Non pedal steel = Gigs !

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 30 Nov 2006 9:36 am

I've been finding there seems to be plenty of work available for playing old style steel. I have found there is a whole early jazz scene playing Django type stuff, early swing and blues along with the more standard western swing, rockabilly and Hawaiian. Pedalsteel just doesn't work for those guys. Plus the early jazz type gigs tend to pay pretty well. I was just looking at my calendar for dec and almost half of my work is with the stringmaster.

Another great thing is playing piles of 3 hour early jazz type gigs on only an 8 string C6 lap steel is making me into a much stronger musician.

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Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 30 Nov 2006 9:43 am

Send some my way.

Gary Lynch · Post by **Gary Lynch** » 30 Nov 2006 9:49 am

The non pedal is reemerging back into the light. It's as versatile as you want it to be. Keep on keeping on.

I'm waiting to hear a lap steel on a Tom Waits recording. Make it sing, talk, cry, and sound like a train whistle.[This message was edited by Gary Lynch on 30 November 2006 at 09:56 AM.]

Rick Batey · Post by **Rick Batey** » 30 Nov 2006 10:08 am

.[This message was edited by Rick Batey on 02 December 2006 at 04:38 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 30 Nov 2006 11:09 pm

One thing I have bumped into with the trad style players is that having the right instrument makes a big difference. I could play the same notes on the C neck of my pedal steel but its just not the same as the vibe that comes off a stringmaster. I'm no hot shot on the lap steel but have been having fun with it anyway.

One instrument that I think would open up some more doors would be an old tri cone. Did National ever make an 8 string metal reso ?

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Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 30 Nov 2006 11:39 pm

I've been playing the old jazz and Django stuff out here on my weissenborn. I tune to C6 and use a fishman (or is it fishbern) pu. The stuff goes over great. I'm not strong enough to work alot yet. But I'm coming along. Actually, it's a weissenborn style Superior. I'm trying to sound better on electric. But I'm saving up for a tricone. Best part is that I love this stuff myself.

Matt Lange · Post by **Matt Lange** » 1 Dec 2006 11:23 am

I love the gypsy jazz stuff, but have only played a teeny bit on lap steel. The whole theory of it is a bit over my head. How would one go about starting to play in that style on steel?

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my music: www.myspace.com/mattlangemusic

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 1 Dec 2006 11:55 pm

I'm well grounded in both jazz and classical theory. It's just applying it to the guitar that I find difficult. Gypsy jazz is generally played too fast I think. It would be well worth anybody's time to learn as much about theory as possible. Especially for playing in minor keys as Gypsy jazz often is. There must be some good books out on the subject. But having done all my studying many years ago, I can't help with names or authors. As you are reading about it, find the structures you read about on the guitar. practice them till you know them backwards and forwards, blindfolded handcuffed in a straight jacket in the dark. That last part is what I'm still working on. [This message was edited by Edward Meisse on 01 December 2006 at 11:58 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 2 Dec 2006 8:18 am

Matt,
How I sneak by as a lap steel player is mostly by playing melodicly. I learn the melody of the tune first. Then I start on the chords. Once I have the chords in my head I try to make the melody note the top note of whatever chord I'm playing. That gets me a little chord melody.
I haven't found any shortcuts though. It seems like there is no way around needing to learn scales and chords and how they work in tunes. I don't have time to learn all the songs that get tossed at me by rote.

One thing I do different than many players is I don't wait till I have it together to put myself out there. I just get up and hack away as best I can. If I stink up the place to bad they can always fire me.

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Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 2 Dec 2006 9:20 am

That was a great reply, Bob. I'm playing alot of single string stuff and at this point don't play out wery much. But I do take your same approach to the material. And I do take risks in putting myself out there. I'm glad to hear it's working for you. So far, it is for me, too.

Marc Weller · Post by **Marc Weller** » 2 Dec 2006 9:41 am

I whip out my lap steel at jazz gigs for one or two songs a set (I'm otherwise the guitarist). How High The Moon, Sentimental Journey, Just Friends, Jersey Bounce are some of the tunes I've worked out in C6. One of these days I'll learn Leavitt. The steel is always a crowd pleaser but the pianist hates it.

MW
Here's an example

http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=103394&key=7962FCF0-9

Terry Farmer · Post by **Terry Farmer** » 2 Dec 2006 9:44 am

Here's a great local band that plays the gypsy jazz genre among other things. I saw 'em live. The bass player kicks a$$. The rest of the band is great also. A reso would compliment this group in a big way! http://www.myspace.com/lechatlunatiquetheband[This message was edited by Terry Farmer on 02 December 2006 at 09:46 AM.]

Henry Nagle · Post by **Henry Nagle** » 2 Dec 2006 11:24 am

When I first got an electric lap steel I was playing guitar a lot with a classic country cover band. My steel was a single 8 C6. My approach at the time was to play only chords and try to make it sound strong by virtue of feel and phrasing.

Hey Edward! I'm here in Santa Rosa too. Have we met before? Maybe I can talk you into showing me some of that jazz stuff sometime?

