Come On....Peavey?

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 20 Apr 2006 8:27 am

ajm - EVH has gone with whoever has sponsored him, exclusively.

Charvel...then Ernie Ball...now Peavey. He changes endorsements like changing socks. Funny how similar the Ernie Ball and Peavey guitars are. That would be "$$" talking, not "quality"...

I agree Mike Brown is a great guy and tremendous resource. In the six-string world, you have the same thing though - on the Fender Forum (NOT even sponsored by Fender) their marketing, production, sales and custom shop guys all hang out and answer questions.

On other boards you find the Marshall/Vox people, the US Music contingent (Randall, Eden, Washburn), St. Louis Music (Crate, Ampeg)and others.

So yes, Mike's a great resource - but he's not unique. He seems that way to people who are insulated and don't venture much beyond the SGF though.

ajm · Post by **ajm** » 20 Apr 2006 12:05 pm

"EVH has gone with whoever has sponsored him, exclusively.

Charvel...then Ernie Ball...now Peavey. He changes endorsements like changing socks. Funny how similar the Ernie Ball and Peavey guitars are. That would be "$$" talking, not "quality"..."

OK, I admit it up front, I'm a VH fan. I also don't like some of the things I've been hearing and reading about him lately (his health, the band, etc.). But, I don't know him personally and have never met him. The term "sell out" to me is a judgement of a man's character. I'll assume for you to use that term, you must know something about him that we don't.

Actually, he didn't get anything from Charvel that he didn't buy before EB. I think the company you mean, or forgot about, is Kramer.

Which really doen't mean anything to me. I still don't see how any of this is "selling out". A manufacturer comes to you and wants you to use their stuff, and maybe will design something for you. They might pay you to use it. So? I don't see this as "selling out". I'd like to believe that if the stuff wasn't good enough, he wouldn't have used it. And when you get to the level he's at in the industry, money is always going to come into play. (FWIW, I've heard that Eric Johnson doesn't use one of his signature Strats exclusively on tour. Does that make him a sell out?)

I'll agree that the EB and Wolfgang are similar guitars in terms of shape and features. They're probably similar in terms of quality, too. In other words, pretty good. So who doesn't want to play a quality instrument, especially one designed for you personally? I guess the ONLY reason he went with Peavey was for the $$$$, since quality was not a factor. I don't know or remember the reason he split with EB, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was an amicable split. But once again, since I am not in his inner circle, I personally do not know why.

I believe that he used Peavey stuff for close to 10 years. Before that, EB guitars for about 5. Before that, Kramer for maybe 5 years. The only amp he has ever endorsed to my knowledge is Peavey. Changing socks?

Finally, there must be a lot of "sell outs" in the music business, because I see a lot of people from all genres of music playing all sorts of instruments endorsing gear.

Sorry to take this sort of off topic, but I have a hard time buying this "sell out" stuff regardless of who or what it is about. These people are in the business to make money and play music, and it's not always easy to keep them apart. Except for me, of course. I don't make any money playing music, and no manufacturers are knocking down my door with all sorts of offers, so it's easy for me to make an independent decision on what gear I want to play.

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Artie McEwan
[This message was edited by ajm on 20 April 2006 at 05:47 PM.]

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 20 Apr 2006 2:47 pm

If you saw . . Mr Emmons sitting behind his new Zum, look closely, there is a Peavey VMP2 preamp sitting behind him. Could that be a clue?

No. Mr. Emmons could play through a Milagro ("Si Bueno, es milagro!") Midnight Special, and you'd swear it was whatever rig you wanted it to be![This message was edited by James Cann on 20 April 2006 at 03:48 PM.]

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 21 Apr 2006 4:15 pm

well .. I like Peavey amps... good gear... reliable,good bang for the buck... HOWEVER... take a look at resale... Why do Peaveys [tube and non tube]lose so much value in comparison to Fender?... maybe its just false perception, but Fenders "tubey goodness" wins the day for a majority it would seem..
[steel players are an exception, the steel playing majority favor uncolored clean power]...
I have owned Session 400, 500, 112,Vegas,Classic 50, 2 Delta Blues,212 Classic w/ ss pre amp tube power section,.. all good amps, but all were put aside to go back to Fender... I seem to WANT that Fender coloration... I sound good through Peavey amps and will be getting another soon... there's just this Fender mojo thing..... ya know?? bob

Sonny Priddy · Post by **Sonny Priddy** » 21 Apr 2006 6:22 pm

I Don't Care What Anybody May Say For Me It's PEAVEY All The Way. SONNY.

