Do the Knobs Make a Difference?

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 4 Aug 2006 6:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Audiophiles need to get a life and just enjoy the music.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed, Greg. Indeed!

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 4 Aug 2006 7:05 am

micro vibrations created by the volume pots and knobs find their way into the delicate signal path and cause degradation (Bad vibrations equal bad sound).

Ridiculous thoughts generated by absurd salespitches find their way into my brain's signal paths and cause degradation...
And I can still make quite satisfactory bad sound using good vibrations... I don't need to start out with bad ones, I can make them bad on my own.
Talk about an unnecessary product![This message was edited by Ray Minich on 04 August 2006 at 08:08 AM.]

Chris House · Post by **Chris House** » 4 Aug 2006 9:08 am

I probably need to pick up a couple of those knobs to go along with the Gugliophonic Moonrock Needle I put on my record player.....[This message was edited by Chris House on 04 August 2006 at 10:25 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 5 Aug 2006 7:45 am

The more I think about it, the more I believe it's really a money laundering scheme. We've been led to believe that those foolish audiophiles will buy anything at any price. What a perfect scam for washing dirty money.

T. C. Furlong · Post by **T. C. Furlong** » 6 Aug 2006 8:12 am

I have a friend who has spent most of his life sorting out what's better in high end audio. He came over to my home studio and within a few hours attempted to improve the audio quality dramatically with crazy ideas. At the end of the day I was convinced that he had hypnotized me into believing that things sounded better and it was really the same or maybe different but not better. So I went and implemented a few of the crazy ideas into friends studios with no explanations or claims of improvement. In every case, my friends noticed a dramatic improvement and refused to let me take my materials back. I really think that his nutty ideas are the real deal.

While I think knobs are a stretch, there are some very nutty things that do actually work.

I went into an audiophile store in Indiana years ago and I was admiring a $1000 turntable and a $7000 turntable. When I asked what the main difference between the two was, the salesman told me that the $7000 turntable would "impress my girlfriend" faster. (edited to comply with forum decency policy)
TC

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 6 Aug 2006 8:46 am

Several years back Monster Cable was marketing specific cables for bass, rock guitar, jazz guitar, etc.

These cables also had an arrow on the side pointing the way the signal flowed and you were supposed to plug that end in the guitar.

OK, I bought the Jazz cable and plugged it into my Byrdland. It sounds no better than any other good quality cable and I can't tell the difference no matter what end I plug in the guitar.

Maybe I will try some maple or walnut laquered nobes on one of my amps.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 6 Aug 2006 6:08 pm

Any time I own an Amplifier such as my Fender, with the removeable lens for the power~lamp, I always replace the Red~Lens with a Blueish color lens, but; only because it l©©ks nicer and is a little easier on my eyes! (And it l©©ks kinda Special!) I haven't really decided what it is that gives me such a good sound, but; I'm still l©©king! ho~ho! Maybe it is the Blue~Lens!

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“Big John”
a.k.a. {Keoni Nui}
Current Equipment

Bill Crook · Post by **Bill Crook** » 6 Aug 2006 8:12 pm

I replaced the red LED power lamp on my "Nashville 112" with a blue one...............

1) because it looks better.
2) because that lets me know that I have done a mod on the amp.

Be aware that doing a mod on a new Amp will void the warrenty !!!

(Ken Fox............. E-mail me if you want details of mod.)

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http://home.comcast.net/~crookwf/
http://photobucket.com/albums/v479/billcrook/

[This message was edited by Bill Crook on 06 August 2006 at 09:12 PM.]

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 7 Aug 2006 5:55 am

The key to all this improvement must be the C-37 Lacquer. It seems that all their products are coated with C-37 lacquer. Maybe we should finish a steel guitar with C-37 lacquer. That would make a $5000 guitar worth about $50,000?

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

Gareth Carthew · Post by **Gareth Carthew** » 7 Aug 2006 6:20 am

I once saw a guy on ebay selling an IEC power cord made from silver conductor cable 2 feet long for something like $180.
He was aiming at Hi-Fi Audio enthusiasts and making all kinds of ridiculous claims such as "the silver conductors improve bandwidth to give you a fuller, more spacious sound" or something similar. Just a power cord!
But not just a power cord! A Magic power cord that can improve the performance of any stereo amplifier and give it sparkling, superior performance!
I mean... WOW!!!

