New Computer w/set up problems

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

What steps would YOU take to partition a brand new 120 gig Hard Drive?

My 3 year old HP 5200C Scanner will not setup on my new computer. Can't get a new driver; will not use the USB cable and insists on the parallel cables; and to download the "utility" for it will take like 8 hours or more. SAY WHAT?

Any ideas will be gratefully appreciated.

Everett Cox · From: Marengo, OH, USA (deceased)

Ray-- FDISK will partition that drive with pretty simple steps. There are also other commercial app's like PartitionMagic that give more control and options. I would make at least 3 equal size partitions.

If you need step-by-step help with the drive, drop me a note. Though simple, the description might be lengthy.

As for the scanner, we'd need to know more about your machine. Windows? - version? Here is a link to HP's page for the scanner.
http://search.hp.com/query.html?col=hpcom+ccen&la=en&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hp.com%2F&qp=%2BTicker%3AHP&qt=HP+5200C+&submit.x=5&submit.y=7

--Everett

[This message was edited by Everett Cox on 16 May 2002 at 09:31 PM.]

Mark Ardito · From: Chicago, IL, USA

Ray,

Hey man...120 Gig!!! That is HUGE!!!

Maybe look into Partition Magic as a utility for setting up that monster. It is real easy to use and has a nice graphical interface. FDISK is a little clumbsy for people who haven't used it before.

As far as the scanner. Did you have it working before with your old PC? What OS was your old PC and what OS is your new PC?

USB should be no problem. Maybe I am guessing that your new OS is WinXP and HP would like you to download the new software. You should be able to use your old software, but update just the driver.

8 Hours...are you on a dialup? Try and find a buddy in your area with a broadband connection and a CD burner.

Let me know about the OS stuff so I can try and troubleshoot some more.

Mark

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

120 Gigs? Man, if you ever have to defrag that monster, you might as well take a nice long vacation!

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

My bandleader got a new computer last year with Windows ME.
Her HP5200C scanner also refuses to work with it although
it works perfectly with Windows 95/98. I went to
the HP website and downloaded "what they call"
the ME updated driver, still didn't work. Called
HP and they said the HP disk we were attempting
to update was an old version and incompatible with the
update, said to download the new complete software
then update it. I did, same result. All I can say
now is Good Luck. I ended up loaning her my
spare scanner, a newer cheapie, it works fine.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 18 May 2002 at 01:34 PM.]

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Man!! Here we go again. PC's and scanners
just don't want to cooperate. Only under strict rules. I've got 2 PC's now. One is Win98, the other is WinME.
An HP 4100c flat-bed scanner works well on the 98, but will not run on the ME; even with
all of HP's update drivers and much patient assistance from good pal, Everett C. So to get around this mess, I decided to hook back up the Win98 pc and install the scanner and then network the 2 together. Well that plan
worked, but didn't work. I'm sort of networked, but file sharing is not, at this time, happening. The printer and scanner do cross over.

And heaven's sake.....can you guys explain
[in 25 words or less, of course] what partitioning is? I'm getting ready to reformatt [wipe out everything] and re-install the PC with ME on it. I heard you should pay attention to PARTITIONING when wiping-out and reinstalling the OS.

Thanks all, and good luck Ray with your
problems. This stuff can really drive you nuts.

[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 18 May 2002 at 03:37 PM.]

Everett Cox · From: Marengo, OH, USA (deceased)

Chip-- OK, I'll try but you KNOW *I* can't do anything in less than 25 words.

'PARTioning' is just dividing the disk into PARTs with each part being treated by the system as if it were a separate drive. (23 words!!!)

With today's huge disks, it is, again, making a lot of sense to use partitioning. A few years ago, we split the hard disk up in order to achieve better efficiency in storing our files. the DiskOperatingSystem (DOS) did/does store data on the disk in blocks of 512 characters (bytes). It was always too inefficient to read/write one byte at a time and 512 seemed a good compromise. But it meant that even if you wrote a file containing 1 character, it 'used up' 512 bytes of disk space

They kept track of each of these disk 'sectors' in a table so that the multiple sectors used by files larger than that could be linked together. The size of that table was/is limited so, as our disks got bigger, those 512 byte sectors had to be grouped into 'clusters'. Now, that 1 byte file would 'use up' and waste even more disk space. As disks got still larger, the size of the clusters also had to be made larger so that each one could have a place in the size-limited table used to keep track of them.