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Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 21 Apr 2006 11:08 pm

I had an old Classic hybrid back in the late 1970s. It had a Marshall-like distortion but it didn't have enough of the hollow midrangey sound that I like so much. I've tried the tweed Classic 30 and Classic 50 tube amps, both of which have good distortion, but those are even further from the sound I like.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 22 Apr 2006 12:39 am

Leslie, I think you are correct.

The Marshall sound is quite different than the overdrive sound of both the Fender Hot Rod Series and the Peavey Classic series, which in my view are pretty similar...

This is where personal taste joins the fray.

Actually , the Peavey Classic approaches that of a Dr Z..more in that flavor...

For me personally I like the Marshall tone, but for my taste it is too limited for my playing styles...For Rt 66 , Walkin the Dog..Statesboro Blues etc...it can't be beat...

But I have to admit..when you're standing in front of a Marshall half stack you look much better..you look like you play better...

I'd get a full stack but then I wouldn't be able to reach the knobs

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 22 April 2006 at 01:40 AM.]

Jack Francis · Post by **Jack Francis** » 22 Apr 2006 4:38 am

I bought the new Peavey "Valve King", 100W head and love the sound...Clean channel is just that, clean and "Fenderish". (If that is a word)

The distortion channel is the best that I have ever used, I can dial in just enough for the "Classic Rock and Blues" that I enjoy playing.

My son is into Van Halen and is looking forward to Peavy's new "Windsor" amp that is supposed to have more of a Marshall sound.

These amps are made in China and so are very affordable.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 22 Apr 2006 7:01 am

Steve - I missed this post:

""I think southern rock is based on the Peavey tone"
Gotta argue with that one, Dave. Skynyrd was the ONLY band using Peaveys way back then. Duane was using a 100-watt Marshall, with JBL D-120's in the cabs, Dickey Betts was running a 50-watt Marshall head---THE rig to have was a Les Paul through a Marshall."

I agree they weren't using Peavey, except for Skynyrd (which is a perfectly good example to me of why NOT to use Peavey - that band had overall the lousiest, weirdest combination of mud and icepick-treble ever. I can't listen to them for 15 seconds just because the sound is so awful).

But here's an odd fact - for a while when the Allmans were using Marshalls...or so everyone thought...they actually had Traynor heads on tables behind the Marshalls. the Marshalls were on standby, and the Traynors were plugged into the guitars and Marshall cabs.

I don't recall how long that lasted, but it WAS in the Duane era.

Mark Cohen · Post by **Mark Cohen** » 22 Apr 2006 7:15 am

Interesting thread. In the process of designing my own new amps, I have made a couple of MP3 files "direct" from the steel. This allows me to compare the sound of the amp blind and in standardized conditions. I would be very interested if a few of you guys would be willing to send me a minute or two of your steel playing recorded that way, as well, so that I can factor out the quality of my playing (I ain't no Emmons) from the sound of the gear itself. If you use a 'Y' cable so that you can hear yourself play it will also capture your volume pedal work.

I'd be happy to share those files with anyone in the business (Mike?). With the permission of you players, I would be happy to post these on the web. They will help us all. A-list players would be especially helpful.

Send to: mscohen@ucla.edu.

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 22 Apr 2006 10:29 am

Actually,Duane used the 50-watt Marshall tops and Dickey used the 100s...you can tell on the Fillmore East album because Duane had the 50s dimed and they were VERY distorted-sounding...Dickey's tone was a lot cleaner,because of the added headroom of the 100s...I went to a birthday party for the mayor of Juliette,Ga.in'74 and Dickey's band was playing...he had 3 100w Marshalls built into a plywood cabinet!You could hear Dickey really well...don't know if Skynyrd used Peaveys on their records...seems like I remember hearing that some Twins,Marshalls and Music Mans were used in the studio...I'm gonna see Rodney Mills(engineered and produced some Skynyrd records)on Monday...maybe he'll remember...

