Deluxe Reverb for PSG

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 21 Nov 2006 8:07 am

On my Fender tubers I usually set the controls and start a gig with the bright switch off. Sometimes later, when the room fills up with people and/or the band gets louder and muddier, I try the bright switch to see if it helps my tone. It usually helps a little. But it is surprising how little effect it has. It seems about like turning the treble and mid up half a notch, and the bass down half a notch. Usually, when you need some serious adjustment, you need more change than that. By fairly small adjustments you can easily make an amp sound the same with the bright on as without it. So I wouldn't think having the bright on all the time would be a problem.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 21 Nov 2006 10:21 am

According to Lloyd Green, talking about the sessions for Sweetheart of the Rodeo:

My amp at that time was a Fender Black Face Deluxe with 1 D-120F JBL speaker. I switched to a Fender Twin with 1 15" D-130F after June, 1968 when we cut the "Live at Panther Hall

Here's an example of Lloyd through a Deluxe:
Lloyd from 1967

It's not Curley Chalker fat, but it's pretty sweet sounding to me.
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[This message was edited by Dan Tyack on 21 November 2006 at 10:45 AM.]

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 21 Nov 2006 10:26 am

And of course the pedal steel hit solo that is so revered by the members of this board, "Teach Your Children", was also recorded on a Deluxe Reverb. (excuse me while I don my asbestos raincoat)

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thurlon hopper · Post by **thurlon hopper** » 21 Nov 2006 4:19 pm

I was workimg in Teruya music store in Okinawa when Garcia recorded Teach your children and hated the sound of his playing then and still hate it. At that time Suite steel was availabe and to my ears that was the album with the genuine steel sound on it. I will never be a fan of Garcia's playing, but that like every thing else is different strokes for different folks.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 21 Nov 2006 5:08 pm

I liked Garcia's sound, not so much for the tone of the instrument./amp combination but the fact that his "sound", due to his playing, sounded like his guitar playing and banjo playing. It overcame any tonal deficiencies, although I don't really think he had any IMO. It wasn't "pure" steel playing, but I didn't know the difference. I still don't, really,. and don't care - most "pure" steel playing sounds ear-piercing to me.

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 22 Nov 2006 6:22 am

I saw Vince Gill last night, and Russ Pahl was playing his new ShowPro through a Deluxe and it sounded pretty killer out front...

thurlon hopper · Post by **thurlon hopper** » 23 Nov 2006 3:21 am

John i would almost bet you that you were not hearing a "STOCK" Deluxe Reverb on the Vince Gill show. I have a friend that builds amps abd he took a Deluxe and hot rodded it to produce probably in the neighborhood of 50 watts, changed lots of stuff in it, it still sounded good but not like your standard Deluxe. The pros usually have some one that knows how to bring their amp of choice up to snuff. After Henry did the upgrade on that amp, they opened for a Nashville act and the right away one of the players said that isn't a stock Deluxe is it?
Henry has a Vibrosonic that he altered to pump out 270 watts. Lots of things can be done to enhance performance. TJH

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 23 Nov 2006 8:30 am

A 270 watt Vibrosonic?

Uh - no.

Not unless he added a 40-pound output transformer and 10-12 normal power tubes (or converted it to a super-SVT with somethin g like 8 6550's!). Either that or turned it into a solid state amp.

Theri might be one that DRAWS 270 watts - I think the 135 watt version of the Twin does and it says that on the back of the amp.

But 270 watts of RMS output isn't going to be coming from a modified Fender amp without EXTREME changes and a lot of tubes It would make absolutely no sense.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 23 Nov 2006 9:43 am

I know that back in the 70s-early 80s Red Rhodes used to 'hotrod' Princetons and Deluxe Reverbs by basically rebuilding them to be twins.

I don't know any 'pro' these days who would dramatically modify a blackface Deluxe (or a silver face for that matter). For one thing, it would kill the value of the amp (something we weren't concerned with back in the 70s when black face DRs were about $200).

I saw Bob Hoffnar with Hem a couple of months ago in a club gig. He was playing his Franklin through a reissue DR and sounded killer. This was a club with a good sound system and a steel friendly sound guy, I should mention.

