Midi on steel - an example

Larry Beck · Post by **Larry Beck** » 16 Aug 2005 6:35 pm

I had a midi pickup to spare and a slow evening so I took it apart, hacked it a bit and mounted it on my steel.

I documented what I did to serve as a warning for anyone else who might be tempted....
http://pie.midco.net/lbeck27/midi/midi-steel.html

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 16 Aug 2005 8:41 pm

Larry
Thank you for the heads up.

Larry Beck · Post by **Larry Beck** » 17 Aug 2005 4:44 am

Jody,
Seeing your post reminded me. This might work well on a 6 string lap steel assuming I had the chops to play non-pedal. (wrong)

A 6 string lap steel might have wider string spacing so the midi pickup didn't need to be at an angle and could be located closer to the bridge.

Roger Snively · Post by **Roger Snively** » 17 Aug 2005 5:36 am

Larry,
I just typed a long explanation on how I have mine set up and this miserable computer just lost my connection. Give me a call at 740-335-8945 and I'll just tell you how I have mine done. Really works good. I might be able to help. Worth a shot.
Roger

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 17 Aug 2005 10:34 am

I've posted these pics before, so I hope you don't mind seeing them again. The pickup on the E9 neck was made from 2 Rolands that I spent enough time on, that I never want to do that again. This was the 3rd Super Pro off the assembly line (unknown to myself at the time). It appears that I've compromised the collector value.

[This message was edited by chas smith on 17 August 2005 at 11:37 AM.]

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 17 Aug 2005 12:25 pm

Larry; regarding oscillating frequency you stated:

The midi pickup takes it a little bit of time to find that out. How fast it does it is a function of the pickup and the preamps and the software

Does the pickup and system track a slide or a "stringbender" change in real time or does it incurr a delay due to processing time?
Pardon my ignorance, I'm not familiar with MIDI pickups as such and I'm wondering,
does the MIDI pickup give you the ability to turn the steel into another flavor of MIDI synth ?

Larry Beck · Post by **Larry Beck** » 17 Aug 2005 1:18 pm

Ray,
Here's the signal chain as I understand it. If I'm wrong, people will jump in no doubt.

The midi pickup (one per string) senses the vibration and the signal goes to the combination switch/preamp. From there it goes down a 13 pin cable to a unit (Roland/Axon/Yamaha) that changes the analog frequency information to midi data.

for a single note, a midi data stream would have a patch number, note on, and note off code. There are a lot of other data items that can be sent like modulation, velocity, etc.a small computer program does this.

To your question, some patches are like a slide guitar, violin, fretless bass, etc. They work like you would expect the real instrument to. Other patches don't make continuously variable pitch changes. (Imagine slide piano)

This is a function of the synth patch or sound. As such it could be changed, but it might sound weird.

The latency (time lag) doesn't seem to effect slides. I only really notice it on bass strings where the string vibrates slower and it takes a few more micro-seconds to interpret this.

Doug Rolfe · Post by **Doug Rolfe** » 17 Aug 2005 4:05 pm

Charles, since you are using two Rolands pickups, does that mean you need two processors also?

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 17 Aug 2005 5:40 pm

for a single note, a midi data stream would have a patch number, note on, and note off code. There are a lot of other data items that can be sent like modulation, velocity, etc.a small computer program does this

Actually patch number (MIDI Program Change command) would not be sent with each note. That would be something you choose before you play a song or a part of a song.
Velocity is part of every note-on command.[This message was edited by b0b on 18 August 2005 at 12:59 PM.]

Larry Beck · Post by **Larry Beck** » 17 Aug 2005 6:06 pm

Right. I should have looked it up before I posted. patch information lasts till a patch change is sent. and velocity # is part of the note on message. I don't type very fast but I can out type my brain on occasion.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 17 Aug 2005 9:08 pm

Doug, yes, 2 Axons and a blender. When I was having a lot of difficulty tracking the bar, (and it really doesn't like the pedals) I called Axon. They told me that the Axon expected a typical guitar tuning and that it shouldn't work at all with what I'm tuned to and especially moving the bar around. (Gee, that demonstration at the NAMM show where the player played more notes, in one set, than I play in a year, certainly was impressive)

Not what I wanted to hear, still, I got it to work well enough for what I wanted it for, that being, single notes, being "chased" by my samples and repsonsive to a little "bar movement".

Doug Rolfe · Post by **Doug Rolfe** » 18 Aug 2005 2:02 pm

Thanks Charles for the info. I'm still considering it. I have a 12 string uni.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 18 Aug 2005 10:33 pm

Doug, you might talk to Mike Johnstone, he has a 12 string Uni with a MIDI pickup that he played out and he's a very knowledgeable guy, on a lot of topics..

Doug Rolfe · Post by **Doug Rolfe** » 19 Aug 2005 5:42 am

Thanks for the info. I'll try and contact him.