[This message was edited by Henry Nagle on 02 December 2006 at 11:26 AM.]

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 2 Dec 2006 11:33 am

One thing that helps is playing a tunig that gives you many chords especially altered dominant chords. The 8 string tuning I use is a good one. In the key of C it looks like this: Low to high...Bb, C#, E, G, A, C, E, B(1/2 step below the C or third string). If you do a chord chart for this tuning you'll find
many useable chords. The bottom four notes make a diminished chord which is four different non-root dominant 7th chords. The other notes in the tuning provide altered tones for the 4 dominant chords the diminished chord makes. I'll repost a sample of this tuning if I can. Don

Dan Sawyer · Post by **Dan Sawyer** » 2 Dec 2006 4:06 pm

Bob, that's great. Have you ever tried a Fender with the trapazoid pickup? I would think that sound would work better for the styles of music you're doing.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 2 Dec 2006 6:06 pm

Marc, that recording was terrific!!

What chordal playing does in the BACKGROUND of these tunes is what is so great. That is something I really need to work on. Steel without pedals is absolutely unexcelled at background leads. To me it has the same impact as adding the bass to a group that has none. Henry, check your email. Don, I've thought about using something like that. I'll look at yours closely. Y'know if you put a B natural on the bottom, you get a half diminished 7 chord, which is very common. I've thought of having C#, B and Bb as the 6,7 and 8 string.[This message was edited by Edward Meisse on 02 December 2006 at 06:25 PM.][This message was edited by Edward Meisse on 02 December 2006 at 08:39 PM.]

Kevin Bullat · Post by **Kevin Bullat** » 2 Dec 2006 8:22 pm

Well, as far as lots of gigs and Hawaiian steel, I'd have to say there is a connection.

I was a standard guitar player of rock and what not for 25 years. Since moving up to Hawaiian steel guitar and playing in a Hawaiian/jazz band, I've had more gigs then ever. Period.

In my old rock days, if I played somewhere it was for free, and I felt like I really made out it I got $20 and a picther of beer.

Since playing steel in a Hawaiian band (ku'u Ipo!), we only pay top-dollar gigs with lots of great food, drink, and people all having a fun time.

(Not to imply that money is what it's all about, but it sure is nice to be compensated for all the blood, sweat and tears I've spent learning and learning and ...)

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 2 Dec 2006 8:57 pm

I get invited out for gigs and most of the younger band members don't know the difference between pedal or no pedals: nor do they notice difference in tones. They just hear a steel guitar.

I played a gig this past Wed. night at a Legion a few towns from me and the band leader was curious why my steel didn't have "all the other stuff" on it. He had never played with a steel behind him before: -26 years old-.

I will be back again for the next couple of Wednesdays. He must have liked the sound.

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 3 Dec 2006 6:02 am

I'm 26 and apologize on behalf of everyone my age.

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 3 Dec 2006 7:14 am

Jeff
No need to apologize ! Its your generation that will - IMO -
want more & more Steelguitar in there music .
I think Cindy Cashdollar has done more to bring the Steel ( W/O peds )
to the fore front than anybody !

Hick

Marc Weller · Post by **Marc Weller** » 3 Dec 2006 7:56 am

When I was 26 I was half as old as I am now. As for what Ed was saying about background parts for steel, I assume he is referring to comping while another instrument plays a lead melody or improvisational part. I play pedal steel in a country band with a singer that is very influenced by Willie Nelson. He has a very similar voice and does a lot of guitar solos where is simply plays the melody ala Willie. We do some standards like Crazy and All of Me, and a number of cowboy songs like Don't Fence Me In, You Are My Sunshine and so on. I play C6 pedal on these tunes and either we trade off half choruses or he plays a melody line on the leads. I frequently comp with sustained single notes or intervals that reflect the chord for that particulat bar of the song while he plays the melody. It's a nice sound. Similar to how a string section works in an orchestra.

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 3 Dec 2006 2:34 pm

Here's a song I recorded last year (and posted last year) using the 8 string tuning I recomend. There is no bar slanting in this tune. http://www.ehmz.org/ttt/music/HaveYourself.mp3

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 3 Dec 2006 3:39 pm

Very nice, Don.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 3 Dec 2006 5:07 pm

How I sneak by as a lap steel player is mostly by playing melodicly. I learn the melody of the tune first. Then I start on the chords. Once I have the chords in my head I try to make the melody note the top note of whatever chord I'm playing. That gets me a little chord melody.

Bob, I hosted a Gypsy Jazz Guitar workshop today at one of my stores. Stephane Wrembel taught the workshop. There were three guitars, a mandolin, and myself on dobro.

What you stated above is what the first part of the workshop was about. Not about scales against chords, but about inventing melodies from chord shapes.

It made a lot of sense and even the simplest arpeggios & motifs, in question & answer form are strong statements in this genre.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 3 Dec 2006 6:38 pm

Don McClellan,

Wonderful version!! Thank you for sharing that and your tuning.

Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Red guitars sound better!