Noise Gate & Recording...who uses one?

Joe Alterio · From: Irvington, Indiana

Hi all,

I am starting once again to do some recording at home via my 4-track recorder and/or my computer (using Cool Edit Pro). On any notes that I sustain and "bring up" with the volume pedal, it tends to increase the amount of "hum" that comes from the pedal steel.

I recall this problem in the past with my Carter (George L humbuckers), but now it is more critical that I fix it. I have a Zum with Lawrence 710s. My guess is that a noise gate is the solution.

For all those out there who record at home, do you use a noise gate and, if so, which one do you use?

Also....is a noise gate pretty standard equipment for the pros in the recording studio, or are the studios simply designed to eliminate any and all types of electrical interference with the pickups?

Thanks,

Joe

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

If you have hum problems, I don't think the nose gate will eliminate that. You are going to have to find the source of the hum and elminate it there, not try to cover it up.

Will Holtz · From: San Francisco, California, USA

As Jack said, you are going to have to find the source and eliminate it. Using a noise gate will probably only make the hum more noticable as it will no longer be a constant noise, but instead will jump in and out as notes are hit.

Joe Alterio · From: Irvington, Indiana

Well...

Here's what I know. It is not the computer, there are no flourescent lights, and there is nothing else connected to the outlet I run to. I have tried other outlets and rooms in the house, and there is always a buzz from the steel. As I said, this was the same when I had my Carter a few years ago. It is definitely not the amp....I get the same with any of my amps, and only when the guitar is plugged into the amp(s). I use only one amp at a time, so it is not a ground loop issue.

Perhaps all guitars will have some hum from the pickups, humbucker or not? That's my guess from my experience. If it is the pickup, then, that is where I figured the noise gate would help, as I would have the guitar signal run into the noise gate and *then* into the volume pedal. Seems that should work.....no?

Or am I just being to picky again!?

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

A noise gate works on different (higher) frequencies than hum. I have a Rocktron rack preamp that has the "Hush" circuit built in (noise gate)for the overdrive channel, but it won't do a thing for hum.

Hum can be a bad guitar cable, poor grade cable, an unshielded volume pedal, an effects device in the chain, etc.

Plug the guitar directly into the amp and see if you have hum. And/or plug a different guitar into the amp and see if you have hum with that guitar (e.g. an electric guitar) plugged in.

Joe Alterio · From: Irvington, Indiana

I also see there are things called "hum eliminators".....maybe that is more what I would need? Pricey, though

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/d=tp?q=hum+eliminator

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

Joe,
You can try running a ground wire from the ground on your input ( the tip is hot, and the ring is the ground on your jack ) to the changer .....If that doesn't work, you can also check to see if there is a light dimmer in the room where you are playing ....This will also give you hum ...If you can plug a guitar into the same amp and get no hum, than there is a good bet that it's your pedal steel that's causing the problem....You can also try turning the pedal steel at different angles to the amp, and also closer or further away from the amp ....Sometimes your steel will act as an antenna expecially when it's close to a transformer in an amplifier and will cause noize problems.....Give it a shot ....Jim

Jerry Roller · From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

What James said about turning the guitar around to get the pickup further from the amp and also while I am definitely no expert on this problem I have heard that just having a computer in the room where the steel and amp is can cause hum so you might check out that possibility. Maybe try with the computer turned off and maybe unplugged to see if that could be the problem. If it is you can go from there.
Jerry

Joe Alterio · From: Irvington, Indiana

Thanks guys.....I have tried all of these things, and I think it is definitely something to do with the wiring in my house impacting the pickups on my various guitars.

I have tried moving the steel around, unplugging all electronics in the room, hanging the guitar upside down off the ceiling (j/k!), trying different cables, trying different guitars.....there is always slight hum, and it is not the amplifier's own hum.

Again, you will only hear it when the volume pedal is down between halfway and full-open. I just would prefer that when sustaining notes while recording that any extraneous noise is not picked up.

Certainly I can't be the only one.....right?

Dick Wood · From: Springtown Texas, USA

Joe,I have experienced the same hum problem at a couple of clubs.I solved it by using one of those ground lift plugs.Hum completely went away.

A word of caution though...I would be very careful when doing that and using a microphone at the same time as it may bite you.Test it out before touching your lips to it.

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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

A noise gate only eliminates noise when there's no, or just a little, signal being produced. It would be totally ineffective at the volume pedal settings you mention.

You'll need to reveal how you've got everything hooked up for me to give you more precise help, but my first guess would be a bad cord.

Joe Alterio · From: Irvington, Indiana

Well, it isn't a ground lift issue as I've tried that. As mentioned in my previous post, it happens with every cord I have and every guitar I have.

