2 Channel Fender Silverface Question...

Shaan Shirazi · Post by **Shaan Shirazi** » 1 Apr 2005 8:54 am

Why is it when I patch an input from the dry channel of my Vibrolux into and input of the wet channel I can then use all the tone controls on the amp face no matter which channel I'm plugged in to?

Does the dry channel act like another pre-amp?

Why does the volume of the dry channel seem to affect the reverb?

Am I doing any potential damage to the amp or speakers?

It sounds really cool with the reverb and the cranked and the vibrato on.

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The Pickin' Paniolo

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 1 Apr 2005 9:14 am

Not a problem, but usually results in a bad sound! The problem is that the dry channel is 180 degrees out of phase with the wet channel, resulting in a severe loss of bass. When doing this you are merely running the guitar thu two preamps. There is a simple mod, a one wire move, that will put both channels in phase and also add reverb and tremolo to both channels.

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 1 Apr 2005 11:59 am

Oh Ken,Be a friend for life and tell us how to make this mod pleeease.I play steel through one channel and lead through the other..I'll put you in my will.
P.J.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 1 Apr 2005 8:15 pm

Nice to mod one channel with a 56 K slope resistor in place of the 100K, makes for a nice steel channel. I will email you the mod!

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 1 Apr 2005 9:19 pm

I have this mod on my Deluxe, and run one channel compressed, one not. It is a great mod! JP

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 2 Apr 2005 6:16 am

Being a dual purpose player I would also like the mod specs if it isn't a problem. Thanks

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 2 Apr 2005 10:09 am

Me, too, please!

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Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 2 Apr 2005 10:23 am

I am assuming that Ken is talking about the "torres" mod--something that is criticized by some. I have done this on my Daul Showman Rev and my Deluxe Reverb and I have no complaints. In case Ken doesn't get to this for a while, I am sending a large gif of the procedure to you guys.
Warning, of course---this stuff will hurt you bad if you don't know the proper precautions regarding working inside your amp.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 2 Apr 2005 10:26 am

I used to use my old Vibroverb sometimes at home to practice. It doesn't have enough headroom or power for gigging. I made a cable with a female RCA jack on one end, and a male 1/4" plug on the other. Plug the female RCA into the reverb return cable( I think!), and the 1/4" plug into the non-reverb channel. It gives a nice control of the mix and tone of the reverb. At least that's how I remember doing it. I'll have to get it out of the closet and take a look to be sure. I haven't used it for years.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 2 Apr 2005 3:14 pm

Well, I am not sure if Torres was the guy who came up with it. It is an easy, reversable mod. About the the same way they did reverb on both channels in the 90's Vibrasonic. I sent the file to all you guys.

Andy Zynda · Post by **Andy Zynda** » 2 Apr 2005 3:29 pm

Hey Jim Peters!!
Damn! One channel compressed, one not. That's a great idea!!!
Cant wait to give it a try!
Thanks!!
-andy-

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 2 Apr 2005 4:24 pm

Ken, Thanks a bunch for the info.Gonna give 'er a shot.Tell me Buddy,did you get that out of VG mag when Tores was doing a column there? If so, can you tell me what issue? I have bout 15 yrs of back issues.
Thanks again.
P.J.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 2 Apr 2005 4:56 pm

Got it off a guy from the Fender Forum. I was not aware Torres had anything to do with it.

It is an easy mod, just remove a wire and resolder it to a new location! If you do not like reverb on both channel and both channels in phase, you can move it back!

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 2 Apr 2005 5:04 pm

Ken & I have exchanged email on this and neither of us can confirm or deny the Torres connection---I'm the one who made the reference. I have seen "one wire change" two channel reverb mods attributed to Torres on other boards and I assume that this is the one & same mod. Torres is despised by a lot of guitarists out there and I don't know what that's all about. But I have no issues with this simple change. I can't remember where online I found it but it is possible that I also received it some time ago in email from Ken back when he was real helpful getting me started on some simple amp maintenance. This was the first mod I did on any amp and it was as simple as could be once I got oriented and figured out what I was looking at on my chassis.

-----I just realized that the gif drawing of this mod says "drawing by Dan Torres" on it.<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Jon Light on 02 April 2005 at 05:08 PM.]</p></FONT>

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 2 Apr 2005 7:14 pm

Thats what made me wonder if it came from VG mag, cause Torres used to have a column in VG.He was a little too technical for me to understand.I never had much trouble understanding Gerald Weber though.I've done several of his mods.
But thanks again for your info Ken..
P.J.

Casey Lowmiller · Post by **Casey Lowmiller** » 2 Apr 2005 7:43 pm

Can I get the Gif of the mod too???

Thanks!!!

Casey

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Known Coast to Coast as
"The Man with The Plan"

Fender Pedal 800, Fender Champion & a Homemade Double-neck!

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 3 Apr 2005 6:07 am

Casey, I sent it this morning.

Alan Kirk · Post by **Alan Kirk** » 3 Apr 2005 6:47 am

I've heard the negative stuff about Torres, too, and didn't know what it was all about until I sent Torres an email about buying a part from them and got the most ridiculous answer imaginable -- they told me that the courtesy AC outlets on the backs of Fender amps are "illegal" and therefore they didn't sell the newer three-wire, grounded versions of the outlet (which I wanted to buy to replace an old two-wire one).

I'm sure that some of their mods are legit and work fine. But there is so much negative feedback about them all over the web that a person should be cautious--and let someone like Ken Fox try out the mod first!

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Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 3 Apr 2005 7:13 am

They actually have a shop and do mods. I have read some real interseting things about their "craftsmanship" over on the Weber board. The purist consider their work as hack work. Personally I have never seen any of it and cannot attest to that. As you say, a lot of negative comments on the web. This mod differs hardly any from the 90's Vibrasonic amp, with reverb on both channels. This would not qualify as a hack job! This is probably the single most useful mod I have ever seen and done for a Fender two channel, reverb amp!

Shaan Shirazi · Post by **Shaan Shirazi** » 3 Apr 2005 10:35 am

That's funny, the thing I was trying to do was what John Billings described but until I read his post I couldn't get it to work. I'm glad I accidentally discovered the other thing and spawned ths discussion on the "Torres" Mod.

John, you're right. When I patch the reverb out cable into the dry channel the volume and treble knobs modify the reverb sound. I didn't notice a change when I adjusted the bass knob.

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The Pickin' Paniolo

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 3 Apr 2005 11:16 am

It is my experience that the 2 channel mod is maybe better suited for 6 string,because it causes the amp to break up earlier when using both channels. That is why I did it to my Deluxe in the first place. The 1 channel compressed, one not, only works with the mod if the compressor doesn't flip the phase,like my boss. You can do the compressor trick without the amp mod, if the comprssor does flip the phase, like an MXR dynacomp,but only one channel would have reverb.JP

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 3 Apr 2005 11:30 am

Shaan, I think you're right. I don't recall the bass knob doing too much. I used that setup to get a nice mix control, and to back off a bit of the "shimmer" in the reverb. It's been a long time since I used that 64 Vibroverb. I think I'll sell it get new flooring, or remodel the bathroom! JB

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 4 Apr 2005 10:26 am

Ken,

I didn't get your e-mail with the mod...

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Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 4 Apr 2005 12:34 pm

mailto:mrherrick@aol.com

I sent it to the above, fromt he Forum files

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 4 Apr 2005 12:38 pm

Mark--I also sent you the same thing, Saturday. Didn't get it?