9:21 am

Seems I keep naturally gravitating to E13, for some reason.

I just tried Ervs suggestion, It sits on the strings better tension wise.
Low to High C# E G# B C# E
A combination of C#m7 and E6
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 14 January 2005 at 09:58 AM.]

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 14 Jan 2005 10:51 am

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 14 Jan 2005 12:16 pm

David,
Yes, that's correct. It's a C#m7 or E6th. I have that tuning on one of the necks on my Stringmaster. I like it a lot. It works out real well with an 8 string neck.
Erv

Stephan Miller · Post by **Stephan Miller** » 14 Jan 2005 1:12 pm

Erv-- could you spell out your 8-string version of this tuning? Thanks. -Steve

Fernando Fernandez · Post by **Fernando Fernandez** » 14 Jan 2005 3:10 pm

By the way, Somebody knows if Sol Hoopii already began to use C#m in
his pre-electrical recordings? In the discs that I have, I am not able
to identify that tuning in his recordings with the National. Most of
the material of that period seems to be in A high bass.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 14 Jan 2005 8:14 pm

The C#M tuning seems to have a melancholy type mood to it, or maybe something else I can't describe. I wasn't very aware of until hearing people at the steel guitar clubs conventions using it. Anyway I'm enjoying getting accoustomed to it. Thanks to all for the insights and comments.
Best Regards BILL

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 16 Jan 2005 2:26 am

Is there any tab for this tuning?

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 16 Jan 2005 7:44 am

Stephan,
If I'm not mistaken this is how I tune an eight string, C#m7th tuning, from hi to lo:
E C# B G# E B G# E.
I have always uses an E for the hi string. I never liked a G# in this tuning or a hi G in the C6th, for that matter.
The reason I particularly like this tuning is because it is kind of a combination of the A and E tunings. In effect, you are doing the same thing with the E9th pedal tuning. With the E & C# on the first two strings you can get some neat slants.
Erv[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 16 January 2005 at 07:48 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 17 Jan 2005 1:20 am

Yesterday I wrote arranged and recorded something for lapsteel in this C#m tuning.
I haven't listened to it today, but will eventually.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 19 Jan 2005 5:59 am

Well here is that little piece for Supro 6 in C#m
Erv's tuning E C# B G# E B G# E.
http://worldserver4.oleane.com/canardplus/Musique/HoopiiDoopii.mp3
2 steel parts in the old F. Champ, and a short electric mandolin solo from the Transfex amp.

Not at all typical for this tuning I suspect.
I have been sick and haven't written and recorded anything since august, but at least this came out as an entire thing. More an exercise in jazz, not hawaiian.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 19 January 2005 at 06:02 AM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 19 Jan 2005 9:39 am

David,
You did that tuning PROUD!

Erv