Here's another 1967 clip of Lloyd Green for those still doubting that the DR can be a killer steel amp. IMHO tone doesn't get much better than this:

Another killer Lloyd Green intro from 1967
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[This message was edited by Dan Tyack on 23 November 2006 at 09:43 AM.][This message was edited by Dan Tyack on 23 November 2006 at 09:44 AM.][This message was edited by Dan Tyack on 23 November 2006 at 09:54 AM.][This message was edited by Dan Tyack on 23 November 2006 at 09:54 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Nov 2006 9:59 am

It's not Curley Chalker fat, but it's pretty sweet sounding to me.

Yes, very "sweet" sounding, but not what you'd ever term a "ballsy" sound. In a studio (or your living room, or church), you can get fine tones with just a little power. But in the outside world, you gotta have (as Domenico Mudugno might say) "lotsa wattsa".

Of course, many guys fight loud lead players, mega-bass amps, and rock drummers with thin tones designed to pierce through all that garbage. I think it's those guys that earned us that "whiney" moniker many people refer to!

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 23 Nov 2006 11:17 am

Thurlon,

Actually, I believe it was. I have known Russ for a while and we spent a good time talking that evening about gear. With monitor systems these days, you don't have to have a hotrodded amp to hear yourself.

He also has an interesting pickup in his ShowPro that Jason Loller wound for him which is basically a 10 pole P90 single coil.

By the way, killer show--16 piece band with some of my favorite players...

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 23 Nov 2006 2:04 pm

Hey Donny, I think we actually agree here. I'm totally with you that you need some wattage to get big sounds for live playing (unmiked). But in the studio (or live with help from the PA or power amp), you can get some very big sounds with small amplifiers.

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Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 23 Nov 2006 3:10 pm

I got a '79 SF Deluxe in a buy/sell/trade deal that had already had a BF mod to the Reverb channel, runs 6l6's, and has a oversized output tranformer. I removed the green frame Kendrick speaker (which was way too treble-ee for steel) and put an EVM-12L in there (it weighs 55lbs now).
I had it measured on a bench at our local tube amp place called AmpHead, and it is putting out about 62 Watts.
Sounds great for steel (by itself), and keeps up with a Nashville 112 in stereo with an RV-3 (which is plenty of stage volume for the gigs I play).
Running it in stereo with a Session 400 (which I prefer over the Nash 112) sounds and feels great while sitting in the "stereo zone" at the steel.
Funn Stuff!
Pete B.

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 23 Nov 2006 5:54 pm

Well Pete, you foun a great amp, but it really isn't a Deluxe anymore, but still a great amp. JP

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 23 Nov 2006 5:56 pm

I'm going out on the road this weekend playing pedal steel (E9) with an original '64 Deluxe, non-reverb. My Session's speaker has bit the bullet, and at the last minute I can't reach my steel buddy to get one of his Nashvilles. I'm running a Boss GE-7 Graphic EQ to dial in a bit of lows...........is this dangerous to the amp?

It may not have much headroom, but boy what a tone. I have it plugged in here now, tweaking it a bit.

Sho~Bud and Fender - can't wait to do "You Ain't Goin' Nowhere" tomorrow night!

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 24 Nov 2006 9:17 am

The previous owner also put a blackface faceplate and grillcloth on it, so it looks really cool, too. Also came with Fender tilt back legs installed. It's a keeper!
The point for me is, a real Deluxe would never work for gigging. I played mine in stereo with a real '68 Deluxe Reverb at a Fair gig, and the '68 Deluxe voulme had to be on 9 to even keep up.
[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 24 November 2006 at 10:00 AM.]

thurlon hopper · Post by **thurlon hopper** » 25 Nov 2006 3:14 pm

Henry Cassel builds some sweet sounding amps of his own and he took that Vibrosonic put a huge Sunn rransformer in it added 6550 tubes and a convection fan to keep it from melting and he told me that it was putting out 270 watts. plugged a guitar into it but could not use it for guitar at all. So much lows a guitar just couln't overcome that much power. There is not another amp like that one anywhere and if you want to ask Henry about it, phone 717-545-8592 Harrisburg, Pa.