Miked" vs "Line-Out"

Jack Abraham · From: Oklahoma

I recently purchased a Nashville 112 - I am really enjoying the amp. Last night, I tried something different with my setup. Typically, I mike my amp (with a SM57); I decided to try the "line-out" from the amp to see how it would sound.

The sound was incredible - everyone raved about it being the best sound I have ever had. If you are a recent owner of a N112, I would like to encourage you to try the direct line-out rather than miking the amp.

Technically, I suspect that this is probably a "no-brainer". I was just really surprised by the significant difference between the two methods with this amp as compared to other amps I have used.

Paul Osbty · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

It could be that the line out is a signal after the preamp but before the power amp. This would give you your tone and control, but minus the power amp and speakers only.

Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

The only problem with lining out is you don't get the sound of the speaker. Lining out is nice for the volume aspect,because of the feedback issue, using a mike. I woulkd say it's a toss-up.

David Doggett · Posted 31 Dec 2004 9:46 am

In theory going directly into the PA should capture your tone better than when a microphone is inserted in the sound/signal chain. No microphone reproduces sound perfectly. So line-out may work fine for solid state amps, which have rather sterile sounding power amps. With my Fender tube amps, the power tubes add to the tube harmonics I love, and the 15" speaker voice is also something I want to keep in my tone. I consider the entire amp and speaker(s) as part of my instrument, and I want it all miked.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 31 December 2004 at 09:54 AM.]

Todd Pertll · From: Chicago, Illinois, USA

I agree Jack, I try to run direct whenever I can.

I love to see the look on soundmen's faces when I tell them that I want to run direct. They act like they have never heard a guitar player request it before.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

As David Doggett says, with a "line out", you lose all the "warmth" the cabinet and speaker provide, not to mention the "coloring" of the output stage (if you're using tubes). With a mike, the board is "hearing" exactly what you're hearing. Not so using just the preamp of your rig. I can assure you that the real "tone fanatics" (those guys that gotta have JBL's) wouldn't even consider using a "line out"!

If we really wanted "hi-fi", we'd all be using Scott, Fisher, and McIntosh amps.

Duane Dunard · From: Troy, MO. U.S.A.

I mostly agree with David. To mic the amp gives me a little control on my musical signature. The sound man may have differn't ideas as to what sounds good, but I simply have to live with that.

Timmy Witt · From: Rocky Face, Georgia, USA

I engineered a recording where the steel player was using a Peavey Nashville 1000, run direct, and the line out had alot of hiss. Miked would have sounded a whole lot better. Just my opinion.
Tim

Larry Robbins · From: Fort Edward, New York

Have not tried it out yet but my new Steelking has a line out thats a balanced xlr jack w/ground lift and pre/post eq switch as well as a line out level control.
Ill have to check it out.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

It's my understanding that Lloyd Green mic's his Fender rig in the studio, as he's done forever, over thousands of sessions. If it's good enough for Lloyd, well----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

David and Donny have nailed my opinion exactly; and of course James threw in that little tid bit that sums up "WHY"...
Ricky

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

I have been experimenting with different methods of getting my sound accurately through to the mains. The most accurate reproduction of my tone is by using a mic. And the most accurate tone coming from my amp directly into a room is by getting it off of the floor and relying on the amp for low tones and not the acoustics of the floor. Your prefered mic placement and prefered brand of mic is a factor also. After that, you're at the mercy of the sound man

Paul Osbty · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Jack's original comment was:

The sound was incredible - everyone raved about it being the best sound I have ever had.

So, Jack has more than one option. It's always best to explore options, rather than sticking to one way, and one way only.

Direct and micing BOTH require compensation for weaknesses and strengths. Both are very useable.

John Steele (deceased) · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

The line out on the Nashville 1000 is a peavey EDI, which is post-eq and supposed to simulate the speaker. I've used mine a bit for convenience but was never sure just exactly what was coming out front. Despite assurances from others that it was fine, I was never sure.
Well, 3 weeks ago I did a casino job on a small stage where I was very close to the mains. I could hear them just fine, and I didn't like what I heard one bit. Honky mids, man. As soon as we took a break I miked the amp, and the problem disappeared.
-John

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I really like the sound of my speakers. If I used a direct line, how would I know what tone I was sending to the board? Sure, my SM-57 colors the sound a wee bit, but my speakers color it a lot, and they are what I'm listening to as I play with tones.

I suppose I could turn off the speaker and rely on stage monitors, but does anyone really trust stage monitors to give them the tone that the audience hears in the mains?

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

To me, the speaker is part of the instrument as a whole. That's where the electrons become soundwaves. Speakers are a huge part of the overall warmth and voice of the instrument. I've never liked the direct thing myself, although I've heard some others' direct recordings that sounded pretty nice.

Brad Sarno

Bill C. Buntin · From: Cleburne TX

I prefer mine with the mics too. Unless the sound man fusses with me a bunch about going direct, I insist on the mics. The direct signal makes the sound man happy cause he has more control.

I've been fired because of being stubborn about my stage tone and volume. But who cares. I don't make a living at it anyway so I can afford to have the tone I want and play the way I want.

Gary Jones · From: Mount Vernon, Wa

I guess it all depends on the gig or application. Before I quit playing in 1989 I had been running a stereo rig on stage, using a Roland GP-8 into two amps. The trouble with that kind of set-up is that you have to be real careful about your stage volume. I prefer the natural sound of speakers, as long as you can push the amp volume a little. Miking an amp at lower power levels does not give me the sound I am (or was) looking for, so with that rig I went direct from both amps into the board.
In my home studio (OK, it's a spare bedroom with some gear in it) I have been using a combination of both methods, and then mixing to get the sound I want. With the amount of tracks available with current Pro-Tools and other digital systems it should be no problem to do both in the studio.

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Gary Jones, KLVX
Fessenden S/D-12U
Bunch of cheap guitars
Big ol' pile of half-rebuilt amplifiers

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

As I see it the line out was an improvement, because it was replacing an SM-57,
and they just don't cut it for reproducing anything besides a voice or a partucular style of rock snare drum.

I suspect it was also sending out your EQ also, so the board was getting at least something relatively accurate to mix with.

if you put a good relatively flat charcteristic mic on the 112, like a Sennheiser 421 or most condenser mics,
you would reproduce just what you hear coming from the amp.

Tony Palmer · From: St Augustine,FL

My amp is set up right next to the lead player and I would think miking my amp is going to pick up some of his (loud) sound also.
Wouldn't giving the sound man a direct out with a pure steel sound be better than a "diluted" one?

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

If you give a sound man the opportunity to ruin your tone, he will!

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

Over the years, the experiences I had with sound men is usually a result of their inexperience with how a steel "should" sound. Too many board operators are rock oriented and try to make steel sound like a rock tele. Usually too thin and/or too much mid.
DD

Darvin Willhoite · From: Roxton, Tx. USA

I guess I'm lucky, I raised the sound engineer at the church where I play. He has listened to the steel guitar ever since he was born (maybe even before), and he knows what it should sound like. I play direct through a Digitech 2112 and a Countryman direct box, then the rest is up to him. Judging by my sound on the direct off the board recordings we make, he's doing a good job.

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

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