Roland's VS 1680 Studio Workstation

Mike Dennis · Post by **Mike Dennis** » 28 Jul 2005 8:03 am

Roland’s VS 1680 Studio Worksatation

Would like your input on this machine, which debuted in 1997 or so.
Tell you the truth I have had nothing but a hard time getting a quality
sound from this machine. I’m about to give up on it, even my friend Jimmy’s
Boss recorder sounds better. I guess Boss offers real analog EQ, which I think
is the better way to go. I’ve got really good microphones and have even used
tube pre amps. The problem comes with recording Dobro, steel guitar and other
electric guitar sounds. I can spend hours recording and not achieve the sound I’m looking for. This was never a problem on my old Tascam 8 track analog cassette recorder. All I had to do was run the guitar tracks just a bit into the red, and the sound was always there. All this monkeying around takes away from the creative process.
Maybe the way to go is a hard disk recorder using a Mackie analog board.

Is it just me.. or is there really something lacking in the design of this unit?
I’m finding the midrange sweep on the EQ to be weak as a far as being able to wha up a vocal or instrument.. compressors hard to use and other effects the same.

Basically it sounds good if you record a singer playing solo on guitar.
Once you add all the other instruments, everything melts into a pool of sound
that’s there but you can’t hear it clearly.
I do like the built in mastering studio it helps somewhat.
I can’t find any reviews comparing the sound quality of all these different hard disc recorders.

You experience and suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Mike
[This message was edited by Mike Dennis on 28 July 2005 at 09:43 AM.]

seldomfed · Post by **seldomfed** » 28 Jul 2005 9:05 am

hi Mike,
go to http://www.vsplanet.com/ and ask there. You'll find more answers there I think.

I use Akai DPS24, but lurk on vsplanet since there are similar topics regarding recording techniques with these sorts of systems.

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Chris Kennison
Colorado

Robert Parent · Post by **Robert Parent** » 28 Jul 2005 9:22 am

Never a problem here with getting a great sound with my VS1680. The vsplanet.com is a great resource as mentioned above. For the most part I record my PSG direct through a Roland GP100 and my mandolin via small condensor mics. The VS preamps are not great but work fine if you keep the gain close to unity. The best input chain is a pre into a DA converter into the digital input of the VS.

Compression in the VS is after the A to D conversion and is useless if you are looking for an analog compression effect.

Channel 8 has a Hi-Z input for things like standard guitar but it does not work great for acoustic pickups and PSG pickups as its impedance is not high enough to prevent high frequency roll off.

Even with the above in mind you can get a fairly nice PSG sound if you use the Fender Twin modeling with your PSG direct into the Hi-Z input.

Mixing is an art of sorts. Every instrument needs to fit into a space within the song. How you place tracks, instrument voicings, vocals, and the frequence range of each all play an important part of creating a song. You will find what sounds good on a bandstand may not be what sounds good in a multitrack mix. Experiment and in time you will find what works and doesn't. The KISS concept works well here.

In general less EQ is more. In other words if you need very much EQ you really need to work on the sound that you are capturing. Change mics, placement, pre amps, guitars, room acoustics, etc, etc... Garbage in equals garbage out. My bet is that you are for the first time hearing what your room or equipment setup really sounds like.
[This message was edited by Robert Parent on 28 July 2005 at 10:44 AM.]

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 28 Jul 2005 10:13 am

Get a good book on mixing. As mentioned above, its a craft of its own.[This message was edited by Tom Gorr on 28 July 2005 at 11:15 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 28 Jul 2005 11:40 am

All I had to do was run the guitar tracks just a bit into the red, and the sound was always there.

You can't go into the red at all on a digital recorder like the VS-1680. It will sound really bad. Keep your levels low.

Mike Dennis · Post by **Mike Dennis** » 28 Jul 2005 12:12 pm

I'm aware not to run into the red on digital equipment. I find the microphone line level inputs on the VS offer very little room to find the sweet spot. One spec more or less gain in either direction can miss the sweet spot. Another feature I hate about the machine.

I think my problem is with recording technique. In the past, I have been complemented on the sonic quality of mixes I have done using my older equipment.
Most people can’t believe my first CD was recorded on an 8 track Tascam cassette recorder. A recorder I miss very much actually, even with all the worry over
whether a tape would eventually stretch or ware out. Usually they never did.
I need plug and play equipment that is more musician friendly.

Would like to hear more about some of the newer machines out there.
[This message was edited by Mike Dennis on 28 July 2005 at 01:16 PM.]

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 28 Jul 2005 3:28 pm

One thing you might consider is an inexpensive tube preamp for your mics. or anything else coming into the unit- I find that you can improve things a great deal by sweetening the signal a bit before it hits the recorder.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 28 Jul 2005 6:01 pm

Digital recording IS NOT THE SAME as Analog recording. Many great Analog Enginners had to make changes to understand the digital domain.

First off..you use -6db as zero reference rather than 0DB compared to Analog recording.
If you are in the Red with Digital you are saturated.

The front end preamps of probably all early Digital machines leave a lot to be desired. Perhaps a Tube preamp,even a cheap one, will yield better results.

I cannot agree more that reading and studying the art of Digital mixing, EQ, effects etc.. will aid in getting very good results. You can bring forward many of the common principles from Analog recording but the Digital Domain requires a different mindset to the big picture. You are not dealing with gentle voltage slopes anymore, you are now dealing in specific voltage steps.

Even though your 1680 is almost 10 years old, it will produce excellent rssults , but it is not a tape machine and should not be treated as such. Your tape machine as mentioned was developed at the end of the tape era, your digital machine was developed at the beginning of the digital era...

Once you get a bit more aclamated to the digital domain you will be quite satisfied...

good luck

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 28 July 2005 at 07:10 PM.]

Mike Dennis · Post by **Mike Dennis** » 29 Jul 2005 3:56 am

Okay I can experiment with setting the ATT at -6db and see what kind of results I get
when using the input gain level.

I had been very happy in the past with the editing feature these machines offer.

Generally when I master a mix using this machine I can get quality results using some analog equipment. I'll use the Roland's mastering studio, then set up a chain running the mix into a Sound Performance Laboratory Vitalizer unit and then again through my Art TPS II Tube Preamp to beef up the gain. This works very nicely and helps to clarify the sound of each instrument.

I know some people like to keep everything in the digital domain but it doesn't work for me.

Still I find it hard work trying to get an edge on guitar and Dobro sounds while recording these instruments.

I am going to test the New Boss machine after I finish my current project. The design of using an analog preamp & EQ before digital conversion sounds like it may offer less tweaking time and more plug and play fun. Maybe :>)

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 31 Jul 2005 6:48 pm

I just got this great new book called "Roland VS Recorder Power!" I don't know how many tricks you've tried, but this book is chocked full of recording ideas I would never have imagined. You can get it at the VS-Planet web site.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Mike Dennis · Post by **Mike Dennis** » 7 Aug 2005 8:29 am

Thanks for the tips. I think I'm going to try using one of those small Mackie mixers as
a microphone preamp when recording Dobro and guitar. Then I'll use the FX loop on the mixer to add just a bit of compression before recording.