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http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage

[This message was edited by Steve Hinson on 22 April 2006 at 11:33 AM.][This message was edited by Steve Hinson on 22 April 2006 at 12:38 PM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 22 Apr 2006 10:52 am

Doesn't Eddie V have a 5150 or something like that..

he's pretty good aint' he ?

well THAT band that uses PV sure HIT with a few tunes didn't they...

Most of us are still playin' em' today..or at least trying to anyway...

this could turn into a thread like an RR thread if we are not careful !

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 22 April 2006 at 12:50 PM.]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 22 Apr 2006 2:54 pm

I agree they weren't using Peavey, except for Skynyrd (which is a perfectly good example to me of why NOT to use Peavey - that band had overall the lousiest, weirdest combination of mud and icepick-treble ever. I can't listen to them for 15 seconds just because the sound is so awful).

Yeah, nobody alive can stand them, can they Jim? To each their own, I guess.

I think if one did a free association test on music, the response to "southern rock band" would be "Skynyrd" for a very high percentage of people. Just a guess, I've never done the experiment.

Whenever I see shows by anybody, there's usually an assortment of equipment onstage. I didn't say Skynyrd used only Peaveys, although you'd be hard pressed to argue against that looking at the cover of one of the seminal live rock records, "One More From the Road". The few times I saw Skynyrd back then, I saw lots of Peavey amps onstage. Sorry, but I think they sounded great, and the very definition of southern rock, IMO. I also think plenty of other southern rock bands used Peavey equipment back then. On the self-titled Molly Hatchet debut LP, I quote from the liner notes: "MOLLY HATCHET is powered exclusively by Peavey Amps." When I saw them back then, my recollection is that they had plenty of Peavey amps. I generally look for that type of thing. Of course, people use whatever works in the studio. Jimmy Page is most associated with his Les Paul Standards, but he often used his Tele or Danelectro double cut. This doesn't diminish the Paul at all.

I had an old Classic hybrid back in the late 1970s. It had a Marshall-like distortion but it didn't have enough of the hollow midrangey sound that I like so much.

I agree that the "natural" Peavey tone is somewhat different than the "natural" Marshall tone, but I could dial in something pretty close. A bit of external EQ can do wonders to scoop/accentuate the mids, if that's what you want. I found the Peaveys to be more like Boogies than Marshalls, which isn't surprising since they both used 6L6 tubes. Other things being equal, the 6L6 tone is different than the EL34 tone - I found a cranked old Peavey more like a KT66/6L6-powered Marshall JTM-45, not an EL34-powered Plexi or JMP. But if one wants EL34 tone, a decent tech can change 6L6 over pretty easily. I've done that once or twice.

On Van Halen "selling out", I don't know what that's all about. Over the last 25 years, I'll bet EVH could have gotten an endorsement deal from nearly any manufacturer he wanted to. To my understanding, he went to Peavey because they could and would build a good guitar at a reasonable price point and really get some distribution for it. I have owned both Musicman and Peavey versions of the EVH guitars. They were both excellent - and very similar, actually.

What burns me up is musicians arguing "this amp is junk" when they have never really tried to make it work. I've owned Marshalls that sounded like garbage out of the box - go in, fix a few things, take the 6550s out and set up for EL34s, set the bias, change the speakers, and so on - they're golden. Well, the same applies to a lot of distorted rock and roll amps - when amps are pushed to the limit, they often need to be tweaked to get "your tone". All this stuff is so much a matter of personal taste and also a lot of "rock and roll image" BS, IMO. [This message was edited by Dave Mudgett on 22 April 2006 at 04:55 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 22 Apr 2006 3:24 pm

I remember when Line 6 first came out with a modeling amp, I attended a demo seminar at a local music store. When it came time for the Q&A, I asked if they had a model for a Peavey Session 400. The rep replied "No, we only modeled amps that people actually wanted!"

It got a big laugh from the room. I don't use Peavey equipment, but I've heard great, enviable tones from Peavey amps at steel shows, which is why I asked the question. I definitely felt the anti-Peavey bias first-hand that day.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 22 Apr 2006 4:59 pm

"take the 6550s out and set up for EL34s, "

I agree - the American JCM800's were shipped with 6550's for durability, and they sound far better with the EL34 conversion done right.