Just so I understand.....are all of you able to plug your pedal steel directly into your amplifiers and have absolutely NO noise at all?!? Not even just a bit of "hum"?

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I can plug my Franklin with Lawrence 710 pickups and using a hilton volume pedal, into my rack amp or a Nashville 1000 or a Nashville 112 and there is no hum.

Ben Slaughter · From: Madera, California

Does your guitar hum when your computer is on? More specifically when you computer monitor is on? Monitors can cause nasty hum in pickups.

I solved the problem by getting a wireless mouse, so I can move the guitar away from the monitor and still hit "record."

Actually, you have to be careful with a wireless mouse and keyboard, they can cause interference too.

Joe Alterio · From: Irvington, Indiana

It must be the wiring in my house then....I've had it with two different pedal steels, and with my electric guitars as well.

I am just surprised that no one else has experienced this. That, or my ears are just too sensitive!

Joe

Dick Wood · From: Springtown Texas, USA

Joe,I just want to be sure we are on the same page.The ground lift on most amplifiers is virtually useless and that is not what I'm referring to.

Have you used a ground lift plug where the ground pin is isolated?

These can be purchased from any hardware store for around 60 cents. If you've tried that then I'll shut up.

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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.

Joe Alterio · From: Irvington, Indiana

No...I have not tried that. I will give it a shot! Thanks!

joe

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

A question that hasn't been asked: do you have any effects with wall warts running, and are the warts near your guitar's pickup? Those things can cause a lot of hum, especially the cheap generic ones not designed for music.

Joe Alterio · From: Irvington, Indiana

There is hum if I have absolutely nothing else plugged in in the entire room, except the amp. No lights on, no computer running, no nothing....just the guitar and the amp. I have tried in different rooms, using different cables....even different amps and different guitars. That is why I think it is a grounding issue in my house or something.

If this IS the case, can a hum eliminator or noise gate solve the problem?

I am still stymied that no one else has this issue (or maybe, not many here have done home recording to have noticed?). I'm stumped.

Ah well.....when they pay me the big bucks for laying down tracks, I'll worry about it more! It would be nice to figure out a simple fix, though.

Joe

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Try putting a sheet of aluminium foil under you pedal. It might help some. You can also EQ the noise out later if its a straight 60 cycle hum.

I have never seen a noise gate used for what you are talking about in the studio. They are sometimes used as triggers but that is a whole other thing. The last time a saw noise gates used to reduce hum was in stage set ups for guitar players in the 80's. It never worked worth a crap.
I recorded a bunch of stuff with an old single coil Emmons pp and it had plenty of hum. It worked out fine once it was in the track.

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Bob
My Website

Peter Siegel · From: Belmont, CA, USA

It might be the computer or the monitor, and I'd suspect the monitor first.
You might try running an extension cord from your amp to another circuit in your house.
Alternatively if you can eliminate it by running only the amp in the house, start turning stuff on one at a time until you get the hummm. voila. Or go direct?
HTH

Peter

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Do your PC speakers run on a wall wart?
Can you run the guitar and amp in any environment that produces no hum?
Does the reverb setting on the amp affect the hum volume?
Any fluorescent lights on in the house?
Do you share the same pole mounted power transformer as a neighbor? (Blame them...)
Do you live next to a large radio transmitter or nuclear plant?
Just some ideas...

One possible solution is to use (i.e. process) a digital filter at 60 Hz on the .wav file and use the result. DartPro32 has a 60Hz noise filter. Better though to eliminate the hum at the source.

[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 29 September 2005 at 03:26 PM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Joe, are you using a powered pedal? If so, try running a cord right from the guitar to the amp, and see if the hum is still there. (It may be a bad volume pedal,or power supply.) You can get a notch filter, or a high-pass filter to reduce hum, but they're not cheap! Anyhow, with a 710, you shouldn't be getting noticeable hum.

Rex Thomas · From: Thompson's Station, TN

Though maybe not this simple:
Try different volume pedals. When I lived in L.A. I did a session with that old Emmons I used to have, but was noticing lack of power & hummy (was going direct), & there was too much going on to fix it right then though I got thru it. That was an Emmons pedal, & probably the pot was going bad. Next time out (yeah, I was surprised to get called back after that) I brought an old Goodrich I had for years, problem solved. I could play it wide open, no hum.
Probably something else, but worth mentioning anyway.

Franklin · Posted 29 Sep 2005 3:46 pm

Joe.

If you are using a clip on volume pedal, try folding a sheet of Aluminum foil several sheets thick and slide it under the volume pedal covering the entire length and width of the pedal. That should do the trick.

Paul

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