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Topic: This S.O.B still can't absorb lightning! |
Ron Page
From:
Penn Yan, NY USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2004 12:41 pm |
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Well, almost 1 year to the day and my house got struck by lightning again. The PC and some of the same stuff needs to be repaired or replaced again. I guess the insurance company will be getting suspicious, eh?
This one looks like it struck the roof -- judging from a couple of "blown" shingles.
Last time I repaired my $1000 Dell box for about $250 in parts and a fair amount of my own labor. No software of data was lost. That hit took the mother board (w/integrated network), power supply and speakers.
I'm not sure how lucky I'll be this time. Guess I better add a good surge supressor this time. Funny though, my daughter's Dell hase survived both strikes w/o damage.
I guess we know who's living right and who's not.
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HagFan
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2004 1:04 pm
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| Do you have quality surge suppressors on both your computer and modem? If so, the good suppressors have guarantees to replace any equipment damaged by lightning or power surges. Another thing you could do is simply unplug everything when a storm is approaching. |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 13 Jul 2004 3:35 pm
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| Another thing you could do is simply unplug everything when a storm is approaching. |
if your around when a storm is a comin', believe me, that's the best and cheapest thing to do to protect your elektrikal appliances (unplug the fone and tv too !)
a simple method that is used to measure the amount of storm activity is to count how many times one hears thunder in a year.
here in the Pyrenees mountains it's about 30 - in the Alpes: 40 - some parts of Florida: 100 and 180 in South Africa !
anything over 25 is considered a risk area
the most common dammage caused by lightning is when it hits power lines and the surge comes through them.
(i've even seen it comin' up through the plumbing !)
power surge deepvices will work properly if the earth resistivity is right (20 ohms) their guarantee stipulates that the earth must be correct -
(this means creating a big zone of earth that will absorb the the current - 1 ground stake is NOT enough - more like 3/4/6 !
2 meters apart between each stake)
Phone lines also get hit and can bring surges too -
1 surge protector deepvice will not necessarily suffice -
first there should be one on your main elektrik board (where you have the breakers)- then adding others (series) to where you have your puter or other appliances that you want to protect (TV,Phone,etc)
this means spending $$$ and you won't have a total guarantee that your gear will be protected since lightning is VERY fast and VERY powerfull-
a direct strike by lightning on a house is rather rare BUT if you have a lot of storms in your area, something that is high like a TV antenna or even galvanized or aluminium gutters can attract lightning -these should be grounded to the same earth in your lektrik system - (equipotentiality)
Proper Earth for a lightning rod consists of 3 trenchs 1 meter deep by 10/15 meters long w: 5 mm copper bands in them w: a 2meter stake at the end of each trench. these 3 copper bands are joined to the lightning rod (Earth resistivity must be 10 ohms)
there are two types of lightning rods
an active model that sends and electrical impulse so as to attract lightning
or a passive model that just stands there waitin' for the lightning to hit it.
whichever ones are installed it's an expensive setup ! (the trenches and the gear)
Lightning is like a child - if you show him the way, he'll follow 
last but not least: the famous fireball or plasma that follows God knows what air current. it'll come in the door or the window and turn around someone or something and leave by flying up the chimney or go out through the back door -
this is the only phenoma that can't really be apprehended so please keep all doors and windows closed when storms are around.
i've seen trees and steeples that were struck by lightning and they kind of exploded and sent parts a flyin' quite far !
impressive.
God Bless Benjamin Franklin
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2004 5:16 pm
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Whenever I hear thunder or see lighning, I run and unplug all computers and the internet cable feeding it. I can't afford to lose data or computers anymore.
Brad Sarno |
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William Peters
From:
Effort, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2004 8:09 am
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When I was a kid, our house got hit by lightning several times a year. Our back fence was often the site of St. Elmo's fire, and once, we had ball lightning roll right through our house, in from the back door, out through the front door.
My dad got knocked about 30 feet across his shop when he tried to shut off the main circuit breaker during a bad t-storm.
Just a couple of months ago, I lost a cable modem, and my ethernet port in my laptop to lightning. The fun just doesn't stop
Brad, the trouble with unplugging is that it doesn't work when your not home.