As far as tone goes, of course it's subjective. And Molly Hatchet is another on my "yikes" list. OTOH, generally the Allmans had tremendous sound.

Must be a regional thing - around L.A. if you ask about "the" "Southern Rock Band" the instant reply is "Allman Brothers". Around here Skynyrd was a minor blip on the screen in the 70's or whenever it was they were really popular - other than people yelling "Freebird" at bluegrass bands there wasn't that much influence locally. Never did see many Confederate Flags around Hollywood clubs.

Had the same discussion on guitar boards, and it's pretty consistent - on the west coast the Alllman Brothers filled arenas and were THE southern rock band. Heck, I think Black Oak Arkansas was more popular here than Skynyrd.

Back to the real subject - EVH has approached many manufacturers in the past. He's gone where he gets the best deal. Fender and Gibson don't underwrite players like some others do, so he never ended up in those camps. But given how similar the Ernie Ball and Peavey EVH guitars are, there's one common bond - money.

Bob's post regarding Line 6 is funny...but true. Fender went through the same thing with the Cyber amps - research showed the desired models were (besides Fender, obviously, including some not really top-line tones) Marshall, Vox, Mesa, Soldano and other variations on those general themes. Nobody asked for a Peavey patch. And I have to ask - other than in the steel world, where I can't claim enough tonal experience to know - is there an example of "Peavey Tone" that sets it apart and makes it unique? Traditional Fender, Marshall and Vox amps all have certain prototypical tones, just like a Tele or Les Paul does. What's the "Peavey Tone"?

FWIW the same question has been asked often about Paul Reed Smith guitars - play great, look superb, well-built...but what's "PRS tone"??

I am NOT dissing Peavey - they have done a great job of making amps that sound decent affordable for the average player. But while the price-point is attractive, I don't find anything particularly unique or groundbreaking tonally.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 22 Apr 2006 9:40 pm

Earlier Lynyrd Skynyrd stuff had no Peavey. Ed King usually used a Fender Stratocaster and a silverface Fender Twin Reverb (think of the intro and solos to 'Sweet Home Alabama'), while Gary Rossington and Allen Collins played Gibson guitars through Marshall stacks.

Molly Hatchet was mostly a Peavey band, but at some point Dave Hlubek started using Mesa Boogie stuff.

I don't know if The Outlaws ever used Peavey, but I think I can remember seeing their guitarists advertising Legend amps in Guitar Player magazine in the late 70s/early 80s.

38 Special was mostly a Peavey band from what I could remember.

Lane Sandstrom · Post by **Lane Sandstrom** » 23 Apr 2006 4:31 pm

I wonder if the players ear, brain, heart and soul might have something to do with what comes out of any amp he uses?

Mickey McGee · Post by **Mickey McGee** » 24 Apr 2006 1:48 am

"Lynyrd Skynyrd stuff"I don't know what amps they used but if you listen to the old recordings they really suck!Every gig I play these days people want to hear "Lynyrd Skynyrd stuff" I don't get it-they weren't that good.

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 24 Apr 2006 3:12 am

Yeah,nobody liked them but the public...

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http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 24 Apr 2006 5:05 am

Steve - I think that "public" was pretty darned regional in scope.

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 24 Apr 2006 5:20 pm

Is that right?Check around...I think you are wrong...43 gold and platinum records..."regional"?Headlining tours around the world..."regional"?Members of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame..."regional"?Whatever you say...

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http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage

[This message was edited by Steve Hinson on 24 April 2006 at 06:28 PM.]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 25 Apr 2006 4:26 am

Skynyrd was not and is not "regional", IMO. I have lived in widely diverse areas of the country in the last 35 years, from New England to San Diego and many spots in between - Skynyrd defined southern rock wherever I was. I tend to think that Hollywood may not the best vantage point on the "wider American Culture", at least in what I call "the heartland".

