| Author |
Topic: Another cable topic |
Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
|
Posted 30 Nov 2006 9:32 am |
|
| This actually concerns XLR cables. Who makes a high quality/very low noise XLR mic cable? I tried running my Nashville 112 through the PA system awhile back there was so much noise it was unusable. We tried two different branded XLR cables with the same result. I thought it might be a problem with the guitar amp. It wasn't. Last night I did some experimenting and found two problems. I found that the pushbutton input pad on the PA mixer needs to be activated...the Nash 112 output seems very hot. After doing that a high impedance mic cable from the guitar amp worked pretty well. The 'Low Z' cable was still too noisy but 'Low Z' is what Peavey recommends. I want to order to a good 20 ft 'Low Z' cable but I don't know what to order. Any recommendations? |
|
|
|
George Redmon
From:
Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.
|
Posted 30 Nov 2006 10:34 am
|
|
| have Markertek make you a good canare or mogami cable..best there is, i use several of each in my studio..... |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 30 Nov 2006 10:36 am
|
|
| The cables you have must really be bad. I've used cheap Musician Friend cables into Peavey mixers without problems with Nashville 112's. And I mean cheap - I bought 10 cables - 20ft each on a special for $24.95. |
|
|
|
Blake Hawkins
From:
Florida
|
Posted 30 Nov 2006 10:56 am
|
|
Canare "Star Quad" or the Mogami equavalent
are very good.
I used balanced lines in broadcasting for
45 years with no problems from properly wired quality cables.
Some cables come with pin one connected to the shell. That is bad and can cause
noise even in balanced lines. The shell of the connector should be floating. It will be grounded to the chassis of amp when you plug it in.
|
|
|
|
Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
|
Posted 30 Nov 2006 1:15 pm
|
|
Thanks for the info. I'm looking at the Canare cables at Markertek and once I find out what shipping would be I'll probably order there.
Jack, I don't know what the cables are that I tried since they aren't marked. Our bass player bought them from a local sound and light outfit and they look fairly robust but I guess that doesn't necessarily indicate how well shielded they are. |
|
|
|
Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
|
Posted 30 Nov 2006 1:48 pm
|
|
The Pro Quad cables from audiopile.net are excellent. Pro Quad
------------------
Lynn Oliver
   |
|
|
|
Gareth Carthew
From:
West Sussex, UK
|
Posted 30 Nov 2006 4:46 pm
|
|
Obviously with out seeing the cables, or indeed without hearing the problem in person it's impossible to say for sure but I'd be looking elsewhere for the problem.
If the cables are really bad they could be responsible but from what you've told us my gut says something else is at work here.[This message was edited by Gareth Carthew on 30 November 2006 at 04:51 PM.] |
|
|
|
Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
|
Posted 30 Nov 2006 5:14 pm
|
|
| Gareth; I'm pretty sure it's a cable problem. If I take one of these no-name XLR cables of my buddy's and plug it into the mixer and then connect my guitar amp, there's a very loud hum in the sound system without my guitar amp even being turned on. (with or without the input pad on that mixer channel) But if I use my own High Z mic cable to make the connection there's no hum at all and it seems to work fine. I guess I could just keep using the high impedence cable but that's not what's specified in the owner's manual and I assume there's a reason for that. ( I'm no technician...are you restricting your signal by using a High Z cable where Low Z is indicated?) In any event, I ordered a Canare cable because I need my High Z cable elsewhere in my rig. |
|
|
|
Gareth Carthew
From:
West Sussex, UK
|
Posted 30 Nov 2006 6:28 pm
|
|
Oh OK. Yeah, could be a cable problem then.
It's rare to find cables quite that bad. Just unlucky I guess.  [This message was edited by Gareth Carthew on 30 November 2006 at 06:28 PM.] |
|
|
|
Blake Hawkins
From:
Florida
|
Posted 30 Nov 2006 9:52 pm
|
|
Bill,
That sounds like a ground loop hum, which is what happens if pin 1 and the shell are connected together.
With an ohmmeter do a continuity check between pin 1 and the shell of the connector.
Be sure both ends are disconnected from the amp.
There could be other causes, but that is what I'd check first.
Older equipment used transformer inputs for balanced lines which were trouble free.
Modern equipment uses op-amps which can have problems depending on how they are wired.
Blake |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 1 Dec 2006 3:02 am
|
|
The Musician's Friend cables I got all had the extra ground connected. At Blake's suggestion I removed them all (just clipped a wire at one end). That eliminated a potential problem and may be why the cheapie cables work so good.
I'd check the "bad" cables as Blake suggests to see if they too have the ground which could be the potential problem. |
|
|
|
Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
|
Posted 1 Dec 2006 5:41 am
|
|
Blake..Jack; do you think the new Canare cable I have coming will have the same ground issue? I won't mess with these 'problem' cables for two reasons: I don't even know which is pin one or anything else about connector anatomy. Also, they don't belong to me.
Oddly enough these same cables have been working fine with the stage mics we're using. I guess that suggests that some ground issue exists between the Nassville 112 and the mixer, as you say. ( the mixer is no "Rolls Royce" ...a make called 'Phonic'..made in Taiwan I believe) |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 1 Dec 2006 6:13 am
|
|
I also have a cheap Phonic mixer and it doesn't have the interface problem that you have.
I primarily use it in my home studio if I run out of channels for something and need to combine, such as drum mic's, into one channel on my 8 track recorder. It very quiet. |
|
|
|
Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
|
Posted 1 Dec 2006 6:25 am
|
|
Jack; we've really had no problems with this one either. We only have about 9 or 10 gigs a year but the mixer has held up well so far. Since you're basically using the same setup (Nash 112 into a Phonic head) then the culprit has got to be these cables.
The Canare I sent for is going to set me back about $50Cdn by the time it gets landed here so I sure hope it works. |
|
|
|
Blake Hawkins
From:
Florida
|
Posted 1 Dec 2006 9:07 am
|
|
Bill,
Jack's recording setup works really well and he has produced some very high quality CDs.
The ground connection is not an issue when you are using a microphone on one end of the cable.
You are correct in that there is probably
a few milivolts different between the ground
on the mixer and the ground on the NV112.
The reason for not connecting the shell to the cable shield is that some equipment
handles the "signal ground" and the "safety ground" separately. If you connect them together at the input you will get a hum.
There are a number of ways to handle ground
loops and all have been covered extensively
in previous threads on the forum.
Good luck with your Canare cable.
During my working life, I was responsible for a TV news department which had a large number of audio cables. Each news crew had 8 to 10 of them. They were used every day and treated roughly.
I made all the cables, date coded them,
and checked them on a regular basis.
Using the best Belden Mike cable I got about a year on each cable before it had to be repaired.
When Canare cables came out, my cable life instantly went to 3 or more years.
Have also used snakes made with Canare and was able to have both line and microphone
level signals without any crosstalk between them.
Blake |
|
|
|