I'm thinking the best thing to do is to put a 1 iron on top of the roof, because every golfer knows that even God can't hit a 1 iron 
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Bill
http://www.wgpeters.com
Cougar SD-10, PV-260, Tubefex, PV TNT-115, Gibson SG, Squier P-Bass, Berhinger V-amp Pro
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 14 Jul 2004 9:05 am
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You wanna unplug everything you can. BTW, Lightning doesn't have to hit the phone wires to take out phone gear, all it has to do is hit near a phone pole, and the induced spike will take out modems, phones, etc. downstream for quite a ways. Lost a Hayes 1200b modem in the '80's from this ($400).
Most surge protection power strips will only reimburse you for the cost of the power strip if they don't effectively protect your property.
Unplug the PC's, TV's, Radios, Satellite receivers, Phones (both power and phone cords). Once in a while it can be easier to just throw the main breaker to the house. Still, a good jolt can jump the breaker. 8 years ago lightning hit the pole next to the pole where my feed transformer is located. The surge protectors on the transformer were super overloaded and couldn't neutralize (shunt to ground) the whole surge. The zip blasted into the house and took out most everything that was turned on and some stuff that wasn't. |
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Doug Ferguson
From:
Burnet, Texas, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2004 11:10 am
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Yes, and read the fine print on the surge protector when you bought it. You generally have x number of days to send in your warranty information with serial numbers of all the equipment that is plugged into said surge protector that they are going to protect with the warranty. If you didn't send it in, you have no warranty! And it pays to buy the better, more expensive ones. Lightning hit our antenna on April 11, went down the copper wire into the attic, jumped to every piece of copper in the attic and tried to blow up everything attached to the cable tv wire in the house. Luckily, we were home and were able to put out the fire in the attic and bedroom with an extinguisher. The fire in the bedroom was one of those cheap 8 dollar power strips actually caught on fire and started a fire behind the dresser and up the wall. (the dresser had a sat receiver and tv on it that both got blown) Right under the lightning strike, in the living room, our entertainment center was located, with the big tv, vcr, and dvd recorder, all plugged into one of those $39 surge protectors that has the coax in and outs, phone in and outs on it. It was blown open under where the coax connectors were, but everything in the entertainment center was fine. In the attic it jumped across some ethernet cable (whole house was networked--yes, I'm a computer geek) and all the computers were unplugged from electricity and phone, as well as ethernet, except for my wife's computer. Her's had the power plugged in to electric, and had the ethernet plugged in, but was turned off. The lightning traveling through the ethernet cable BLEW THE FRONT OFF HER COMPUTER! Needless to say, the motherboard, power supply and most everything else was toast. However, her hard drive was ok so I salvaged it and slaved it into her new computer and all her data is still there. Very lucky, in soooo many ways.
When we are leaving, we unplug all of this stuff, and when we are going to bed and it might storm during the night, we unplug. Always have! This one just caught us slightly unprepaired. Thank God we were there! |
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Ron Page
From:
Penn Yan, NY USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2004 11:48 am
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Doug,
On the contrary. It sounds like you were quite prepared-- with a fire extinguisher and all. My strikes have been "mere flesh wounds" compared to your because I've never had any fire to deal with.
As far as the computer goes, my hard drive is fine and installed in the new computer as a 2nd drive. I think my computer damage is perhaps coming through the cable modem-- may go wireless for that-- because both hits have damaged the cable modem and my computer but not my daughter's, in the next room; her's wasn't connected to the internet. Now I'm running through a router.
I've also had the power company install a whole house surge protector. Of course, if the lightning jumps into the electricals through the attic, it's not apt to help. I'm going to upgrade my computer surge protector as well.
Funny how I get motivated after the SECOND lightning strike.
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HagFan
[This message was edited by Ron Page on 23 July 2004 at 12:50 PM.] |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 27 Jul 2004 4:11 pm
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Maybe the following will help.
1. NO known device ever created by man has every protected against a direct lightning hit.
2. Many devices carried the label "lightning protector" up until the early 70's. However, that term is illegal now because of item #1.
3. Contrary to popular belief, the surge protectors on the outside phone lines are NOT to protect the equipment, rather to help save lives. Most companies are much more concerned with lawsuits of personal injury (or death) than the cost of the equipment.
