Twin and Deluxe comparo

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 12 Nov 2005 4:19 pm

Keith, would you say that the Cannabis Rex sounds loud and efficient to you? Like a JBL? The efficiency rating of 102 seems pretty good. I'm interested.

Pete, I was always afraid of those EV's because of that GIANT magnet and gravity's strong pull on it. My JBL loaded Deluxe is already kind of heavy for a small amp. I never really got to know that EV speaker, but there seem to be a lot of steel and guitar players who just love them. I've heard that the EV Force is actually a great sounding steel speaker. It looks a good deal lighter.

The thing that just kills me every time is how dramatically louder my Deluxe is with that JBL D120 compared to a stock Fender speaker. It seems like the power is more than doubled with the JBL.

Since this thread is a comparison of the Twin and Deluxe, it seems that the real tonal issue has a lot to do with the midrange. The Deluxe has a fixed midrange resistor of 6.8k. The Twin has a 10k audio pot there. That means that to get the midrange voicing of the deluxe, you'd need to put the Twin's midrange knob up around like 8 or so (since it's an audio taper pot). The Twin can give you a lot more scoop. You could always change that 6.8k resistor in the Deluxe to something like 3k to achieve more of the steel guitar scoop. I've seen some people disable the tremolo and put a midrange pot in one of those places.

Someone commented on how the 6V6 may be a more midrangey sounding tube. I'm guessing that notion came from the heavy midrange voicing of the 6V6 amps like a Princeton or Deluxe Reverb. I've actually found the 6V6 to be a very sweet and fat sounding tube, just not that powerful. I've considered building an amp that uses a quartet of 6V6's to get about 45 watts or so. There's a different kind of breakup to a 6V6 that's very cool sounding and different than a 6L6.

I read somewhere that Lloyd Green used a JBL loaded Deluxe Reverb (blackface) for recording until he switched to Twins in the later '60s.

Nice thread. Two of the greatest amps on the planet. Here we are 40+ years later and they're still unbeatable.

Brad

Mark Fasbender · Post by **Mark Fasbender** » 17 Nov 2005 4:57 am

" Two of the greatest amps on the planet. Here we are 40+ years later and they're still unbeatable."

Right on the money. My live tele rig consists of a BF twin and BF deluxe at the same run through a matchless A-B Y box with tube and transformer ( custom built by matchless) and the sound of those two amps together is awesome. The tone is everything I want and more. Something about the way 2 amps combine to create a tone is really nice.
Not the easiest rig to cart around but to me it is worth it.

------------------
Got Twang ?

Mark

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 17 Nov 2005 11:25 am

For a Deluxe Reverb, what other 12" speaker(s) would you guys reccomended for something between the stock speaker (high ice-pick in the ear factor) and the EVM-12L (now I can't turn the amp up past 2 without it being too loud, and it weighs a ton, but it sounds alot better).
Maybe something that isn't too treble-ee, but you can still get the volume knob up to the 4-6 range, and the reverb-tray can still fit in the back cuz the speaker isn't as huge as the EVM, but it still sounds like the EVM?
[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 17 November 2005 at 11:26 AM.]

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 17 Nov 2005 2:41 pm

Pete, I've heard good things about the Tone Tubby Hempcone speakers. From what I've heard people say, it fits your description of what you're after.

Brad

Kevin Ruddell · Post by **Kevin Ruddell** » 17 Nov 2005 3:26 pm

Is the current Fender Twin the same design as the older Blackface or Silverface Fender ones, or is it a newer PCB with tubes attached design ?

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 17 Nov 2005 3:52 pm

PCB, tubes, based on the '65 Twin. Not a bad sounding amp. The biggest negatives are the difficulty of working on a PCB amp. Much has been written about the benefits of upgrading the factory tubes and the factory bias settings. But the few times that I have played one of these reissues in a backline I have been satisfied.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 17 Nov 2005 7:27 pm

Tryu a Weber Ferro Max, like the one that Geoff has in his Deluxe! It beat my 1965 Deluxe with a JBL hands down for tone. Also the Celstion Vintage 30 is awesome for tone!

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 18 Nov 2005 9:53 am

I sent my description to Ted Weber, and he replied:

"For that amp with steel, I would consider the ceramic California 12 with aluminum dome if you are always going to play clean."

Anybody using this speaker?

Thanks in advance fro any "feedback" (pun intended).

~pb

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 19 Nov 2005 7:24 am

I had one in an amp I did for Keith Holder. Fine JBL tone, if that is what you want. It was in his Polytone. He took it out and went back to the original speaker.

I just did the EV clone (Delta Pro 12) in a Hot Rod Deluxe yesterday. It was great. Bass as solid as a rock and moving lots of air. Very warm tone on the highs and lows. A really even speaker, IMHO. I think my restored Deluxe Reverb I just did is going to get the other one I have here in stock!

[This message was edited by Ken Fox on 19 November 2005 at 07:27 AM.][This message was edited by Ken Fox on 19 November 2005 at 07:28 AM.]

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 19 Nov 2005 10:41 am

O.K. I used the Deluxe with the EVM-12L at an "at volume" rehearsal last night, and it sounded pretty great. I was pushing the front of the Deluxe with a Seymore Duncan Pickup Booster with an added gain of about 16db, using the Normal channel with an outboard reverb (I currently think there is something wrong with the Reverb channel of this amp, because the Normal channel sounds way better tonally, and also sounds louder to me).
This amp seems so heavey (with the EVM) for a Deluxe.

So looking at the Weber website, I see the Michigan series:
https://weberspeakerscom.secure.powweb.com/weber/

Anyone tried these speaks for a Deluxe or Twin?

Also, (if you could sum it up in as few words as possible) what are the main percieved difference between Alnico vs Ceramic (besides alnico seems to be twice the price), and Aluminum vs Paper Dustcap?

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 19 November 2005 at 10:45 AM.]

Kevin Ruddell · Post by **Kevin Ruddell** » 21 Nov 2005 3:28 pm

Ken ; what's the difference between your Eminence Delta Pro and the plain vanilla Eminence Delta ... other than fifty bucks that is . I guess maybe the pressed steel frame as opposed to the the cast frame.
I have the Delta LF speaker in a cabinet for bass and was pretty impressed with it[This message was edited by Kevin Ruddell on 22 November 2005 at 05:45 PM.]