So a method was found to divide up the hard disk into smaller 'logical' drives, each with its own FileAllocationTable (FAT). That kept the number of clusters on each 'drive' relatively small and efficient. Even so, it was not unusual for a 4GB drive with a few thousand files to have 3-400MB of wasted space.

But we wanted bigger and bigger disks to hold more and larger files. So they finally changed the size and structure of the table which keeps track of our data. It is now larger than befor and a portion (the Directory) can have entries combined so as to allow for longer names to be used for folders and files. The disk cluster size on a modern system is 4K which means the smallest file you've got will take up at least 4096 bytes of space. But, with our larger files, that's deemed a good compromise, again.

Along with changes to the BIOS (BasicInputOutputSystem) and various techniques to allow the sytem to handle the larger disk structures, we can now use huge disks as a single entity. Many people no longer partition the disk into 'logical' drives. They just put everything on 'C:' and don't worry about it.

That works, but poses new problems. Try doing a 'full' Scandisk or Defrag on a well populated 80GB hard disk. Or a Virus scan. Or a backup of important data. Takes a LONG, LONG time! But if your files were kept on different 'drives', many of those tasks could be limited to only a part of your overall data. Most Virus' only infect files on drive C: and most files you wish to backup are those you create, yourself.

If you organize your system and applications rather than accept the 'generic' or common installation choices, your system maintainance could be much easier and less time consuming. PARTITION your disk into smaller 'drives'. Keep Windows and system related stuff on drive C: BUT don't install all your app's to 'Program Files'.

When possible (MOST of the time) I install each application into its own folder, usually NOT on drive C. When it's not too difficult (FREQUENTLY), I configure the app to read and write MY files to a folder on another 'drive' (like those I create using word processors, spread sheets, data bases, etc.).

The end result is that my basic operating system and enhancements are on a relatively small drive which can easily be copied or saved. The applications I need most are also on a small drive that is easily backed up. And when I DO backup, it is simple to NOT include the unchanging majority of program files. Back them up ONCE if you wish but backup your DATA files OFTEN. My data files are mostly on a separate drive, in their own folders, so I just 'ZIP' them in one quick process to another folder whose name is the date of the backup.

I download and install a lot of things for myself to try or for the benefit of friends. Untill I'm sure it's good - and does what I want - an app does not get on a drive along with my 'keepers'. That makes it easier to get rid of it and any entries it may have put into my Windows Registry. For me, that's critical. (I can quickly search the Registry for anything referencing 'drive X'.)

It should be noted that I frequently use a small 'Change of Address' program to allow me to painlessly move a file or folder from one place to another. When a questionable app becomes a keeper, I just copy its folder from 'drive X' to where I want it live. Then I tell the COA program the old and new locations and IT goes about modifying Registry entries, shortcuts, etc. for me.

Bottom line (at last!!!) -- I partition these days not so much for DOS efficiency but, instead, to let me manage my data and system better. You don't often have to run Scandisk or Defrag or do a virus scan on that great big hard drive. Just smaller parts of it.

OK, Chip -- this was all your fault! -Everett

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

WOW Ev,
That was quite an explanation, and I thank you for it. I'm gonna have to re-read it a few times to really grasp it; if I get stuck on something I'll email you, so as not to tie up COMPUTERS.

I am gonna give it a shot. After all the mistakes I've made with PCs since Aug.98',
what are a few more gaffs? How ya gonna learn anything, if you don't stick out your neck now and then.

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

Chip, some of what I know I learned from books or school, most of what I know I learned by jumping in and doing it, sometimes wrong - several times - until I got it right!

Go for it, you'll learn.

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Thanks Jim for those words of encouragement.
I can hear you saying it, and I agree, 'there
is NO substitute for experience'.

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