But here, I'm impressed! Small wooden knobs that give a dramatic improvment in sound quality!
The things they can do these days!!!

That kind of thing really winds me up.

Gareth

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 7 Aug 2006 8:29 am

Yea, I've been watching the trends for a long time in the audiophile world. It's not a simple, black and white kind of thing. There is some truth to some of the tweaking, but there is far more scamming. But hey, it's capitalism. There are a LOT of people who simply feel better about their stereo if they paid more money for it. Seriously, some guys with lots of extra money really love to spend huge dollars on their rig because it makes them feel good. More expensive must be better, right?

The knob thing is hilarious to me and best demonstrates that particular market of insane, "audiophile" spending freaks. What I've learned over the years is that listening to sound is a very un-scientific thing. The mind has great control over the ears. I've even tried this with friends. You can sit and listen to a set of speaker wires and say, "hey, you notice how the hi-hats have kind of a hard, crisp quality to them?". And the person says "oh yea, I hear that." Then I'd pretend to switch to the other kind of speaker wires and say "ooh, you hear how the hi-hats now have a smooth, clear, and 3-d quality to them". And that same listener will say, "oh yea, I like these speaker wires better", and it's still the same wire as before. The mind and its control over listening is a very pliable and gooey thing. Just like listening to music, you can be enjoying a mix of a song and then someone can say hey, do you think the snare is too loud, and then your attention is all on the snare, and you just can't escape how loud the snare sounds now. So my point is that even a great listener can be tricked into noticing and liking/disliking something. It's also an age-old soundman trick. When a performer wants more monitor, the soundman will just pretend to be turning up the monitor while the performer is listening and then they say "perfect!". Nothing really changed but the performer's mind focusing on the sound.

The truth is that there are some very REAL differences in sound that result from changes in speaker wires, audio interconnects, power cables (yes), vibration dampeners, and more. But, when you start getting into this realm of magic wooden knobs, $500/foot wires, speaker wire elevators, and the other zillions of exotically expensive "tweaks" you are entering the realm of such tiny and subtle sonic changes that the mind and it's wishful thinking takes over and convinces itself that it's somehow "better".

One big silly thing I've seen, and this is just my personal theory, has to do with directional cables. There is a very real method of putting a shield around a 2-conductor interconnect where the shield is only connected at one end. That way the shield is simply a shield and not a carrier of the signal. When making a cable like this, it does matter to which end the shield is connected. I believe this was the origin of the "directional" cable thing. But now you see all these people making simple, two-conductor interconnects and printing directional arrows on them. I think it's bogus.

Also, I learned that many if not most of the exotic wire manufacturers are actually getting their wire from one company in New England. They simply package, wrap, and terminate them in a way that looks cool, and then they sell a 3' interconnect wire for $350 or even more sometimes. Not a bad profit margin. Monster Cable seems to have found a nice market. They make adequate but not great wire and they sell it for mildly expensive prices. They win the prize for "smarketing". Personally, after trying all kinds of interconnects for studio and audiophile audio gear, I've ended up for the most part, using the George L's cable and soldering good quality RCA or 1/4" ends on them. Very inexpensive and performs as well as or better than just about anything 20 times the price.

Brad

Steve Alcott · Post by **Steve Alcott** » 7 Aug 2006 9:05 am

A well known session bass player has for years had a "producer knob" on all his basses; it's not connected to anything at all. When someone "in charge" starts nitpicking about the bass tone, he invites them to adjust this knob to their sonic satisfaction.

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 7 Aug 2006 8:46 pm

Anybody want to buy a new, improved, advanced thumb pick. These will make you sound just like Buddy, or Lloyd, or whoever you prefer to sound like. They are only $399.99 apiece. They are lined with artificial platinum genuine imitation mole skin to prevent slippage on your thumb. Shipping will be free for the duration of this mailing. WHAT A DEAL !!!!

Gareth Carthew · Post by **Gareth Carthew** » 9 Aug 2006 7:09 am

The truth is that there are some very REAL differences in sound that result from changes in speaker wires, audio interconnects, power cables (yes), vibration dampeners, and more.

Too true.