On "What is the Peavey sound?" - these days, Peavey has several distinctly recongnizable tones, to my ears. There's the early more midranged-out-tube-Fender-style sound, actually not so far from the Boogie sound, IMO. Vintage, Classic, Deuce, Mace, and so on. Hartley writes that he started out modeling Leo Fender - this is the way most of them started - especially Marshall and Boogie. Then there's the Peavey country sound, its bread and butter for a long time - progressively cleaner and more solid state. This is a totally consistent extension of the Fender-Musicman thread of amps - Leo liked country music, and the amp distortion was a result of the technology of the period. Fender was trying to make clean-sounding amps - note the progression from tweed to brown/white to blackface to Silverface. Now there's the Classic 30/50 and Delta Blues style sound, again a bit more midranged out - rock, blues, modern country, etc. And now there is a more hard rock thread represented by amps like the Triumph to 5150. I'm not saying everybody should like it, but there is a set of definable Peavey sounds, the same way Mesa has evolved from just Boogies to include Lone Stars, Mavericks, Dual Rectifiers, and so on.

To me, amps are just a platform - I'm more concerned with build and component quality, and the classic Peavey amps are first rate here. If that's good and the amp has basically the correct design for what the music calls for, one can always go in an monkey around with the parameters and tweak to taste, at least with the older amps. To get "my tone", I often have to do that. Back to "What is the Peavey tone"? Well, to me, it's a good basic tone that can be modified the same way as people mod 70s and later Fenders and Marshalls, which were often pretty harsh out-of-the-box. To me, you make your own tone - the concept of "get a tone the amp gives me" implies that somebody or something gives the player his tone. It's just one factor.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 25 Apr 2006 5:27 am

"Back to "What is the Peavey tone"?"

But can you point to a recording and say "there - THAT'S what a Peavey sounds like."??

Most platers (6 stringers, anyway) recognize typical Twin Reverb or Plexi Marshall tones.

Where's the example that sets Peavey apart?

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 25 Apr 2006 7:00 am

Who really cares what sets them (PEAVEY) apart?

These amps do what they do.. period.

Why keep score of who uses what?

Enlighten me why this is important..

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 25 Apr 2006 10:10 am

But can you point to a recording and say "there - THAT'S what a Peavey sounds like."??

What you seem to be arguing here is that there needs to be a single well known rock example for there to be a "unique Peavey sound", like "Beatles with a Vox" or "Hendrix-Clapton-etc. with a Marshall". I disagree - that's a marketing-perception thing, and has nothing to do with the sound. I think we all agreed right at the start that the classic Peaveys were not well represented in "rock icon" arsenals.

I argue that the southern rock examples I gave, the majority of traditional country players over the last 30-35 years, rockers using the EVH amps, and plenty of modern country players use or have used Peavey gear. Outside of those areas, great players like Big Jack Johnson, Johnny Clyde Copeland, and Phil Upchurch are high profile blues/jazz players that have used Peavey gear - guitars and amps - over the years. I already gave an example of a record by Big Jack. Listen to "Texas Tornado" by Johnny Copeland, and any of the cool funk/jazz stuff by Phil Upchurch in the 80s or early 90s. I opened up for both Big Jack and Johnny during that period - they sounded great. My point is that the classic Peavey amps are versatile, well-built, and can be easily modified to taste. What else do you want? These are electronic amplifiers, not hand-crafted Stradivari.

BTW, I know lots of Fender players that hate Boogies as much as they hate Peaveys - in fact, I hear the same complaints - midrangey, honky, and so on. But Mesa has a better cachet among the established rock player crowd. I think it's as much cultural as anything - Petaluma, CA vs. Meridian MS.

It is also my opinion that guitar players tend to be pretty conservative and shun really new ideas - that's after 39 years of six-stringing myself. Look at what we play - mostly Teles, Strats, Les Pauls, Gibson-style archtops and their clones-variations through Fender, Marshall, Vox amps and their tonal clones-variations. Hum-ridden and honky-sounding high-impedance pickups into high-impedance tube amps. Look what happened to Les Paul's Personal and Recording models, which had a very crystal clear and nice sound even with long cable runs into bloody near any amp - totally rejected. Of course, there are exceptions, but this traditional approach has totally dominated the market for a long time. This is about perception of sound, not sound, IMO.