4. It takes 30,000 volts per inch for electrical current to flow in open air. One lightning strike can easily be several miles long. And some have been tabbed as high as 20 miles or more. This means that horrendous and humongously high voltages are present in even small strikes. This is why nothing known to man can stop a direct hit.
5. Such things as power companies providing "surge protectors" offer little protection against lightning. AND they know this. If you read the fine print; or if they must admit it, they will tell you they are simply talking about voltage fluctuations on the lines that is 100's of thousands times less than a single lightning strike.
When Jesus created this universe and specifically our precious planet, he ensconced it in "powers" man has NO way of stopping. Such as lightning, volcanic eruptions, hydraulic pressure, hydro static pressure, air pressure, expansion of metals, nuclear explosions, etc, etc.
What a mighty and awesome God we worship. Praise his holy name.
carl |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 27 Jul 2004 5:13 pm
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| Carl, not to pick nits, but the Station Class arresters you see at a power generating station (3 ft dia, 20 ft high, grey porcelain) can take a mild direct hit. They have to be able to protect the generator buried deep in the ground. I spent three years at McGraw Edison making them. Fun to test too, 1 million volt lab, faraday cage, lights out, sparks flying. Even more fun when you spray them down with salt water. [This message was edited by Ray Minich on 27 July 2004 at 06:15 PM.] |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 28 Jul 2004 12:08 am
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Carl, i beg to differ cause even tho lightning is very very powerful, a constant danger and unpredictable - a lightning rod does work and reduces risks.
surge protectors are not as efficient as a lightning rod but when installed in series can also reduce risks.
so that these gizmos work efficiently, what counts is the size and resistivity of the Earth and the equipotentiality of conductive objects -
granted that God's (or Nature's) manifestations are greater than anything we humans come up with, we do succeed in saving lives and reducing dammges to a great extent
[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 28 July 2004 at 01:09 AM.] |
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Ron Page
From:
Penn Yan, NY USA
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Posted 28 Jul 2004 5:09 am
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It may or may not work, but in addition to the power company surge protection at the meter I'm going to upgrade the one at my computer. I suspect part or all off the charge may have come through the cable modem. It got dusted both times as did my connected computer, whereas my daughter's computer rode through both strikes.
The labeling on the products does clearly promote lightning protection, but I have yet to read the fine print on the inside.
I'll probably install individual protectors for my garage door opener and sprinker controller. Then we'll have to wait an see. Nothing like a true field test to give us the answer; I'm skipping the salt water though, Ray.
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HagFan
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 28 Jul 2004 5:40 am
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you are correct in stating "reduces".
It is also correct to state that nothing known to man can stop a direct lightning strike.
Bit of trivia.
North of Orlando, Florida there is a large company that used to manufacture "lightning protectors". They still manufacture the same things, only they NO longer call them lightning protectors. Rather they call them "Surge Protectors". As does everyone else.
This company supplies SP's for much of the telephone industry (even baby-bells now) and much of the electrical industry. They got 'em as small as a dime and as large as a small building; and anywhere in between.
The reason they chose this area to locate their R & D as well as manufacturing facilities, is because this area is known as the "lightning capital of the US".
Because RCA was spending 100's of thousands of dollars on "lightning protectors" in our telephone switching sites, (only to have many of these sites hit repeatedly), the president of RCA insisted this company explain "WHY?"
There were 16 engineers from RCA that made the trip to find out "why?" What a revelation and educational experience that was. The first words out of the mouth of their chief design engineer was,
"Did you think lighting protectors were designed to protect the equipment?" When we nodded affirmatively, he let us have it. "NOTHING known to man will stop a direct lightning hit". He went on to say, "The best we can do is try to protect people! The equimpment is expendable!!!!"
44 hours later during the rest of that week, one theory after another fell by the wayside. For the first time in my career I finally understood "ground" or better the lack of "ground". Plus what it really meant; rather than what it's suppose to mean.
My boss was at a loss for words. He was one of the most brilliant engineers I have ever known. And at the end of that revealing week, he exclaimed,
"It is NO wonder the government made them STOP calling them lightning protectors!"