Unfortunatly what I've seen alot of is people taking this understanding and turning it to their own products advantage.
Like my ebay power cord example. Certainly the power cord will affect the audio but most definatly NOT in the way in which this seller was claiming. And definatly not in way which would warrant the high prices.

A little knowledge can be dangerous. In this case, an audiophile who has a basic understanding that tells him that a poor power cord can sound bad will be far more easily fooled into such a deal.

It's the same with so many other example. If something in the description sounds vaguly familier to the person they will often take whatever they're being told as gospel.

Like a friend who bought the fastest PC he could afford to use with his same-old modem so that his web surfing would be quicker.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 9 Aug 2006 9:48 am

I get a kick out of these new cables that connect your iPod to a stereo. They are about $100. That's so you can have a real nice wire to transfer your lo-fi, jittery, noisy mp3 files to a stereo with audiophile quality cabling. Funny stuff.

Brad

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 9 Aug 2006 5:32 pm

BOB this story reminds me of Snow Snakes in Colorado. When we go Elk hunting in the high mountains of Colorado we have to be very, very careful of dangerous Snow Snakes that could bite us. These snakes are colored white so you can hardly see them in the snow, especially deep snow. We always watch for their eyes, they have little pink eyes.

Rick Hinton · Post by **Rick Hinton** » 16 Aug 2006 5:47 pm

From running sound for years, I have come up with two additional labels for faders on my mixer.
One, The SUCK Fader. This fader reduces the amount of SUCK that the band produces at any gig or performance. This fader should be run at Unity and pulled down when the band starts to SUCK.

Two, the DFA (Dynamic Frequency Adjustment)is used for the one person at EVERY gig that complains that the music is too loud, or insists that an adjustment MUST be made. The knobs on this channel can be set in any position of your choosing during the gig, and when they ask you to make an adjustment, you can make it.
i.e. The question “Doesn’t that snare sound a little loud to you?” means that you can pull back the fader while they are watching, or "The steel guitar sounds muddy!" means that you now have a means to pull that midrange to a controllable level.

While nothing is connected to this channel, and it changes nothing, this simple action seems to satisfy their “ears”. I use it at every gig.
Patent pending, batteries not included, your reading of this message consents to my contribution to poluting your brain.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 16 Aug 2006 8:01 pm

There was a time that I had a $160 bottle of scotch, but to tell the truth, it didn't taste any better to me than the $100 bottle scotch.

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 16 Aug 2006 8:02 pm

This is up there right along with the DVD Rewinder and the CD Degausser. Just amazing what people can be led to believe.

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Bill, steelin' since '99 | Steel page | MSA U12 | My music | Steelers' birthdays | Over 50?[This message was edited by Bill Llewellyn on 16 August 2006 at 09:05 PM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 17 Aug 2006 2:02 am

Chas, now thats funny

t

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 17 Aug 2006 4:12 pm

Yes, Chas, that is funny!

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 17 Aug 2006 5:26 pm

These audiophiles just crack me up! What goofs!! Everyone who plays a steel guitar knows the BLACK knobs sound the best of all!!!

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 17 Aug 2006 6:09 pm

I guess you aren't aware of the fact that Snow Snakes really don't bite! But, you have to look behind every fallen tree~branch that you might sit on, because; if you're not alert, they’ll slither up your tush and freeze you to death! . . . . I don't believe I actually told that little secret!
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(EDITED

for the proper discriptive content!
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“Big John”
a.k.a. {Keoni Nui}
Current Equipment
[This message was edited by John Bechtel on 17 August 2006 at 07:11 PM.][This message was edited by John Bechtel on 17 August 2006 at 07:17 PM.] [This message was edited by John Bechtel on 18 August 2006 at 01:45 AM.] [This message was edited by John Bechtel on 18 August 2006 at 02:20 AM.]

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 21 Aug 2006 12:52 pm

Darvin wrote:"The key to all this improvement must be the C-37 Lacquer."

I'd hold out for the C-38 lacquer. It's 1 better.

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 23 Aug 2006 10:08 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>. . . sound differences in Blackface and Silverface Fenders, and then consider that only the color of the panel does that,

. . . tweed was a natural fiber, and the organic component of that covering naturally migrated to the instrument inside,

. . . the numbers on knobs, shape of the fret markers, etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, Donny, I was wondering when someone would straighten us out!