If the electrical, telephone or cable lines coming into a building take a direct hit, it is going to do catastrophic damage to that equipment. And the ONLY thing all the lightning protectors and all the ground rods in the world can do is to hopefully protect people in and around that building. Of coures there may be a reduction in the amount of equipment failure if SP's and grounding procedure are rigidly adhered.
But I have seen entire electronic switching systems blown to pieces with all of the recommended lightning and grounding procedures followed to the letter.
Thank God "people" can stand many more times the amount of current than delicate electrical equipment can. For if not, most of us would never have reached adulthood. Static electricity alone would have killed us very early indeed. And static electricity pervades the entire globe.
When static electricity builds high enough, lightning ensues (if there is any carrier such as water). And aint nuthun known gunna stop it
Do as others have suggested. UNPLUG it! 
carl |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 28 Jul 2004 7:45 am
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| Carl, you indeed do have a point! The products we made were called Station Class Surge Arresters and Distribution Class Surge Arresters, not "lightning protectors". As stated previously, the best lightning protector is a one iron |
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Doug Ferguson
From:
Burnet, Texas, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2004 8:15 am
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The antenna that "was" on my roof was for our wireless internet 802.11b. It wasn't grounded which was a real "shame". It was a 20' extension pole sitting in a tripod mount, with guy wires. The antenna took a direct hit, and apparently the lightning ran down or exploded down an ethernet cable, jumped across the satelite tv cables going into the attic and then went crazy in the attic with all the copper wire up there. It also vaporized the guy wires on two of the three sides. I found a couple places on my jeep windshield where the molten metal had stuck to it. Thankfully, it didn't land on the body of either car. I found small puddles of metal on the roof and on the ground where the guy wires had melted. I praise God every time I think of that lightning strike that he protected us and that we were there to put out those fires!
I now have a 50' extension pole setting in concrete, located 100' from the house with the 802.11b antenna and radio on top of it. Ethernet goes from there down the pole to a waterproof box below that houses my 802.11g wireless router. Electricity is run from an outdoor outlet which we unplug any time there is any threat of bad weather, even forecasted. Oh, at the top of the pole is a 4' 5/8" copper lightning rod, with a 1/4" copper ground going down to a burried copper strap that terminates into an 8' copper rod driven into the ground. I have grounds from the radios and the ethernet cables going to the main ground. In the house, my computers are using the wireless network and it works great. It was a little hairy getting that 50' pole extended and guyed by myself, but I did. I like not having all that wire running throughout the house, especially from the outside! My next step is to bury electric cable from the electric pole to the antenna pole and put a shutoff switch there, instead of plugging a 100' extension cord into the outdoor house outlet. Then it won't be directly connected to the house in case we forgot that one time to unplug it!
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Fergy, MSA Classic D12 |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 29 Jul 2004 8:37 am
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Doug, sounds like a good set up -
have you measured the Earths resistivity ?
it's quite important
for lightning 10 ohms, not above 10 dig ? |
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Doug Ferguson
From:
Burnet, Texas, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2004 11:38 am
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| No, I don't know how. I have a pretty good ohm meter, but have no idea how to use it for that... I'm all ears though! |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 30 Jul 2004 12:19 pm
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Doug, the best bet is to ask a (specialized) electrician if the size of the Earth is sufficient to absorb a direct hit and to measure that Earth's resistivity - it's measured in ohms - the lower the better - like i wrote above 10 ohms max for a lightning rod -
it's a special measuring device (battery operated generator) that uses 3 points: 2 spikes to create a Earth as a ref, and a 3rd, to compare w; the one you are using on your lightning rod.
if the measure is above 10 ohms, you'll have to dig more trench, add more copper strap and more rods ( 2 meters apart)
measure until it's gets down to 10 ohms.
like i wrote above a lightning rod necessitates 3 trenchs 1 meter deep(back hoe bro !)- 10 to 15 meters long w: a rod at each end and copper bands that meet up w; the lightning rod
check w: some electricians that specialize in lightning rods (that's just my line of work) not just surge arresters and household jobs-
if you're in need of advice or any help, gimme a shout Doug
[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 30 July 2004 at 01:22 PM.] |
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